All of the CWC-2 Army Lists are available for free for you to download and print out at home. We'll be updating and adding new lists constantly so keep checking back for any new additions.
We've started with the lists required for our current ranges. There's a list below of the planned army lists and the estimated batch numbers for them.
There is also a Random Points Modifier available which allows you to adjusts the points available to a battlegroup based on historical factors, to give a more realistic pair of opposing forces. Some of the army lists give Special Rules to help/hinder your forces when using this Modifier.
- Random Points Modifier (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfnq9lbovabz54w/RandomPointsModifier.pdf?dl=0)
Indochina 1948-54
- French (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzxway2impztlrm/IndoChinaFrench1948-54.pdf?dl=0)
- Vietminh (https://www.dropbox.com/s/99eox5g9ldg3ztd/IndoChinaVietminh1948-54.pdf?dl=0)
Korean War 1950-53
- Communist States (https://www.dropbox.com/s/j42z6l9wngmowla/KoreanWarCommunistStates1950-53.pdf?dl=0)
- United Nations (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8w3im7io04tu3f9/KoreanWarUnitedNations1950-53.pdf?dl=0)
Vietnam War 1957-75
- American (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dx4lwgqhy93d40a/VietnamAmerican1962-73.pdf?dl=0)
- ANZAC (https://www.dropbox.com/s/aopamg9l41dj5xe/VietnamWarANZAC1965-71.pdf?dl=0)
- North Vietnamese (https://www.dropbox.com/s/14bglqovrkb687u/VietnamNorthVietnamese1957-75.pdf?dl=0)
- South Vietnamese (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hzcwflca7fd44pm/VietnamSouthVietnamese1957-75.pdf?dl=0)
- Viet Cong (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrhm7vqeb9mhucl/VietnamVietCong1957-68.pdf?dl=0)
Arab-Israeli Wars 1956+
- Arab States (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d20wzbfooab8m67/ArabIsraeliArabStates1956-82.pdf?dl=0)
- Israeli (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pk3ifwynx9oz9b/ArabIsraeliIDF1948-2000.pdf?dl=0)
Indo-Pakistan War 1965-71
- Indian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/diy1yktix3u23ln/IndoPakistanIndian1965-71.pdf?dl=0)
- Pakistani (https://www.dropbox.com/s/kykc1awql6x2ej6/IndoPakistanPakistani1965-71.pdf?dl=0)
Africa Conflicts
- Suez Crisis, 1956 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/un81xymcmq6xk8h/SuezCrisisAngloFrench1956.pdf?dl=0)
- African Communist Insurgencies, 1961-74 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mymm07ucwm2vo6p/AfricanCommunistInsurgencies1961-74.pdf?dl=0)
- Portuguese Colonial Wars, 1961-74 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4dldxnj92tsvnxn/PortugueseColonialWars1961-74.pdf?dl=0)
- Ogaden War Ethiopian, 1977-78 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/556wmpr9azn8l3n/OgadenWarEthiopian1977-78.pdf?dl=0)
- Ogaden War Somalian, 1977-78 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlt169eokx94c34/OgadenWarSomali1977-78.pdf?dl=0)
Cold War 1946-90
- Australian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/at5k43e0del25o9/ColdWarAustralia1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Austrian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/33wc0j6f2fl8c1p/ColdWarAustrian1955%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Belgian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2ithdm8kwgiz0e/ColdWarBelgian1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- British (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ulfea6efexpoy6/ColdWarBritish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Bundeswehr (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl1fk4dn7bgi206/ColdWarBundeswehr1955%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Canadian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/06o7nwl0g014zbg/ColdWarCanadian1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Chinese (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rg0woom9s250vk0/ColdWarChinesePLA1949-2000.pdf?dl=0)
- Danish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9b5qgn2frmv1pg/ColdWarDanish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Finnish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/c20i2wir9qfne4t/ColdWarFinnish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- French (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2zz4z7jfkbr0opy/ColdWarFrench1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Netherlands (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqj9c1m3qxvpttt/ColdWarNetherlands1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Norwegian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2q6ykqnx365x86/ColdWarNorwegian1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- South Korean (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9troveg7lsnledh/ColdWarRepublicKorea1948-2000.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet Union (https://www.dropbox.com/s/r83i1wtxrnjjrae/ColdWarSovietUnion1946-90.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet Naval Infantry (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ruimv6u97uzi1g9/ColdWarSovietNavalInfantry1961%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet VDV (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8vgod8zf11xxdz/ColdWarSovietVDV1945-90.pdf?dl=0)
- Swedish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ziq9hfatiae7qv/ColdWarSwedish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- United States (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rqwnjpavabu6kt/ColdWarUnitedStates1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- United States Marine Corps (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmgpp7gy2yizkg0/ColdWarUSMarineCorps1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Warsaw Pact, Grade 1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gy0zxqwvthp4zjz/ColdWarWarsawPactGrade1-1946-90.pdf?dl=0)
- Warsaw Pact, Grade 2 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfyd5215aois3em/ColdWarWarsawPactGrade2-1946-90.pdf?dl=0)
Soviet-Afghan War 1979-89
- Mujahideen (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uiyjny4tmagrfkk/Soviet-AfghanMujahideen1979-89.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet (https://www.dropbox.com/s/iemtt8xnynztand/Soviet-AfghanSoviet1979-89.pdf?dl=0)
Falklands War 1982
- Argentine (https://www.dropbox.com/s/msjulyglya5s4dl/FalklandsWarArgentine1982.pdf?dl=0)
- British (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0m4ok5njoq6hljj/FalklandsWarBritish1982.pdf?dl=0)
Iran-Iraq Wars 1946-2003
- Iran (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jbs8wsh65dpqxr/Iran-IraqWarsIran1946-2000.pdf?dl=0)
- Iraq (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5gxdy8lblsrw39/Iran-IraqWarsIraq1947-2003.pdf?dl=0)
PLANNED LISTS
Batch 1 - COMPLETE!
COLD WAR
- Soviet Naval Infantry - DONE!
- US Marine Corp - DONE!
MIDDLE EAST
Afghanistan:
- Mujahideen - DONE!
- Soviet Army - DONE!
Batch 2 - COMPLETE!
EUROPE
NATO:
- Belgians - DONE!
- Canadian - DONE!
- Danish - DONE!
- Dutch - DONE!
- Norwegians - DONE!
Neutrals/Non-aligned:
- Austrian - DONE!
- Finland - DONE!
- Sweden - DONE!
MIDDLE EAST
Arab Israeli Wars:
- Arab States - DONE!
- Israeli Defence Force - DONE!
ASIA PACIFIC
- South Korean - DONE!
- Australia - DONE!
- China - DONE!
- India - DONE!
- Pakistan - DONE!
Batch 3 - Complete!
MIDDLE EAST
- Iran (Iran Iraq War) - DONE!
- Iraq (Iran Iraq War) - DONE!
- Suez Crisis (British & French) - DONE!
AFRICA
- Ethiopia - DONE!
- Somalia - DONE!
Batch 4
EUROPE
NATO:
- Spanish
- Portuguese
- Italian
- Greek
- Turkey
Neutrals/Non-aligned:
- Ireland (Eire)
- Switzerland
- Yugoslavian
ASIA PACIFIC
- Japan
- Taiwan
- North Korean (1965-2000)
- South Korean (1965-2000)
- Vietnamese (1975-2000)
Batch 5
MIDDLE EAST
- Egyptian
- Libya
- Lebanese Civil War
AFRICA
- Africa Marxist Insurgency - DONE!
- Angolan
- Portuguese Colonial - DONE!
- South African
- Algerian Insurgency
ASIA PACIFIC
- Thai
Batch 6
SOUTH/CENTRAL AMERICA
- Argentine Main Force 1970-1995
- Bolivian Main Force 1970-95
- Brazilian 1970-95
- Chile 1970-95
- Columbian 1970-95
- Cuba 1962 – 95
- Dominican Republic
- Ecuadorian Army 1965-95
- El Salvador 1965-1995
- Guatemalan Army 1960-95
- Honduran Army 1960-1995
- Mexican 1960-2000
- Nicaraguan Army 1970-2000
- Paraguayan Army 1970-1995
- Peruvian Army 1970-1995
- Uruguayan Army 1965-1995
Batch 7
MIDDLE EAST
- Syrian
- Jordanian
OTHER CONFLICTS
Small Wars:
- Grenada (Operation Urgent Fury) – Grenadine v USMC + Caribbean countries
- Panama (Operation Just Cause) – Panama v USMC (War on Drugs)
- Cyprus Crisis (1974) – Greeks, Cypriots, Turks, British
- 'Flash-point Berlin' – British Berlin Brigade (+ US & French) v East German & Soviet
- The Moroccan v Algerian 'Sand Wars' 1962 - with Cuban and Egyptian interventionist forces.
- Sino-Indian 'Border War' 1962 between India and China in the mountains between India and Tibet
- Sand Wars
Lovely! Haven't checked all but the French list for IndoChina wants a Dropbox log in whilst the Viet Minh one is open?
And thanks!
Both Indochina lists downloaded for me without a log in.
Thanks for all these Leon.
Quote from: Gwydion on 22 May 2022, 10:07:28 PMBoth Indochina lists downloaded for me without a log in.
Thanks for all these Leon.
Just tried again and both worked fine :)
Fantastic and very much appreciated. I believe this is a better way to go than hard copy.
Phil
A great way to do this so that they can be updated as required 8) .
Btw is this thread linked off the product page on the website?
I can't see it anywhere there, but on the header description for the section and on the product page itself would be dead handy and hopefully drive some sales after people see the lists!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 23 May 2022, 11:22:33 AMBtw is this thread linked off the product page on the website?
I can't see it anywhere there, but on the header description for the section and on the product page itself would be dead handy and hopefully drive some sales after people see the lists!
Not yet, but it will be!
We've added the planned lists for CWC above but I'll include them here as well:
PLANNED LISTS
Batch 1
COLD WAR
- Soviet Naval Infantry
- US Marine Corp
MIDDLE EAST
Afghanistan:
- Mujahedeen
- Soviet Army
Batch 2
EUROPE
NATO:
- Belgians
- Canadian
- Danish
- Dutch
- Norwegians
Neutrals/Non-aligned:
- Austrian
- Finland
- Sweden
MIDDLE EAST
Arab Israeli Wars:
- Arab States
- Israeli Defence Force
ASIA PACIFIC
- Australia
- China
- India
- Pakistan
Batch 3
MIDDLE EAST
- Iran (Iran Iraq War)
- Iraq (Iran Iraq War)
- Suez Crisis (British & French)
AFRICA
- Ethiopia
- Somalia
Batch 4
EUROPE
NATO:
- Spanish
- Portuguese
- Italian
- Greek
- Turkey
Neutrals/Non-aligned:
- Ireland (Eire)
- Switzerland
- Yugoslavian
ASIA PACIFIC
- Japan
- Taiwan
- North Korean (1965-90)
- South Korean (1965 -2001)
MIDDLE EAST
- Iran (Gulf Wars)
- Egyptian
- Libya
- Lebanese Civil War
AFRICA
- Africa Marxist Insurgency
- Angolan
- Portuguese Colonial
- South African
- Algerian Insurgency
Batch 5
SOUTH/CENTRAL AMERICA
- Argentine Main Force 1970-1995
- Bolivian Main Force 1970-95
- Brazilian 1970-95
- Chile 1970-95
- Columbian 1970-95
- Cuba 1962 – 95
- Dominican Republic
- Ecuadorian Army 1965-95
- El Salvador 1965-1995
- Guatemalan Army 1960-95
- Honduran Army 1960-1995
- Mexican 1960-2000
- Nicaraguan Army 1970-2000
- Paraguayan Army 1970-1995
- Peruvian Army 1970-1995
- Uruguayan Army 1965-1995
Batch 6
OTHER CONFLICTS
Small Wars:
- Grenada (Operation Urgent Fury) – Grenadine v USMC + Caribbean countries
- Panama (Operation Just Cause) – Panama v USMC (War on Drugs)
- Cyprus Crisis (1974) – Greeks, Cypriots, Turks, British
- 'Flash-point Berlin' – British Berlin Infantry Brigade (+ US & French) v East German & Soviet
- The Moroccan v Algerian 'Sand Wars' 1962 - with Cuban and Egyptian interventionist forces.
- Sino-Indian 'Border War' 1962 between India and China in the mountains between India and Tibet
- The Malayan Insurgency (1948-60)
- Sino-Indian 'Border War' 1962
That is some list!
On French Indochina list it lists AT for the M4 sherman as 3/8
Quote from: Fenton on 27 May 2022, 12:10:07 PMOn French Indochina list it lists AT for the M4 sherman as 3/8
Thanks - should be 3/80
Mark
We've added the Random Points Modifier to our Dropbox, which allows you to adjust the points available to a battlegroup based on historical factors, to give a more realistic pair of opposing forces. Some of the army lists also give Special Rules to help/hinder your forces when using this Modifier so head over and download your copy now: Random Points Modifier (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfnq9lbovabz54w/RandomPointsModifier.pdf?dl=0)
Just one question for me.
I'm an old Iranian Player and I can see that Iran is in Batch 3. But when we can get it ?! Can we play with the old version ?!
Quote from: Elpeji on 28 May 2022, 08:33:43 PMI'm an old Iranian Player and I can see that Iran is in Batch 3. But when we can get it ?! Can we play with the old version ?!
The old version could still work but you would need to add in the missing AP/AT stats. The Iran list is actually one of the first for Batch 3 so it shouldn't be far away.
Quote from: Leon on 28 May 2022, 10:28:57 PMThe old version could still work but you would need to add in the missing AP/AT stats. The Iran list is actually one of the first for Batch 3 so it shouldn't be far away.
Generally the AT stats are those shown in CWC-I - so it is the AP stats you will need to come up with. But a lot of the Iranian stats are UK or US units and both these two lists are available on-line now.
We'll get to the Iranians soon - I am working hard at it the list :D
Cheers
Mark
Leon some of the SA lists you are intending are far too small to include. Bolivia for instance had 20 Kurrassier, around 100 assorted APC's and a few EE-9 armoured cars in 1980.
If we are doing the Gulf War could we have a list for Kuwait?
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 30 May 2022, 03:42:43 PMIf we are doing the Gulf War could we have a list for Kuwait?
From memory it's very small, but should be no problem writting it.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 30 May 2022, 03:26:40 PMLeon some of the SA lists you are intending are far too small to include. Bolivia for instance had 20 Kurrassier, around 100 assorted APC's and a few EE-9 armoured cars in 1980.
Playing at 1:1 would mean you could still have a likely scrap, without fielding the entire army every battle...
Quote. . .Bolivia for instance had 20 Kurrassier, around 100 assorted APC's and a few EE-9 armoured cars in 1980.
A what? <runs off to Wikipedia> Cool. Looks pretty much like an M24 or M41 hull with an AMX-13 turret would be a good proxy?
Says they had 54 in total. Also modified P-51s, but I can't (yet) find in-service dates.
QuoteA what? <runs off to Wikipedia> Cool. Looks pretty much like an M24 or M41 hull with an AMX-13 turret would be a good proxy?
Says they had 54 in total. Also modified P-51s, but I can't (yet) find in-service dates.
If this site can be believed 1954-1978
https://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/foreign-service/ (https://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/foreign-service/)
Would make a great "pocket army", troop of Sk-105's, half a dozen mech infantry in a variety of APCs, couple EE-9's for Recce - and some Mustangs for air support :D
Fudge the dates a bit if needed ;)
Quote from: toxicpixie on 30 May 2022, 05:51:35 PMWould make a great "pocket army", troop of Sk-105's, half a dozen mech infantry in a variety of APCs, couple EE-9's for Recce - and some Mustangs for air support :D
Fudge the dates a bit if needed ;)
It is why all the South & Central America list are at the end of the release cycle - small and will require a bit of research. That will be fine by then, as I will probably have had enough of list-bashing by then !!!! :D
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 30 May 2022, 03:42:43 PMIf we are doing the Gulf War could we have a list for Kuwait?
My 'plan' was to create a Gulf War optional rules PDF - and we can add some of the Gulf States (including Kuwait) into that. The British, French, American main lists already go up to include the Gulf War. It will just need me to refine/update the Iraqi list as well.
Cheers
Quote from: Big Insect on 30 May 2022, 06:20:42 PMMy 'plan' was to create a Gulf War optional rules PDF - and we can add some of the Gulf States (including Kuwait) into that. The British, French, American main lists already go up to include the Gulf War. It will just need me to refine/update the Iraqi list as well.
Cheers
So long as we can create Panzer Group Qatar I'm happy :D
One of the Battlegroup Modern rules Comps did south American. I have Chilian and Venezulan (+possible Peruvian) Some are substabntial sized and most use nornal type kit, T54/5, AMX30, M51 Shermans. The EE-9 is a turret swap with AML90. THe Kurrassier is a 4K-4FAU APC with the AMX-13 1o5 turret. That's foir the 1980's.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 31 May 2022, 07:07:28 AMOne of the Battlegroup Modern rules Comps did south American. I have Chilian and Venezulan (+possible Peruvian) Some are substabntial sized and most use nornal type kit, T54/5, AMX30, M51 Shermans. The EE-9 is a turret swap with AML90. THe Kurrassier is a 4K-4FAU APC with the AMX-13 1o5 turret. That's foir the 1980's.
Do please send to me Ian - all matterial gratefully received :D
Not sure I still have it. I do have the Portugese on my spread sheet army picker. I'm looking at more lists ATM
:'( :'( :'(
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 31 May 2022, 07:07:28 AMThe EE-9 is a turret swap with AML90.
Pedantry incoming! Thats only the Mk 3 IIRC. Mk1 had a Greyhound turret Ithink and was only a prototype, the Mk 2 was a Brazilian made turret, and the Mk 4 was another domestic one with the Cockerill 90mm. I m!y have the nomenclature messed up, but I have my notes somewhere from going down a very deep rabbit hole on the EE-9 at one point.
Does it mean anything in game terms? Absolutely not! Does it make me feel better about myself? Also yes!
Quote from: Smartbomb on 31 May 2022, 07:38:11 PMPedantry incoming! Thats only the Mk 3 IIRC. Mk1 had a Greyhound turret Ithink and was only a prototype, the Mk 2 was a Brazilian made turret, and the Mk 4 was another domestic one with the Cockerill 90mm. I m!y have the nomenclature messed up, but I have my notes somewhere from going down a very deep rabbit hole on the EE-9 at one point.
Does it mean anything in game terms? Absolutely not! Does it make me feel better about myself? Also yes!
There are ways & means of accommodating and 'harnessing' your 'pedantry' Smartbomb ... keep this stuff coming ... I'll find a use for it ;D
Cheers
Mark
Batch 1 of new Army Lists added tonight, with a few bonus lists for good measure!
Cold War 1946-90
- Austrian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/33wc0j6f2fl8c1p/ColdWarAustrian1955%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Danish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9b5qgn2frmv1pg/ColdWarDanish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet Naval Infantry (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ruimv6u97uzi1g9/ColdWarSovietNavalInfantry1961%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Swedish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ziq9hfatiae7qv/ColdWarSwedish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- United States Marine Corps (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmgpp7gy2yizkg0/ColdWarUSMarineCorps1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
Soviet-Afghan War 1979-89
- Mujahideen (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uiyjny4tmagrfkk/Soviet-AfghanMujahideen1979-89.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet (https://www.dropbox.com/s/iemtt8xnynztand/Soviet-AfghanSoviet1979-89.pdf?dl=0)
Quote from: Big Insect on 31 May 2022, 10:53:47 PMThere are ways & means of accommodating and 'harnessing' your 'pedantry' Smartbomb ... keep this stuff coming ... I'll find a use for it ;D
Cheers
Mark
Going through my own notes, there's a lot of interesting stuff I had forgotten about:
Prototypes of the EE9 predecessor with M3 Stuart turrets, re-engining halftracks with the same engine that was used on prototypes.
Colombia upgradinh their Greyhounds to a TOW missile carrier.
A design bureau attempted to turn an M8 prototype into an multiple rocket launcher by affixing a turret loaded with old aircraft rockets from the P47.
I have about 16 pages of stuff on the EE-9 with a lot of tangential info too if you have any interest in looking at it.
Quote from: Leon on 31 May 2022, 11:37:47 PMBatch 1 of new Army Lists added tonight, with a few bonus lists for good measure!
Cold War 1946-90
- Austrian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/33wc0j6f2fl8c1p/ColdWarAustrian1955%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Danish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9b5qgn2frmv1pg/ColdWarDanish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet Naval Infantry (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ruimv6u97uzi1g9/ColdWarSovietNavalInfantry1961%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Swedish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ziq9hfatiae7qv/ColdWarSwedish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- United States Marine Corps (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmgpp7gy2yizkg0/ColdWarUSMarineCorps1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
Soviet-Afghan War 1979-89
- Mujahideen (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uiyjny4tmagrfkk/Soviet-AfghanMujahideen1979-89.pdf?dl=0)
- Soviet (https://www.dropbox.com/s/iemtt8xnynztand/Soviet-AfghanSoviet1979-89.pdf?dl=0)
Thanks for the new lists, a lot of good stuff on there. One quick question - would the Austrian Gebirgsjager have the "Mountaineer" ability?
Quote from: Smartbomb on 01 June 2022, 02:16:00 AMThanks for the new lists, a lot of good stuff on there. One quick question - would the Austrian Gebirgsjager have the "Mountaineer" ability?
Yes - that would seem sensible - just add 5pts to their costs and add the Mountaineer ability.
We can pick that up in a future edit.
Quote from: Smartbomb on 01 June 2022, 12:54:31 AMGoing through my own notes, there's a lot of interesting stuff I had forgotten about:
I have about 16 pages of stuff on the EE-9 with a lot of tangential info too if you have any interest in looking at it.
I'm always interested in stuff like that Smartbomb :) I'll drop you my direct email via the personal messages section - thanks
Mark
Thanks Ian - I knew if I threw a 'wobbler' you'd find the info :D
Quote from: Big Insect on 01 June 2022, 04:12:06 PMThanks Ian - I knew if I threw a 'wobbler' you'd find the info :D
I gnore you moods....found a lot more stuff, really need to ask originator though. Don't see a problem with that but you will have to retire to use it all.
This is fantastic! I haven't gotten my rules yet but what are the chances of being able to push this into post 1995? Modern conflicts and such?
Quote from: Wargamergunnar on 03 June 2022, 07:29:58 PMThis is fantastic! I haven't gotten my rules yet but what are the chances of being able to push this into post 1995? Modern conflicts and such?
You can play the rules pretty much as they are into post Cold War conflicts. There is an Iraqi Gulf War list in the schedule, and the US, French and British lists can already cover the Gulf.
I will (eventually - once I have completed all the remaining army lists, rules & list errata etc. and a couple of other playing-aid PDFs) create a 'Modern' Supplement that will take the rules through to the 2nd Gulf War, maybe the Balkans. This will include lists for other coalition forces - Kuwait, Saudi etc.
But I am very reluctant to create anything specific for more current conflicts, such as Syria, Afghanistan or even Ukraine. I'll leave that for individual players to take forward, as they see appropriate.
Thanks
Mark
Quote from: Big Insect on 03 June 2022, 07:36:18 PMYou can play the rules pretty much as they are into post Cold War conflicts. There is an Iraqi Gulf War list in the schedule, and the US, French and British lists can already cover the Gulf.
I will (eventually - once I have completed all the remaining army lists, rules & list errata etc. and a couple of other playing-aid PDFs) create a 'Modern' Supplement that will take the rules through to the 2nd Gulf War, maybe the Balkans. This will include lists for other coalition forces - Kuwait, Saudi etc.
But I am very reluctant to create anything specific for more current conflicts, such as Syria, Afghanistan or even Ukraine. I'll leave that for individual players to take forward, as they see appropriate.
Thanks
Mark
Thanks mark! I enjoy wargaming pretty much every period in history! Thank you for all your hard work!
Glad you are enjoying them :)
I have my 1st non-test-play game on Sunday 27th June - I am dusting down my Dutch who have not seen the light of day for a couple of years.
I am really looking forward to another massive Cold War Commanders battle.
Cheers
Mark
Great work. 😎
Just find a minor error on the Swedish list. According to the list Jas 39 Gripen is avaible +1972. First test flight 1988, but it was first 6 june 1996 Gripen it was introduced officially to the Swedish Air Force for activ duty.
Quote from: Alien242 on 09 June 2022, 04:14:43 PMGreat work. 😎
Just find a minor error on the Swedish list. According to the list Jas 39 Gripen is avaible +1972. First test flight 1988, but it was first 6 june 1996 Gripen it was introduced officially to the Swedish Air Force for activ duty.
Well spotted - we'll get that fixed
Many thanks
Mark
If I may, could I ask some questions about the Swedish list too. First, the 1989 version of the Ikv-91 sees a big jump in AT firepower from 5/100 to 9/100. I was just wondering why?
Second, with the Strv 103 S-Tank the armour seems very low. 4 hits and a save of 5. This is the same as the T-34/76 and the M4A3 Sherman. I am no expert, but is this right?
Finally the Swedes don't have counter battery capability in the list. I have read that Swedish artillery battalion HQs had counter battery flash spot and sound ranging equipment. Is this enough to count as counter battery capability?
Great work!
QuoteSecond, with the Strv 103 S-Tank the armour seems very low. 4 hits and a save of 5. This is the same as the T-34/76 and the M4A3 Sherman. I am no expert, but is this right?
This hasn't changed from CWC1. Not saying it's wrong or right, but it has always been that way.
I wonder if the M48 (FJR.40/Wachregiment) in the Warsaw Pact grade 1 list might be better classed as a recon element. At the moment the temptation would be to use it as long range support for the T55s rather than as an advanced element.
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 10 June 2022, 10:57:37 AMI wonder if the M48 (FJR.40/Wachregiment) in the Warsaw Pact grade 1 list might be better classed as a recon element. At the moment the temptation would be to use it as long range support for the T55s rather than as an advanced element.
I'll look into that - thank you - it was a bit of a long-shot adding it in TBF - as there is/was a lot of speculation around its exitance in any number. But it adds a bit of 'colour' :D
6 new lists added today!
Cold War 1946-90
- Australian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/at5k43e0del25o9/ColdWarAustralia1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Belgian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2ithdm8kwgiz0e/ColdWarBelgian1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Canadian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/06o7nwl0g014zbg/ColdWarCanadian1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Finnish (https://www.dropbox.com/s/c20i2wir9qfne4t/ColdWarFinnish1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Netherlands (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqj9c1m3qxvpttt/ColdWarNetherlands1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
- Norwegian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2q6ykqnx365x86/ColdWarNorwegian1946%2B.pdf?dl=0)
Next up will be the Arab-Israeli lists to go with our new range. I'll try and get these released this coming week but with another show coming it might need to wait until we get back on Sunday.
Nice start to the lists and thank you. I will be interested to see the long term impact of having them posted online vs in the book.
Definitely looking forward to the Arab-Israeli lists though I suspect I may do more in 1:1.
Currently worrying about the potential to have to have one of each of a Magach 3 [M48 with 105mm gun], M50/M51 and Sho't [Centurion] company for Sinai in 1973 i.e. 11 MBT at TO&E. At least the Egyptians only mainly have T-55 plus T-62 in the independent armoured brigades.
Edward
Quote from: Itinerant Hobbyist on 12 June 2022, 06:15:01 PMNice start to the lists and thank you. I will be interested to see the long term impact of having them posted online vs in the book.
Me too, I know there were some folks who really wanted them in the print version but I think this is much more efficient for everyone. No limitations on how many lists we release, easy updates when we need to tweak things, and the smaller rulebook alleviates the increased printing/shipping costs we're seeing at the moment.
Quote from: HogansHeroes on 10 June 2022, 08:34:13 AMIf I may, could I ask some questions about the Swedish list too. First, the 1989 version of the Ikv-91 sees a big jump in AT firepower from 5/100 to 9/100. I was just wondering why?
Second, with the Strv 103 S-Tank the armour seems very low. 4 hits and a save of 5. This is the same as the T-34/76 and the M4A3 Sherman. I am no expert, but is this right?
Finally the Swedes don't have counter battery capability in the list. I have read that Swedish artillery battalion HQs had counter battery flash spot and sound ranging equipment. Is this enough to count as counter battery capability?
Great work!
I think the 1989 Ikv-91 AT value is a mistake.
The S-tank is one of those Cold War tanks that people frequently overestimate the protection of. It looked cool and all, but it had 50mm of frontal armour (at a considerable angle to be sure). The strv 103's heavily sloped but not all that thick front armor which offered good protection against 1960's armor-piercing rounds was also completely insufficient against newer 1970's "long rod" penetrators. A post-Cold War test by the Swedes using Soviet 125mm ammunition saw the rounds go right through the tank from front to back! It did have a nifty screen against HEAT rounds though. It also had a long 105mm gun, not the standard L7.
Quote from: Itinerant Hobbyist on 12 June 2022, 06:15:01 PMNice start to the lists and thank you. I will be interested to see the long term impact of having them posted online vs in the book.
I think it will be very positive, and I was sceptical at first.
Quote from: dylan on 15 June 2022, 06:46:26 AMI think the 1989 Ikv-91 AT value is a mistake.
The S-tank is one of those Cold War tanks that people frequently overestimate the protection of. It looked cool and all, but it had 50mm of frontal armour (at a considerable angle to be sure). The strv 103's heavily sloped but not all that thick front armor which offered good protection against 1960's armor-piercing rounds was also completely insufficient against newer 1970's "long rod" penetrators. A post-Cold War test by the Swedes using Soviet 125mm ammunition saw the rounds go right through the tank from front to back! It did have a nifty screen against HEAT rounds though. It also had a long 105mm gun, not the standard L7.
Thanks dylan
One of the factors effecting the 'S' tanks protection is its very low profile and lack of a turret.
But I will review both the Ikv-90 and strv 103's stats.
Mark
Mark the Swedish 105 is better than the L7/M68 but not by much. The other thing is getting a sticky hit, the extreme slope would have meant that it was quite likely any rounds hitting would bounce off rather than penetrating. A better save would seem to be in order.
Quote from: HogansHeroes on 10 June 2022, 08:34:13 AMIf I may, could I ask some questions about the Swedish list too. First, the 1989 version of the Ikv-91 sees a big jump in AT firepower from 5/100 to 9/100. I was just wondering why?
> this may be a typo/errata - I am looking into it
Second, with the Strv 103 S-Tank the armour seems very low. 4 hits and a save of 5. This is the same as the T-34/76 and the M4A3 Sherman. I am no expert, but is this right?
> interesting comment as another post seems to imply that the armour is too good :) - I will check that.
Finally the Swedes don't have counter battery capability in the list. I have read that Swedish artillery battalion HQs had counter battery flash spot and sound ranging equipment. Is this enough to count as counter battery capability?
> do you have any dates for the counter-battery capability equipment please - as I couldn't find anything?
Great work!
Comments above in bold - thank you
Mark
Sweden had Green Archer counter-mortar radars, and the Bplpbv-3023, a flsh-spot sound ranging version of the Pbv-302 APC in the 1970s.
As mentioned, the S-Tank is an unusual case. Relatively thin armour, but highly sloped and with no turret.
This provided good protection in the 60s (the Swedes estimated as much as a Chieftain), but became obsolete in the 70s (really the S-Tank overall in a nutshell).
Just to add, the S-Tank also had very good reversing capabilities (better than its contemporaries) with a separate reverse driver (who also managed the radio). This means the S-Tank could more easily keep its front towards the enemy when redeploying/retreating. Not sure, if that should count when calculating hits/saves?
On the other side, the S-Tank had poorer off-road capabilities than the Swedish Centurions. Maybe its speed should be reduced (given the amount of off-roading on a battlefield)?
I agree on rating the S-tank as equivalent to a Chieftain frontally. Plus hull down it has as low a profile as an unarmed jeep. It can also turn on the spot quicker than many tanks can traverse their turrets. Watch the Youtibe videos on it.
I would say the S-tank was viable well into the 1970s, because the most common enemy tank it would face was still the T-55 and PT-76 - none of the T-64s and T-72s were deployed in the northern theatres, and the only 125mm it would face would be T-80s from the mid 1980s. I'm not even sure it would have had to face T-62s.
All very helpful folks ... these sort of 'oddity' vehicles are the thing that make the list writing 'fun' :D
I'm researching the Portuguese list(s) at present and came across a French made (wheeled) APC (EBR-ETT) used exclusively in Angola, where Portugal was the only export customer (in fact the only customer) for this vehicle, which was basically a turretless Armoured Car (Panhard EBR) with a troop compartment to the rear - but with some integral MGs like a tank.
NB: the Portuguese used a 'fab' vehicle camouflage pattern in Africa/Angola. Just a shame that they use so few armoured vehicles in Africa.
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: sultanbev on 15 June 2022, 09:32:27 PMI agree on rating the S-tank as equivalent to a Chieftain frontally.
Hmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain. If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.
Quote from: dylan on 17 June 2022, 06:47:46 AMHmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain. If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.
The Tank Chat is worth a look.
S-tankhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7cb7GlOnSY
Chieftainhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3OF9IvtHLk
QuoteHmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain. If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.
Looking at the British list, all tanks from Chieftain Mk.2 up to Challenger II have the same Hits/Save of 6/3.
Is an early model Chieftain as well armoured as the latest Challenger? Of course not. But they have the same scores?
Remember the granularity that CWC works at - we only have 4 choices for Hits - 3, 4, 5 or 6. 3 is for light tanks or IFVs, 4 for WW2-types, 5 is early MBTs, 6 is for the latest & greatest.
Save with saves - CWC uses 6 down to 2. Again, 6 for light tanks, 5 for WW2, 4 for early MBT, 3 for later MBT, 2 for the latest Abrahms.
Quote from: Raider4 on 17 June 2022, 09:02:04 AMLooking at the British list, all tanks from Chieftain Mk.2 up to Challenger II have the same Hits/Save of 6/3.
Is an early model Chieftain as well armoured as the latest Challenger? Of course not. But they have the same scores?
Remember the granularity that CWC works at - we only have 4 choices for Hits - 3, 4, 5 or 6. 3 is for light tanks or IFVs, 4 for WW2-types, 5 is early MBTs, 6 is for the latest & greatest.
Save with saves - CWC uses 6 down to 2. Again, 6 for light tanks, 5 for WW2, 4 for early MBT, 3 for later MBT, 2 for the latest Abrahms.
Yes, well aware of all that.
Unfortunately my views on Western/NATO tanks were on the other thread relating to the army lists.
So, to clarify, I'm suggesting the early model Chieftains (those before Stillbrew) should be 6/4 rather than 6/3.
Can we move this debate over to the Army list Errata chat please folks.
Or it will get lost here or be overlooked.
Thanks
Mark
Quote from: Big Insect on 16 June 2022, 10:16:43 AMAll very helpful folks ... these sort of 'oddity' vehicles are the thing that make the list writing 'fun' :D
Given what I'm working on ATM I have to disagree......I hate armies that don't throw anything away.
Quote from: dylan on 17 June 2022, 09:07:34 PMSo, to clarify, I'm suggesting the early model Chieftains (those before Stillbrew) should be 6/4 rather than 6/3.
I will certainly review and consider that dylan - as we enter into the errata review - thank you
2 new army lists released tonight to go with our new ranges, which can be found here: https://www.pendraken.co.uk/arab-israeli-1082-c.asp
Arab-Israeli Wars 1956+
- Arab States (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d20wzbfooab8m67/ArabIsraeliArabStates1956-82.pdf?dl=0)
- Israeli (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pk3ifwynx9oz9b/ArabIsraeliIDF1948-2000.pdf?dl=0)
New lists look good. I would have separated the Arabs out into 3 lists and there should perhappes have been an Iraqi one (Not checked to see if I wrote one) as they commited in 73. Nice to see the NATO designations for missiles ie AT-3 Sagger.
More new army lists released tonight, with the Indo-Pakistan War now covered plus an extra Vietnam list for the ANZACs:
Vietnam War 1957-75
- ANZAC (https://www.dropbox.com/s/aopamg9l41dj5xe/VietnamWarANZAC1965-71.pdf?dl=0)
Indo-Pakistan War 1965-71
- Indian (https://www.dropbox.com/s/diy1yktix3u23ln/IndoPakistanIndian1965-71.pdf?dl=0)
- Pakistan (https://www.dropbox.com/s/kykc1awql6x2ej6/IndoPakistanPakistani1965-71.pdf?dl=0)
Two new army lists released tonight with the Chinese and South Korean lists now available to download:
Cold War 1946-90
- Chinese (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rg0woom9s250vk0/ColdWarChinesePLA1949-2000.pdf?dl=0)
- South Korean (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9troveg7lsnledh/ColdWarRepublicKorea1948-2000.pdf?dl=0)
This completes Batch 2 of our planned lists, so that's 38 online now. We'll be moving on to Batch 3 in the coming weeks so keep an eye out for those.
Loving the Chinese list.
QuoteLoving the Chinese list.
Much appreciated :-[ - it was a devil to research due to the various/assorted designations for the different equipment (e.g. a Type 59 can be a rifle and an MBT for example). Plus the fact that there are/were so many different prototypes and export models. It's really easy to go off down a research 'rabbit-hole' and get 'fixated' on a specific vehicle type, only to discover it was never used by the PLA and only a handful of prototypes were ever made!
I've also got very interested in the multiple arming of the later MBTs, with each potentially having their own separate ATGW launchers and even SAM capabilities. Hence I've started to add Upgrades to Armour units as well as to Infantry.
There is a post Vietnam War Vietnamese on its way (not far off) - so that 1979 Sino-Vietnamese border clash will be possible; and also a post Korean War (is that an allowable statement??? - maybe a post 27 July 1953 ceasefire) North Korean War list on the stocks as well. I'm also planning a Royal Thai - but that might take me a while as I've got to keep myself on-task with the published release agenda.
So for now, it's a couple of African list next on the drawing board.
Just need somebody (Leon???) to produce some Cold War Chinese in 10mm and we're off :D
Cheers
Mark
Loving all these lists! Great work guys, thank you.
Quote from: Big Insect on 09 July 2022, 11:24:51 PMMuch appreciated :-[ - it was a devil to research due to the various/assorted designations for the different equipment (e.g. a Type 59 can be a rifle and an MBT for example). Plus the fact that there are/were so many different prototypes and export models. It's really easy to go off down a research 'rabbit-hole' and get 'fixated' on a specific vehicle type, only to discover it was never used by the PLA and only a handful of prototypes were ever made!
I've also got very interested in the multiple arming of the later MBTs, with each potentially having their own separate ATGW launchers and even SAM capabilities. Hence I've started to add Upgrades to Armour units as well as to Infantry.
There is a post Vietnam War Vietnamese on its way (not far off) - so that 1979 Sino-Vietnamese border clash will be possible; and also a post Korean War (is that an allowable statement??? - maybe a post 27 July 1953 ceasefire) North Korean War list on the stocks as well. I'm also planning a Royal Thai - but that might take me a while as I've got to keep myself on-task with the published release agenda.
So for now, it's a couple of African list next on the drawing board.
Just need somebody (Leon???) to produce some Cold War Chinese in 10mm and we're off :D
Cheers
Mark
Did you develop a "cheat sheet" to help you keep the naming conventions straight? I am having a terrible time of trying to work out what is what and could do with the help! I am not familiar with PLA/N gear at all and mini manufacturers seem to have little consistency.
It is confusing - this is from the old TTG Modern Equipment Handbook published in 1994.
Type 59 - a dierct clone of the T54/5 some of which were delivered prior to the Sino-Soviet split
from 1985 it had APFSDS ammunition
Type 59/II is same with the L7/M68 105mm
Type 69 is same with upgraded sights II adds APFSDS and was futher upgraded in '85 with better sights
Type 79 has the 105mm
Type 80 is also known as Type 69 III. Has chobhan on the front plate - 5+ save vs ATGW ?
Type 85 has the Choham and 2 versions M has the 125mm A the 105mm
There are also several upgrades for the type 59 which were being offered in 1990 involving Chobham, ERA somke dischargers and upgrading to pasive Night Fighting gear.
Quote from: ingtaer on 10 July 2022, 01:19:15 PMDid you develop a "cheat sheet" to help you keep the naming conventions straight? I am having a terrible time of trying to work out what is what and could do with the help! I am not familiar with PLA/N gear at all and mini manufacturers seem to have little consistency.
I didn't get that far I'm afraid.
The basic structure for the MBTs is pretty much as Ian has laid out - but even with that you have to be careful, as adding the 'Chobham' equivalent armour was only on some tanks - and even then it is not clear if these were not just some sort of 'experiment' that was then left in place, as the designers attentions moved on elsewhere ;D
It is also why I chose to stop at 2000 as the later tanks and AFVs/APC get even more complex.
I was just looking at the Falklands list and saw the Carl Gustav - I was at a talk by Maj Gen (Retd) Aidrian Freer a few weeks ago and he mentioned that they did not function in the conditions and so were not used - he was 2ic A Coy 3 Para at the time. That said, I am pretty sure the Naval Landing Party used them so they should be there, but thought I would mention it for anyone wanting to do a force for the latter part of the conflict.
I hope this helps/is of interest.
Kind regards,
Richard
Thanks Rim66 - it's an interesting discussion - as CGs were issued to the Paras for the Falklands campaign then we need them depicted in the lists.
However, I was not aware that CGs were subject to weather/terrain issues. That is interesting. I'd like to know more?
Most useful. Thanks
Mark
The RM certainly had them and used a CG to engage the Argentine frigate Guerrico. In a more general context, the CG was a Swedish weapon used by the Swedish army in arctic conditions without any problem. It also deployed regularly with British forces exercising with AMF(L) in Norway. As bits of kit go, it is about as simple as they get. I never heard of any problems with the weapon, in any theatre. I wonder if Freer is talking about MILAN, though I've never heard of issues with that either.
Quote from: rim66 on 12 August 2022, 02:31:06 PMI was just looking at the Falklands list and saw the Carl Gustav - I was at a talk by Maj Gen (Retd) Aidrian Freer a few weeks ago and he mentioned that they did not function in the conditions and so were not used - he was 2ic A Coy 3 Para at the time. That said, I am pretty sure the Naval Landing Party used them so they should be there, but thought I would mention it for anyone wanting to do a force for the latter part of the conflict.
I hope this helps/is of interest.
Kind regards,
Richard
Strange, everyone I know who was down there swears by both CG and Milans!
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 12 August 2022, 03:44:54 PMStrange, everyone I know who was down there swears by both CG and Milans!
It is, I never heard of any climate related issues with either weapon in any theatre.
First I had heard of it too and absolutely agree it should be in the lists. He was very clear that the LAW was excellent and very much in demand and that they used a couple of MILAN during Longdon, so both those seem to have been used. The issue seems to have been the fuzes so it could have been a bad batch and I agree the RM used it during the invasion. Maybe it was just becoming an issue as they went in to action? He really didn't say anything more but I thought I would throw it out there.
Kind regards,
Richard
Maybe off topic but does anybody have any OOBs for Yom Kippur or can you point me in the right direction
Quote from: Rob1962 on 18 October 2022, 10:28:01 PMMaybe off topic but does anybody have any OOBs for Yom Kippur or can you point me in the right direction
There's a load of MicroMark lists available on Wargame Vault: https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/3426/MicroMark-Army-Lists/subcategory/5776_5899/COLD-WAR-MIDDLE-EASTERN-NATIONS?page=1
From a document I found years ago on the internet - the website it came from is long gone, but it is fairly accurate from what was said at the time. Please note that the numbers given are actual numbers, not numbers of stands/bases etc for any particular ruleset.
ISRAELI ORDER OF BATTLE AND TO&Es OCTOBER 1973 By Laurent TOUCHARD
ORDER OF BATTLE
Sayeret Matkal (equivalent to SAS ; engaged with 1st Infantry Brigade Golani)
Kommando Yami (UDT equivalent a Navy unit)
NORTH FRONT (Tiberiad)
Sayeret Egoz (LRRP)
50th Airborne Battalion (from Nahal corps)
36th Mechanized Division (also known as the Ugdah Raful)
7th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal) with :
71st Armored Battalion
74th Armored Battalion
77th Armored Battalion (attached to the 188th Armored Brigade few hours before the war)
82nd Armored Battalion (from the 188th Armored Brigade, attached few hours after the beginning of the
war)
75th Mechanized Battalion
188th Armored Brigade Barak (Sho't Kal) with :
2nd Armored Battalion
53rd Armored Battalion
77th Armored Battalion (from the 7th Armored Brigade, attached few hours before the war)
82nd Armored Battalion (attached to the 7th Armored Division few hours after the beginning of the war)
1st Infantry Brigade Golani
Sayeret Golani
12th Infantry Battalion Barak
51st Infantry Battalion Ha'Bokaim Ha'Rishon
School Infantry Battalion Golani Buds (engaged in combats ?)
13th Infantry Battalion Gideon (from Golani Brigade)
820th Territorial Infantry Brigade
2 x engineer companies
2 x SAM batteries (HAWK)
2 x Anti-aircrafts companies
North Front Artillery Brigade (Self-propelled artillery) with :
9th Artillery Battalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
55th Artillery Battalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
334th Artillery Battalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
405th Artillery Battalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
Reinforcements commited to the North Front :
146th Armored Division (October 7 ; less 2 x armored companies of M51 Isherman attached to the Central
Front ; also known as the Ugdah Musa)
9th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal and M51 Isherman)
205th Armored Brigade (M51 Isherman)
70th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks)
240th Armored Division (October 7 ; also known as the Ugdah Laner ; from October 17, the
reconnaissance armored battalion, 2 x armored battalions, 2 x mechanized battalions of the division were
sent to the South Front)
17th Armored Brigade (Shot Kal)
679th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal)
4th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks)
31st Airborne Brigade (October 8 ; attached to the 36th Mechanized Division ; from October 17, 1 x
airborne battalion of the brigade was sent to the South Front)
2nd Infantry Brigade Carmeli (October 8)
Armored School Battalion Amos of the 7th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal)
CENTRAL FRONT (Jericho)
Sayeret Haruv (LRRP ; attached to the 162nd Armored Division)
116th Territorial Infantry Brigade Etzioni (less 1 x infantry battalion attached to the South Front)
612th Territorial Infantry Brigade Negev
1 x artillery brigade (with 4 x towed artillery battalions ; 155 mm M114/155 mm M68 and some 130 mm
M46)
1 x engineer company
2 x SAM batteries (HAWK)
2 x anti-aircrafts artillery
Reinforcements commited to the Central Front :
5th Infantry Brigade Givati (October 7)
2 x armored companies (October 9 ; from the 146th Armored Division ; equipped with M51 Isherman)
55th Airborne Brigade (October 9)
SOUTH FRONT (Bir Gifgafa and Um Kusheïba)
Sayeret Shaked (LRRP ; on jeeps and camels)
Sayeret Shoualey Shimson (LRRP ; on jeeps)
424th Armored Reconnaissance Battalion Ha-Sinaï (PT-76, BTR-50 and OT-62)
252nd Armored Division (also known as the Mendler and thereafter Ugdah Albert)
8th Armored Brigade (Magach 3 ; From the 143rd Armored Division, attached few hours after the
beginning of the war)
14th Armored Brigade (Magach 3 ; attached to the 143rd Armored Division few hours after the beginning
of the war)
9th Armored Battalion
52nd Armored Battalion
184th Armored Battalion
401st Armored Brigade (M60A1 Patton)
460th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal ; attached to the 162nd Armored Division)
210th Mechanized Brigade (Magach 3 ; from the 162nd Armored Division, attached few hours after the
beginning of the war)
275th Territorial Infantry Brigade
68th Territorial Infantry Battalion (436 x men from the 116th Territorial Infantry Brigade ; used to held
fortified posts on the Bar Lev Line, alongside Nahal elements)
601st Engineer Battalion
8 x SAM batteries (HAWK)
1 x anti-aircraft company
South Front Artillery Brigade (self-propelled artillery) with :
155th Artillery Battalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
402nd Artillery Battalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
403rd Artillery Battalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
404th Artillery Batalion (210 mm M203 or 175 mm M107)
2 x MRL battalions (BM-21 and BM-24 ; distributed among armored divisions, at least one battery per
division)
Units of the Nahal corps
Reinforcement committed to the South Front between October 7 and October 8, 1973 :
162nd Armored Division (October 7 ; also known as the Ugdah Bren)
Sayeret Haruv (from Central Front)
217th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal)
460th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal ; from the 252nd Armored Division)
500th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal ; less 1 x mechanized battalion attached to the South-
Sinaï Zone ; not operational until October 8)
210th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks ; attached to the 252nd Armored Division few hours
after the beginning of the war)
240th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks)
143rd Armored Division (at the end of October 7 ; aslo known as the Ugdah Arik)
87th Armored Reconnaissance Battalion (M60A1 Patton, M113)
8th Armored Brigade (Magach 3 ; attached to the 252nd Armored Division few hours after the
beginning of the war)
14th Armored Brigade (Magach 3 ; from the 252nd Armored Division)
421st Armored Brigade (Magach 3)
600th Armored Brigade (Magach 3)
247th Airborne Brigade
440th Mechanized Division (from October 9 ; also known as the Ugdah Granit)
134th Armored Brigade (Tiran 4 and Tiran 5, PT-76, BTR-40, BTR-50 and OT-62, BTR-152, Zil trucks)
164th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal ; attached to the 252nd Armored Division)
11th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks)
670th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks ; attached to the 252nd Armored Division)
23rd Airborne Brigade (October 10)
3rd Infantry Brigade Alexandroni (October 11)
Reorganization of the South Front between October 9 and October 11, 1973
Ugdah Magen
134th Armored Brigade (Tiran 4 and Tiran 5, PT-76, BTR-40, BTR-50 and OT-62, BTR-152, Zil
trucks ; from the 440th Mechanized Division)
11th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks)
240th Mechanized Brigade (M3 Halftracks ; from the 162nd Armored Division)
143rd Armored Division (Ugdah Arik)
14th Armored Brigade (Magach 3 ; from the 252nd Armored Division ; reinforced October,
15, with 1x airborne battalions, 2 x mechanized battalions ; I don't know from which unit)
421th Armored Brigade (Magach 3)
600th Armored Brigade (Magach 3)
247th Airborne Brigade
2 x engineer battalions
3 x self-propelled howitzers battalions
162nd Armored Division (Ugdah Bren)
217th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal)
460th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal ; from the 252nd Armored Division)
500th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal ; less 1 x mechanized battalion attached to the South-
Sinaï Zone)
252nd Armored Division (Ugdah Albert)
8th Armored Brigade (Magach 3 ; from the 143rd Armored Division)
164th Armored Brigade (Sho't Kal ; from the 440th Mechanized Division)
401st Armored Brigade (M60A1 Patton)
670th Armored Brigade (Magach 3 ; from the 440th Mechanized Division)
440th Mechanized Division (Reserve ; also known as the Ugdah Granit)
210th Mechanized Brigade (Magach 3 ; from the 162nd Armored Division)
23rd Airborne Brigade
3rd Infantry Brigade Alexandroni
Reinforcements committed to the South Front from October 11
Elements of the 240th Armored Division (from October 17 : armored reconnaissance battalion, 2 x
armored battalions, 2 x mechanized battalions)
1 x airborne battalion (from October 17, was an unit of the 31st Airborne Brigade)
SOUTH SINAÏ ZONE/DISTRICT SALOMON (Sharm el-Sheik)
1 x mechanized battalion (from the 500th Armored Brigade)
99th Territorial Infantry Brigade
3 x SAM batteries (HAWK)
Reinforcements committed to the South Sinaï Zone :
35th Airborne Brigade (October 7)
TO&Es
Division-size units
Armored Division TO&Es (11.500 x men ; 275 x tanks, 265 x APCs, 54 x self-propelled pieces)
Headquarters
1 x command battalion (with M113 rather than M3 Halftracks)
1 x armored reconnaissance battalion 24 x tanks, 36 x APCs) or company (10 x tanks)
At least 2 x armored brigade (115 x tanks each)
1 x mechanized brigade (not in the 252nd Armored Division)
1 x engineer battalion (D9 bulldozers)
1 x antiaircraft artillery battalion (M3 Halftracks with TCM-20)
2 x self-propelled artillery battalions (rather 155 mm M109)
1 x MRL battery (BM-21 and BM-24)
1 x self-propelled mortar battalion (160 mm Makmat ?)
Mechanized Division TO&Es (12.000 x men, 160 x tanks, 300 x APCs, 48 x self-propelled pieces)
Headquarters
1 x command battalion (with M3 Halftracks or M113)
1 x armored reconnaissance battalion (24 x tanks, 36 x APCs) or company (10 x tanks)
At least 2 x armored brigade (115 x tanks ; theoretically only 1 x armored brigade)
At least 1 x mechanized brigade
1 x motorized infantry brigade (theoretically, but only in the 36th Mechanized Division)
1 x engineer battalion (D9 bulldozers)
1 x antiaircraft artillery battalion (M3 Halftracks with TCM-20)
2 x self-propelled artillery battalions (rather 155 mm M50 and 155 mm L33 Ro'em)
1 x self-propelled mortar battalion (160 mm Makmat ?)
Brigade-size units
Armored Brigade (115 x tanks, 35 x APCs)
1 x armored reconnaissance company (10 x tanks)
1 x command tank (Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; perhaps PT-76 in the 134th Armored Brigade or Tiran
4/Tiran 5)
3 x armored platoons (Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; perhaps PT-76 in the 134th Armored Brigade or
Tiran 4/Tiran 5)
3 x armored battalions
Reorganized armored brigade (2.500 x men ; 80 x tanks, 80 x APCs, 16 x self-propelled howitzers)
1 x armored reconnaissance company (10 x tanks)
2 x reorganized armored battalions (35 tanks each)
1 x armored engineer company (from the « division »)
1 x antitank platoon (TOW it seems they hadn't been used mounted on jeeps : only with their tripod,
transported in jeep or M3 Halftracks/M113, from October 14)
1 x self-propelled artillery battalion (from the « division »)
Airborne Brigade (3.000 x men ; 180 x APCs, 24 x heavy mortars)
1 x mechanized airborne reconnaissance company
3 x mechanized airborne battalions
1 x mechanized engineer airborne company
1 x motorized antitank airborne company
1 x heavy mortar battalion
Mechanized infantry brigade (3.000 x men ; 180 x APCs, 24 x heavy mortars)
1 x mechanized reconnaissance company
3 x mechanized infantry battalions
1 x mechanized engineer company
1 x motorized antitank company
1 x mechanized heavy mortar battalion
Battalion-size units
Armored reconnaissance battalion
3 x armored reconnaissance companies (24 x Sho't Kal and 36 x M113 on the North Front, at least one
battalion [87th] with 24 x M60A1 and 36 x M113 [and perhaps a second one] on the South Front, other on
the South Front with Magach 3 and M113 ; PT-76, BTR-50 and OT-62 in the 424th Armored
Reconnaissance Battalion [non-divisional])
4 x armored reconnaisance platoons (not sure)
1 x light reconnaissance company (mounted on jeeps)
4 x light reconnaissance platoons (not sure)
1 x AT platoon (not sure ; 4 x 106 mm M40A1 mounted on jeeps)
Armored battalion
Headquarters (1 x Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1/Tiran 4 [in the 134th Armored Brigade]/Tiran 5 [in the
134th Armored Brigade] as command tank, 1 x M3 Halftrack/M113/BTR-50 or OT-62 [in the 134th
Armored Brigade]/BTR-40 [in the 134th Armored Brigade] as command vehicle)
1 x armored reconnaissance platoon (not sure if this unit existed before the reorganization of armored
battalion) with :
1 x tank (Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; PT-76 in the 134th Armored Brigade)
1 x mechanized squad (on M3 Halftrack or M113 ; BTR-50 or OT-62 in the 134th Armored Brigade)
3 x armored companies
2 x command tanks (Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; Tiran 4 or Tiran 5 in the 134th Armored Brigade)
3 x tank platoons (3 x Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; Tiran 4 or Tiran 5 in th 134th Armored Brigade)
1 x mechanized heavy mortar platoon (3 x 120 mm mortars mounted on M3 Halftracks ; distributed
among armored companies)
Reorganized armored battalion
Headquarters (1 x Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1/Tiran 4 [in the 134th Armored Brigade]/Tiran 5 [in the
134th Armored Brigade] as command tank, 1 x M3 Halftrack/M113/BTR-50 or OT-62 [in the 134th
Armored Armored Brigade] as command vehicle)
1 x armored reconnaissance platoon with :
1 x tank (Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; Tiran 4 or Tiran 5 in the 134th Armored Brigade)
1 x mechanized squad (on M3 Halftrack or M113 ; BTR-50 or OT-62 in the 134th Armored Brigade)
3 x armored companies
2 x command tanks (Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; Tiran 4 or Tiran 5 in the 134th Armored Brigade)
3 x tank platoons (3 x Sho't Kal/Magach 3/M60A1 ; Tiran 4 or Tiran 5 in the 134th Armored Brigade)
1 x mechanized company (as describe below ; typically 1 x platoon per armored company, and 1 x
mechanized squad with its APC attached to each tank platoon ; mechanized company came from
mechanized/airborne battalions of mechanized/airborne brigades)
1 x mechanized heavy mortar platoon (3 x 120 mm mortar mounted on M3 Halftracks ; distributed among
armored companies)
Note : during the last stages of the war, it seems the 134th Armored Brigade used Egyptian captured tanks
and APCs without modifications, so, we can find T-54/T-55/Tiran 4/Tiran 5 in armored battalions of the
brigade.
Mechanized infantry/airborne battalion
Headquarters
1 x forward observer team
3 x M3 Halftracks or M113
1 x reconnaissance platoon
2 x 106 mm M40A1 mounted on jeeps
2 x mechanized rifle squads (mounted on 2 x M3 Halftracks or M113)
3 x mechanized infantry companies, each with :
1 x command squad (6 xmen with UZI SMG, 1 x M3 Halftrack or M113)
3 x mechanized rifle platoons, each with :
1 x command squad (5 x men with UZI SMG, 1 x M3 Halftrack or M113)
3 x mechanized rifle squads (each with : 10 x men with 2 x UZI SMGs, 7 x Romat assault rifles
[including 1 x Romat with grenade discharger], 1 x FALO SAW and 1 x Romat with grenade
discharger, 1 x M3 Halftrack or M113)
1 x weapons mechanized squad (6 x men with 5 x UZI SMGs, 1 x MAG LMG, 1 x Super Bazooka, 1 x
52 mm mortar, 1 x M3 Halftrack or M113)
1 x weapons mechanized platoon (with 2 x 12,7 mm M2HB, 2 x 81 mm mortars, 2 x M3 Halftracks or
M113)
1 x mechanized weapons company
1 x antitank platoon (4 x 106 mm M40A1 mounted on 4 x jeeps)
1 x heavy mortar platoon (3 x 120 mm mortars mounted on M3 Halftracks or transported in 3 x trucks ;
distributed among mechanized companies)
Notes :
Some units had AKM assault rifles and RPG-7 instead of Romat and Romat with grenade discharger).
Some rare units used M16A1 assault rifles from October 13.
M72 LAW were issued from October 13
Motorized infantry battalion
3 x infantry companies, each with :
Command squad (7 x men with UZI SMG, sometimes, 1 x Super Bazooka, 1 x truck with M2HB HMG)
3 x rifle platoons, each with :
1 x command squad (4 x men with UZI SMG, 1 x truck)
3 x rifle squads (each with 10 x men equipped with 2 x UZI SMGs, 7 x Romat assault rifles [including
1 x Romat with a grenade discharger], 1 x FALO SAW, 1 x truck)
1 x weapons squad (7 x men with 2 x UZI SMGs, 1 x MAG LMG, 1 x Super Bazooka, 1 x 52 mm
mortar, 1 x truck)
1 x weapons platoon (with 2 x 12,7 mm M2HB and 2 x 60 mm mortars, 2 x trucks)
1 x weapons company
1 x antitank platoon (4 x 106 mm M40A1 mounted on 4 x jeeps)
1 x mortar platoon (1 x forward observer team, 4 x 81 mm M29 mortars, 1 x jeep, 4 x trucks)
Notes :
Some units had AKM assault rifles and RPG-7 instead of Romat and Romat with grenade discharger).
Some territorial infantry units had still Mauser Kar98K instead of Romat.
NOTES
Magach 3 : M48A3 Patton upgraded with 105 mm L7 gun, new cupola, new engine and transmission and
new communication system.
Ambutanks : Sherman Medical Evacuation Tanks were used in armored medical platoon in the South
Front, but I don't know at which level of Israeli formations (probably armored brigades).
Armored recovery vehicles and engineer vehicles : the following armored recovery vehicles were used :
few T-55 ARV (in the 134th Armored Brigade), some BTR-152 ARV (an Israeli modification ; it seems it
had been used in mechanized units on the North Front), M74 Sherman ARV (not the US variant,
modifications made in Israel with Sherman M32 HVSS), perhaps at the level of brigade. It seems
Sherman Trailblazer weren't used in 1973.
Romat : was the Israeli name of the FN FAL.
Sho't Kal : Centurion Mk.3 and Centurion Mk.5 upgraded to Sho't standards (mostly modernized with a
105 mm L7 gun and a new cupola with a 12,7 mm M2HB AAMG) and later to Sho't Kal standards : new
engine and new transmission.
REFERENCES
Israeli Elite Units since 1948 by Samuel M. Katz, Osprey Publishing
Israeli M4 Sherman and derivative, Verlinden Publications
The decisiveness of Israeli small-leadership on the Golan Heights in the 1973 Yom Kippur War by Major
Oakland McCulloch
La guerre israélo-arabe d'octobre 1973 by Pierre Razoux, Economica
Wikipedia, on IDF : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Israel_Defense_Forces
Infos in Israeli forces and Israeli military history : http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/index.html
Homefront Command history : http://www1.idf.il/oref/site/en/oref.asp?pi=20207
Some Israeli units : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/army-orbat.htm
Some OOBs and TO&Es on the Six Days War and Kippur War :
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mcnelly/msh/ (but, with mistakes)
Some TO&Es : http://www.geocities.com/pmj6/aufisr.html
Israeli TO&Es : http://www.geocities.com/pmj6/aufisr.html
Unit reconstitution : an historical perspective :
http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/drea3/drea3.asp
87thArmored Reconnaissance Battalion : http://www.87th.org.il/enindex.html
188th Armored Brigade : http://www.tanksim.com/topic11.htm
Israeli weapons : http://www.israeli-weapons.com/index.html (one of the best site on this subject ; see
also here : http://www.israeli-weapons.com/vehicles_1948.html and at the bottom of the page)
Israeli vehicles reference page : http://www.cheyl-shiryon.com/vehicleref.html
Infos on some Israeli vehicles : http://www.mheaust.com.au/IDF/IDF%20Index.htm
On the Magach tank : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magach
On Sherman variants : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman_variants
The rifles of Israel 1948 – 1980 : http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/israeli.html
Attack on Suez : http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1628/MR1628.ch1.pdf
With all of the shows recently we've been a little behind on getting the next batch of CWC-2 lists done, but the good news is that we've got another 7 uploaded now including the Iran-Iraq Wars plus some of the African conflicts too:
Africa Conflicts
- Suez Crisis, 1956 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/un81xymcmq6xk8h/SuezCrisisAngloFrench1956.pdf?dl=0)
- African Communist Insurgencies, 1961-74 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mymm07ucwm2vo6p/AfricanCommunistInsurgencies1961-74.pdf?dl=0)
- Portuguese Colonial Wars, 1961-74 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4dldxnj92tsvnxn/PortugueseColonialWars1961-74.pdf?dl=0)
- Ogaden War Ethiopian, 1977-78 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/556wmpr9azn8l3n/OgadenWarEthiopian1977-78.pdf?dl=0)
- Ogaden War Somalian, 1977-78 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlt169eokx94c34/OgadenWarSomali1977-78.pdf?dl=0)
Iran-Iraq Wars 1946-2003
- Iran (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jbs8wsh65dpqxr/Iran-IraqWarsIran1946-2000.pdf?dl=0)
- Iraq (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5gxdy8lblsrw39/Iran-IraqWarsIraq1947-2003.pdf?dl=0)
Awesome, thanks! One minor addition would be Cuban BMD-1s in the Ogden War, which were airlifted to outflank Somali forces at Jijiga.
Quote from: Smartbomb on 24 October 2022, 01:02:15 AMAwesome, thanks! One minor addition would be Cuban BMD-1s in the Ogden War, which were airlifted to outflank Somali forces at Jijiga.
Thank you
The BRMD-1's/2s are there ... in the Recce section, but the BMP-1's were not airlifted (as far as I am aware) it was primarily BRDMs, Infantry and ASU-85s (unless you know otherwise?) :)
Mark - check the EE-9 and EE-11, all wheeled but not in lists, 9 is in one but not other, 11 in neither.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 24 October 2022, 02:24:22 PMMark - check the EE-9 and EE-11, all wheeled but not in lists, 9 is in one but not other, 11 in neither.
Now you really are confusing me Ian
Typically if a vehicle is designated as AC (Armoured Car) it is automatically classified as Wheeled.
Sometime - on obscure vehicles - I will emphasis that by putting Wheeled in the notes, but other times (where it is obvious - such as with Armoured Cars) I don't.
Cheers
Mark
Both types appear in both Iran and Iraq lists - EE-9 is wheeled in special column in one, appears in both, EE-11 in both with no wheeled note. Should be easy to spot as you did Wheeled in RED.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 24 October 2022, 03:22:05 PMBoth types appear in both Iran and Iraq lists - EE-9 is wheeled in special column in one, appears in both, EE-11 in both with no wheeled note. Should be easy to spot as you did Wheeled in RED.
Ah - the red is because I was due to edit it out Ian :D Good spot
Get it RIGHT ;)
Quote from: Leon on 21 October 2022, 12:35:58 AMWith all of the shows recently we've been a little behind on getting the next batch of CWC-2 lists done, but the good news is that we've got another 7 uploaded now including the Iran-Iraq Wars plus some of the African conflicts too:
Africa Conflicts
- Suez Crisis, 1956 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/un81xymcmq6xk8h/SuezCrisisAngloFrench1956.pdf?dl=0)
- African Communist Insurgencies, 1961-74 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mymm07ucwm2vo6p/AfricanCommunistInsurgencies1961-74.pdf?dl=0)
- Portuguese Colonial Wars, 1961-74 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4dldxnj92tsvnxn/PortugueseColonialWars1961-74.pdf?dl=0)
- Ogaden War Ethiopian, 1977-78 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/556wmpr9azn8l3n/OgadenWarEthiopian1977-78.pdf?dl=0)
- Ogaden War Somalian, 1977-78 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlt169eokx94c34/OgadenWarSomali1977-78.pdf?dl=0)
Iran-Iraq Wars 1946-2003
- Iran (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jbs8wsh65dpqxr/Iran-IraqWarsIran1946-2000.pdf?dl=0)
- Iraq (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5gxdy8lblsrw39/Iran-IraqWarsIraq1947-2003.pdf?dl=0)
For the Ogaden war there is info that South Yemen provided two T34/85 battalions to support the Ethiopians; so the list should have few. Veteran or otherwise.
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 26 October 2022, 02:23:04 PMFor the Ogaden war there is info that South Yemen provided two T34/85 battalions to support the Ethiopians; so the list should have few. Veteran or otherwise.
Do you have that source please? As I could find record of veteran South Yemen tank crews, supporting the Ethiopians, but not what they were driving.
Thanks
Mark
QuoteDo you have that source please? As I could find record of veteran South Yemen tank crews, supporting the Ethiopians, but not what they were driving.
Thanks
Mark
http://armchairgeneral.com/the-ogaden-war-1977-1978.htm (http://armchairgeneral.com/the-ogaden-war-1977-1978.htm)
QuoteThe Ethiopians started receiving lots of help. Two South Yemeni tank Battalions with T-34s arrived in late September, and the Russians increased their aid.
Unfortunately no first had sources but it seems plausible; particularly as there doesn't seem to be any evidence that South Yemen ever had T54s. Or at least as far as I can find
I have them listed in MicroMark list AF80M:
2 Yemeni Tank Battalions@ (late 1977+)
Bttn HQ: 2x T-34/85
3 Companies@ CHQ: 2x T-34/85
2 platoons@ 3x T-34/85
----------------------------------------
See List LA65M for the Cuban reinforcements
Mark
I agree that it seems logical - but as you say I can find nothing 1st-hand to back it up.
But bit more likely than the stories of the Israelis supplying napalm and cluster bombs and even (allegedly) flying sorties against the Somalis.
We can add the Yemini T34s in when we pick up the other list errata.
Quote from: Big Insect on 24 October 2022, 02:21:17 PMThank you
The BRMD-1's/2s are there ... in the Recce section, but the BMP-1's were not airlifted (as far as I am aware) it was primarily BRDMs, Infantry and ASU-85s (unless you know otherwise?) :)
For the BMD-1s: Helion's Ogden War book (where I read it) and Grange, David (2002). Air-Mech-Strike, 2nd Ed. Paducah, KY: Turner Publishing Co. pp. 86–88. Per Wikipedia.
Quote from: Smartbomb on 31 October 2022, 02:50:54 AMFor the BMD-1s: Helion's Ogden War book (where I read it) and Grange, David (2002). Air-Mech-Strike, 2nd Ed. Paducah, KY: Turner Publishing Co. pp. 86–88. Per Wikipedia.
Many thanks Chris - I will include them for the Cubans, as c.70 appear to have been deployed in the Jijiiga flanking manoeuvre.
Which makes some sense, although it was a very 'early' non-Soviet use of the BMD, as it was only seen 'in public' in late 1970.
Apparently the 70 vehicles includes some ASU-57, although I haven't been able to find out this splits down. Soviet TOE of the era would have ~31x BMD in a air assault battalion, and 31x ASU-57 in an airborne assault gun battalion, so 70 could be a battalion of each with a few "RHQ" vehicles- or was it two air assault battalions and one assault gun battery?
Mark
Quote from: sultanbev on 31 October 2022, 11:56:42 AMApparently the 70 vehicles includes some ASU-57, although I haven't been able to find out this splits down. Soviet TOE of the era would have ~31x BMD in a air assault battalion, and 31x ASU-57 in an airborne assault gun battalion, so 70 could be a battalion of each with a few "RHQ" vehicles- or was it two air assault battalions and one assault gun battery?
Mark
Sounds good Mark - thanks - and makes sense
There is some useful material in the CIA reading room on the Ogaden War. For example this item about the Cuban forces:
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP81T00380R000100830001-1.pdf
Shouldn't the Ethiopian list get a plus on infiltration? I am thinking here of the noteworthy deep outflanking of the Marda Pass.
I would suggest the Ethiopian list get a plus on infiltration. I am thinking here of the noteworthy deep outflanking of the Marda Pass.
Agreed - good call - it should only apply post Cuban intervention and as long as a Soviet/Cuban adviser is commanding the Battlegroup.
Is the Stryker brigade scheduled?
Bit outside the timeframe of the rules.
In the first edition appeared. =((
We will be creating more lists in the future so it might appear in one of those.
Currently there is no intention to produce this list. The primary scope of the rules is pre-1990.
The current US list has been extended to cover both Gulf Wars, and it should be possible to build a Stryker Brigade from that.
Any time frame please for the update of the army list PDFs?
Quote from: Superscribe on 16 February 2023, 04:35:00 PMAny time frame please for the update of the army list PDFs?
It'll be once the Korean War supplement has been released and we get onto the CWC Errata document. Most of the army lists have been tweaked already at this end though, so if there's something in particular you'd like to see I can check it and send it through?
Hi Leon
If already done I would be interested in amended PDFs for British, West German, Soviet and Soviet VDV army lists.
Regards
Chris
Quote from: Superscribe on 16 February 2023, 06:28:20 PMIf already done I would be interested in amended PDFs for British, West German, Soviet and Soviet VDV army lists.
No worries, those are mostly done so I'll get them finished off. Can you shoot me an email about it and I'll get them sent over to you?
When will the south African and Angolan army lists be done, seem to have been waiting ages for these
Quote from: Lordhay on 01 March 2023, 09:00:29 AMWhen will the south African and Angolan army lists be done, seem to have been waiting ages for these
Those are scheduled for batch 5 so it's probably going to be sometime in the summer, possibly towards the end of the year for those. We've got to get the Korean War supplement done first and then we can start looking at new lists again in May/June time.
It has gone quiet on the list front. We need more lists
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 08 June 2023, 06:00:13 PMIt has gone quiet on the list front. We need more lists
With the Korean supplement done now, we can shift attention back to Cold War and some more lists.
Hi Leon
How do you indicate if an army list has been updated? I suggest you put the date to the right of the list name above whenever you update a list, so we can easily spot if there have been any changes
Regards
Chris
Quote from: Lordhay on 01 March 2023, 09:00:29 AMWhen will the south African and Angolan army lists be done, seem to have been waiting ages for these
YES
At the moment, all CWC list drafting effort/energy/brainpower is being focused on what I'm calling the 'continuity project'. Which is about ironing out some of the easily identified errata - from the launch list errata thread - and also ensuring that all the stats across all the lists are consistent. So a BTR-40 in one list is pretty much the same across all lists by way of its stats and points costs. That will then be fed into the new CWC army list calculator.
The reason this has taken priority over any new lists (at present) is that currently I'm just compounding the 'continuity issue' when producing any new lists, and that is especially so where I'm introducing 'new' or more 'exotic' vehicles.
However, I/we are not that far off completing all the 'continuity project' issues - I am just wading my way through all the various Soviet designed ATGWs :'( but I am getting there (slowly).
There is also a whole batch of new lists included in the 'continuity project' - these include what I refer to as the Southern NATO lists and other European states.
Once the continuity project is done, all the lists will be updated & republished (online) and the CWC army list calculator will also be launched. Then I can look at the Southern African lists.
Cheers
Mark
Hi Leon.
Are the army lists updated at intervals to correct Errata etc? How will we know when a list has been updated?
It would be useful if you could add the following text after the list name "last updated on (date)" whenever a list is updated. Then we will know if we need to download it again.
Rgds
Chris
Quote from: Superscribe on 23 February 2024, 10:35:05 AMAre the army lists updated at intervals to correct Errata etc? How will we know when a list has been updated?
It would be useful if you could add the following text after the list name "last updated on (date)" whenever a list is updated. Then we will know if we need to download it again.
None of the lists have been updated with Errata as yet, but when they are there will be a note at the end to say what's been changed.
:-bd
Hi Leon
Munitions seem to have been omitted for aircraft and off-table artillery on the British, Bundeswehr and Belgian Army Lists. Can you please update asap
Regards
Chris
All are being updated as part of the Continuity Project. Which is progressing well.
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark
Any estimated timescale for completion of the Continuity Project?
Rgds
Chris
Quote from: Superscribe on 28 March 2024, 12:58:29 PMAny estimated timescale for completion of the Continuity Project?
The master spreadsheet is complete now so it's a case of transferring all of the revised data into the PDF army lists. That's quite a task so it'll be something for after Salute.
Great!
Can I ask if the Continuity Project master spreadsheet is being checked by some independent volunteer proof-reader/fact-checker?
I'd hate for all this work to be done and pdfs published for individual countries, and yet again we find various continuity errors or nomenclature slip-ups marring the finished product.
Quote from: dylan on 31 March 2024, 09:05:44 PMGreat!
Can I ask if the Continuity Project master spreadsheet is being checked by some independent volunteer proof-reader/fact-checker?
I'd hate for all this work to be done and pdfs published for individual countries, and yet again we find various continuity errors or nomenclature slip-ups marring the finished product.
The advantage of publishing lists on-line is that any minor errors (& there will always be some) can easily be corrected.
To put this project into context - there are over 5,000 unit stats and 12 columns per unit that have been reviewed and checked. It has taken over 6 months to go through these line-by-line and cross-reference each against each-other. There is also a huge amount of subjectivity in a lot of the factors, as a lot of the information is often contested or unconfirmed - even with vehicles that you'd think are pretty commonly known.
TBF the very best form of cross-checking and proof-reading is going to be the wider CWC II player community, who will (no-doubt) be the first to review their favorite list and send in comments :D
Happy Easter
Going off the book rather any already released errata:
I presume the T-10 tank has been corrected, currently it is an uber-tank more akin to the Is-7, certainly not better than the Conqueror; and the British towed artillery being manhandled 50cm......
Oh yes, before I forget, the Vigilant ATGW has a range of 1375m, which is 65cm, not the current 185cm (!)
I'm not sure why Malkara has 10D6 versus infantry in the open compared to 5D6 against a tank. I know it's a monstrous 8" HESH warhead but if it was that good agin' soft targets everyone would have had one.
Quote from: sultanbev on 02 April 2024, 10:01:46 AMI'm not sure why Malkara has 10D6 versus infantry in the open compared to 5D6 against a tank. I know it's a monstrous 8" HESH warhead but if it was that good agin' soft targets everyone would have had one.
Its MCLOS so wouldn't hit anybody
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 02 April 2024, 11:57:07 AMIts MCLOS so wouldn't hit anybody
Its large wings were a great disadvantage as well...
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 02 April 2024, 11:57:07 AMIts MCLOS so wouldn't hit anybody
ATGW cannot be fired at INF: units only vehicles - so the effect is what would happen if it hit a Truck or a 4x4 :o
Quote from: sultanbev on 02 April 2024, 10:01:46 AMGoing off the book rather any already released errata:
I presume the T-10 tank has been corrected, currently it is an uber-tank more akin to the Is-7, certainly not better than the Conqueror; and the British towed artillery being manhandled 50cm......
> yup - both adjusted
Oh yes, before I forget, the Vigilant ATGW has a range of 1375m, which is 65cm, not the current 185cm (!)
> yup - adjusted
I'm not sure why Malkara has 10D6 versus infantry in the open compared to 5D6 against a tank. I know it's a monstrous 8" HESH warhead but if it was that good agin' soft targets everyone would have had one.
> see comments above - but can happily adjust but I suspect that most players would not want to 'waste' it on a jeep :D