In looking for my next period and having seen the Perry's game at Partizan am considering the War of the Triple alliance as its something different. Given that i am more at the simulation end of the spectrum than game there are quite a few sticking points for me. The war is very one sided, the battles are quite similiar and again one sided, seems to be almost self genocide on the part of the Paraguyans plus I not be too keen to field Regiments made up of children (Though i expect that the manufacturer will not make these).
In an effort to remove the sticking points i was wondering what members of the forum thoughts on the war are.
Not one I know a lot about.
Me either
Given all the above, what is it that attracts you to this conflict?
I confess it's a conflict I've had a soft spot for, I think initially just because it was such a cool name for a war, then getting into it a bit more. However it is pretty low down the list because as you say there isn't that many interesting battles. It's more of a guerrilla war so ripe for skirmish level conflict but not big battles. So might be an interesting one to take s smaller scale approach to for those sort of actions.
If the South American location is of appeal it might be worth looking at the War of the Pacific, which had more traditional battles and saw an interesting mix of Franco Prussian war equipment and tactics.
Quote from: fred. on 17 October 2021, 07:42:24 AM
Given all the above, what is it that attracts you to this conflict?
The terrain and some of the uniforms particularly the Paraguyans.
@mmcv. thanks for the input. Think the skirmish angle is the way to go as i can pick and choose which figures i use for it and it gets around sticking points. Came across the War of the Pacific yesterday and will investigate further.
Yeah skirmish actions would work well. Though saying that if you're interested in focusing on just one battle, Tuytuti could be quite interesting. Not sure if you'd thought about rules, but there's a scenario for it on the BBB group that I considered maybe doing at some point in 2mm. Would be quite a interesting terrain set up.
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles/files/1864-1870%20War%20of%20the%20Triple%20Alliance%20%28Paraguayan%20War%29
For skirmish level was thinking Sharpe Practice 2 could work well as have been wanting to try them at some point.
There's also It's Getting a Bit Chile for the War of the Pacific if that's your thing.
Quote from: mmcv on 17 October 2021, 12:05:56 PM
For skirmish level was thinking Sharpe Practice 2 could work well as have been wanting to try them at some point.
Sharpe Practice are a good set and should work.
Not sure if you are thinking of doing this in 10mm or not. But if you do go with 10mm and skirmish sized actions I'd suggest considering the 1,2, 3 style of basing. This is where within a unit you have different numbers of figures on each base, typically circular ones. So in a 12 man unit you would have 2 each of a 1 figure base, 2 of 2 figures and 2 of 3 figures. This works well for not having quite so many individual bases to move around but still gives flexibility for positioning and casualty removal. And looks good.
With 10mm you can easily double the figure counts to give more of a mass effect.
Can you get figures for this war ?
@ mmcv : Tuytuti is an interesting battle, though probably quite unique in the war, as IMO it destroyed the Paraguyan army and after the odds are stacked against them. Your idea of skirmish level fits well with my interests in the period/gaming especially as i wouldn't be bound by historical scenarios.
@ Fred/mmcv : Was thinking of using a modified version of death in the dark continent. Am abit negative about SP, though SP2 is an improvement, but perhaps worth a revisit. Since i am looking skirmish level it allows me to use 28mm figures.
@ Lord Kermit : There are a few companies that do figures e.g. Perry/Kings Carbine but not sure if any do them in say 10 or 6mm.
Yes certainly of you're looking 28mm for it then skirmish is the way to go. Tuytuti is pretty much just a battle on its own so wouldn't really transfer to the rest of the war. Could have some very interesting fights and even a narrative campaign given the small numbers involved in much of the conflict outside Tuytuti.
I'd not seen death in the dark continent before, looks more like a colonial warfare system but if you like the mechanics I'm sure they can be adapted easily enough given the time period similarities.
Be interested to see where you go with this. Unfortunately it's got me looking at my 2mm scenario idea again...but I have enough ongoing projects as it is... X_X
@mmcv : Death in the Dark Continent is for Africa (1870-1899), though with slight modifications i have used it for the boxer rebellion and Northwest frontier. IMO it can be adapted for most colonial wars where 'attack columns' are not used.
The advantage is that the group of players i put games on for, know the rules so only have to learn the modifications for a different setting.
Going to look over the rules and learn a bit more about the period to see what mods are needed. Will keep you updated.
After Tuytuti, the numbers advantage of the allies is huge often giving battles of 20k v's 5k, so for me getting figures for just say Tuytuti is out of the question.
2mm that is a bit small for me, at that scale i would of thought early 20thC conflicts might be suitable e.g. Russo/Japanese.
Yeah absolutely. I like 2mm for giving that huge battle look, though I struggle to get the motivation to paint them at times. I've a bunch done for the Crimean War, just need one last push to finish that project off. It works really well for those long 19th century conflicts where there were large numbers of combatants in different formations. Has a different aesthetic appeal but is obviously much quicker to put together for projects you maybe want to play out the battles but not necessarily devote the time to it a larger figure project would require!
RJW is interesting too and another on that list.
@MMCV Don't know much about the RJW or the Balkan wars, other than they have some very large battles.
Due to being more into simulation its quite difficult to find periods with a large number of battles, that are almost consistant in size and are evenly matched. So if you know of any let me know. Todate i am limited to the AWI/ACW/WSS(SYW) am considering Ceasers/Gallic Wars and Naps but the latter is a big undertaking.
When you say simulation, what do you mean? As in trying to be as close to historical realities as possible? I.e. an accurate simulation of the battle. Or more just vaguely historical matchups that are meant to simulate the feel of the period and battles rather than the
exact realities?
Just I've heard it used both ways so never quite sure how it's meant!
Trying to get as close to the realities as 'reasonably' possible.
Originally my favourite period was Naps but over time i realised that its very difficult to get a simulation of the battles, without going down to say 2 or 3 mm. Have the view that a lot of people don't realise how big battles like Borodino really are if you do them say bn/sqn for bn/sqn in 1:20, its also difficult to get the ground scale right as well. Additionally Bridge bases don't really cut it for me so gave up on it. Now i mainly play AWI as its is ideal for 28mm.
Caesars wars could be good, though the Marian legions only really fought in the Gallic war and civil wars, whereas if you went Republican or Early Imperial you'd have a lot more potential enemies. Saying that, it's quite a different style of combat compared to the gunpowder period you've been doing already. Republican gives you a lot of options against the Gauls, Carthage and all the Hellenic states and the like. Early Imperial have plenty of "barbarian" enemies as well as Eastern kingdoms.
You could maybe look at the Franco Prussian war if you want to stay in the same time period. Alternatively some of the pike and shot era stuff is a lot of fun, for instance 30 Years War, English Civil War or even the Sun King/LoA era stuff.
I'm a big fan of Asian conflicts, China and Japan in particular, but they can be a bit obscure for a lot of people.
Considering Ceasers Gallic Wars (in Britian) due to the variety of the battles, and terrain. You can even do assaults on hill forts, amphibious landings, Aliesia and at a push Teutoburg Forest. The Republican battles can be a bit to much of 'line them up and knock them down' for my tastes.
The FPW is something else i should revisit. Studied it for 6months and came up with some ideas that would balance it out i.e. counter Krupp wins but it most of the rules i looked at were not that accurate decided to go with the ACW, lots and lots of evenly matched battles plus i like the F&F rules.
Have figures for the WSS which i use for the LOA, also WAS, due to the number of battles in each period being relatively small.
What Japanese/Chinese periods are you interested in?
Fair enough, sounds like you've a good plan for them.
Have you looked into Bloody Big Battles rules? They're based on F&F I believe and have scenarios for the FPW as well as many others from the 18th through early 20th Century.
Japan I'm currently working on the Genpei War and the Sengoku Jidai (12th and 16th centuries respectively). The Boshin War (19th C) has some potential, though more skirmish than big battle for the most part). There's also some very interesting actions in the 20th century, though given the war crimes and atrocities they committed probably has some of the issues you found with the WotTA.
China has a huge variety of options for many massive battles over many different terrains. I've done a couple of armies for late Warring States/early Qin (primarily around the Chu-Han Contention). I'm planning to expand out into broader Warring States. The Han Dynasty period also has some interesting conflicts against the Xiongnu steppe nomads as well as the Red Eyebrows and Yellow Turban Rebellions into the popular Three Kingdoms period. Though you could pretty much pick any century and there's probably some war or other going on in and around China! The Tang, the Song, the Ming, the Manchu... Sounds like you've already dipped your toe in with the Boxer Rebellion.
This war appeals to me due to the uniforms and the smaller battles which are easier to represent.
I am toying between 10mm and 15mm??
There are plenty of figures you could sub in
@ Bunny what ranges are you looking at?
Quote from: Spartan on 17 October 2021, 09:38:28 PM
The FPW is something else i should revisit. Studied it for 6months and came up with some ideas that would balance it out i.e. counter Krupp wins but it most of the rules i looked at were not that accurate
Quote from: mmcv on 17 October 2021, 10:14:52 PM
Have you looked into Bloody Big Battles rules? They're based on F&F I believe and have scenarios for the FPW as well as many others from the 18th through early 20th Century.
Hi Spartan, as mmcv says (thanks for the kind mention), BBB was designed primarily for FPW. The rulebook contains 9 scenarios for the biggest battles of the war, then there are another half a dozen or so freely available in the BBB group files: https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles . The scenarios are all evenly matched - it's certainly no walkover for the Germans.
You've already been pointed towards the BBB Tuyuti scenario above. As for China and Japan: those are also on my BBB to-do list but have yet to be made reality. The biggest C19 battle in Japan was Tabaruzaka in 1877 during the Satsuma rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tabaruzaka#:~:text=The%20Battle%20of%20Tabaruzaka%20began%20on%20March%203%2C,mile%20line%20from%20Tabaruzaka%20to%20the%20Ariake%20Sea. Should be an interesting and different game. And then in China there is the whole Taiping rebellion to do some time: https://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2017/04/taiping-error-not-really.html
Anyway, good luck with settling on conflict, figures and rules that suit you!
Chris
@ Chris Pringle, thanks for this will join the group and have a browse.
This seemed pertinent.
https://press.ucalgary.ca/books/9781552388099/?fbclid=IwAR1OF5RTJY2FssaRdhs955gkyIg0xjrUvHL2qdxSmQmlBCa9UU4NPZmLI54
I have no affiliation but I thought I should post it.