Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => 20th Century => Topic started by: Last Hussar on 02 January 2021, 04:23:13 PM

Title: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Last Hussar on 02 January 2021, 04:23:13 PM
https://youtu.be/QOSf6aN3H2Y
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 02 January 2021, 05:22:13 PM
Great source, thank you.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Orcs on 02 January 2021, 09:02:23 PM
This does of course become completely irrelevant if playing Sunjester and his magic dice!  :)
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Last Hussar on 03 January 2021, 12:24:57 AM
Just sometimes it works against him.

One game of IABSM he put in a textbook attack on a strong point. Absolutely perfect.

I had no one in the bunker.

It was very good though.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: paulr on 03 January 2021, 12:26:55 AM
Or if the Germans don't deploy a single MG, by a convenient landmark, without any supporting troops ;)

Definitely an interesting watch
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: paulr on 03 January 2021, 12:29:55 AM
Quote from: Last Hussar on 03 January 2021, 12:24:57 AM
Just sometimes it works against him.

One game of IABSM he put in a textbook attack on a strong point. Absolutely perfect.

I had no one in the bunker.

It was very good though.

Sounds a bit like my last Spearhead game against Pierre the Shy, I spent a lot of effort and time suppressing his Russian infantry before committing my engineers to clear the minefield

Which didn't exist, he'd deployed all his mines against the other German axis of attack #-o
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Steve J on 03 January 2021, 07:25:12 AM
Very interesting, thanks for sharing :).
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 03 January 2021, 07:30:07 AM
Good stuff - from the kit (gas masks) its 1940/41, also lack of thompson/sten. In action the officer would swap his pistol for an enfeild if he wanted tom survive.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: paulr on 03 January 2021, 07:40:06 AM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 03 January 2021, 07:30:07 AM
Good stuff - from the kit (gas masks) its 1940/41, also lack of thompson/sten. In action the officer would swap his pistol for an enfeild if he wanted tom survive.

The Sergeants commanding the sections were carrying Thompsons with drums, at one point there usefulness at short range and in the assault was discussed. Still very likely to be late 1940/early 1941
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: pierre the shy on 03 January 2021, 08:36:28 AM
Very interesting thanks LH.

Did you note that the 2" mortar was used HE for ranging though it was noted whimsically that "HE can be lethal"?

Seems that the principle use for the 2" mortar was seen to be smoke rounds?

Unlike some training films however it did not shy away from showing freindly casualties.....the final message to Coy HQ lists 2 KIA and 3 WIA incurred to take out the enemy position.

Have to agree that the Platoon Commander should upgrade his firepower - a .38 Webley and 12 rounds of ammo is not likely to do much damage unless the PC gets into hand to hand combat.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 03 January 2021, 09:36:21 AM
It is still primarily for smoke, I was involved in blowing up the last HE rounds in NWD at Leek in 73/4. We were going to fire them off but the 50m visibilty put paid to that. The drain pipe re,mains in service, they just changed the name from 2" to 51mm.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Last Hussar on 03 January 2021, 12:39:39 PM
Quote from: paulr on 03 January 2021, 12:26:55 AM
Or if the Germans don't deploy a single MG, by a convenient landmark, without any supporting troops ;)

Definitely an interesting watch

It was just to show the theory ;D .  It turns out that the actual army is better at learning rules than wargamers - "This new set of rules, shall we try the starter scenario?" - "NO! Let's use aircraft and artillery and engineers!".
Also wargamers telling the soldiers they are doing it wrong!

That was an interesting insight into the 2 inch - why do they carry so few rounds of HE? It appears for ranging. That way you are not obscuring the wrong place, and the enemy aren't alerted too much about the fact you intend to lay smoke. Note the delay between the drop of the bomb and it actually firing.

The nightmare of co-ordination with no radios - after the very flare, 30 seconds of suppressing fire & Smoke, then 1 Section is pretty much by-standers.  The bloke who got shot first must have loved this exercise. " So sarge, what you are saying is I can just lay there for the rest of the exercise and do nothing? Well, I'll give it a go, for King and Country."
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: holdfast on 11 February 2021, 03:07:52 PM
My dad told me that in the Polish Para Bde they used the 2" mortar HE as a direct fire weapon in villages by putting the baseplate against a vertical wall and hurlng the round into the tub. But having no idea of cricket, they found the British grenade impossible to use and much preferred the stick grenade.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Last Hussar on 11 February 2021, 07:16:49 PM
There was a tank kill in Arnhem by British paras using a mortar like that. Not sure of size.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 11 February 2021, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: holdfast on 11 February 2021, 03:07:52 PM
My dad told me that in the Polish Para Bde they used the 2" mortar HE as a direct fire weapon in villages by putting the baseplate against a vertical wall and hurlng the round into the tub. But having no idea of cricket, they found the British grenade impossible to use and much preferred the stick grenade.

Quite a common problem by all accounts.
Much is made of the European war between Tea Drinkers and Coffee drinkers.

The more significant issue of cricketers (and pals who play baseball) against despicable foreign johnnies who probably don't know the LBW rule - is rarely discussed.

And I would contend that this is a significant matter.

Back in Burma there was a Japanese bunker every quarter mile, and each company couldn't rely on a handy Grant tank to post a '75 through the slot.
In most cases the job fell to a plucky Tommy, or brave Indian who'd honed his aim through years of fielding at point, square leg or extra cover.
Those lads could pop an egg through a letterbox form twenty yards, providing poor old Tojo a one way trip back to the pavilion.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: holdfast on 12 February 2021, 09:46:04 AM
The advantage of putting any sort of 2" mortar round into a house was of course that White Phosphorous was a bit dangerous, so it didn't really matter whether it was HE or smoke that you used.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 12 February 2021, 09:52:13 AM
Doing a house clearing exercise I asked the DS why we didn't use smoke inside the house, he demonstrated with a coulored one - you choke.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: holdfast on 12 February 2021, 05:55:20 PM
The problem with Brits and cricket is that no military situation can be described without a cricketing reference. In a NATO HQ in the Balkans I had to beg the Brits to stop referring to Sticky Wickets, fading light, out for a duck and bowling from the gasworks end and tell them just to say what was actually happening in words of as few syllables as possible.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: mollinary on 12 February 2021, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: holdfast on 12 February 2021, 05:55:20 PM
The problem with Brits and cricket is that no military situation can be described without a cricketing reference. In a NATO HQ in the Balkans I had to beg the Brits to stop referring to Sticky Wickets, fading light, out for a duck and bowling from the gasworks end and tell them just to say what was actually happening in words of as few syllables as possible.

If I recall correctly, you missed out "putting them on the back foot", "that was a bit of a googly". and "swinging it both ways".    On second thoughts, perhaps the last one had another meaning which escaped me at the time?
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Westmarcher on 12 February 2021, 07:15:53 PM
Doesn't that last one also have an equivalent in the field of electricity?*

Anyhoo, was it the use of cricket jargon by a British commander (29th Brigade?) in Korea (Imjin River?) that made the U.S. division think the situation wasn't as serious as it actually was?

p.s. Never mind foreigners being confused - I'm a Brit but also a Scotsman ...

* AC/DC
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 12 February 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: holdfast on 12 February 2021, 05:55:20 PM
The problem with Brits and cricket is that no military situation can be described without a cricketing reference. In a NATO HQ in the Balkans I had to beg the Brits to stop referring to Sticky Wickets, fading light, out for a duck and bowling from the gasworks end and tell them just to say what was actually happening in words of as few syllables as possible.

You can't be too careful with Johnny Foreigner sniffing about.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 12 February 2021, 07:48:10 PM
Quote from: mollinary on 12 February 2021, 06:37:13 PM
If I recall correctly, you missed out "putting them on the back foot", "that was a bit of a googly". and "swinging it both ways".    On second thoughts, perhaps the last one had another meaning which escaped me at the time?

Not to mention: "Trying to get his leg over".
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Raider4 on 12 February 2021, 08:14:20 PM
Quote from: holdfast on 12 February 2021, 05:55:20 PM
The problem with Brits and cricket is that no military situation can be described without a cricketing reference. In a NATO HQ in the Balkans I had to beg the Brits to stop referring to Sticky Wickets, fading light, out for a duck and bowling from the gasworks end and tell them just to say what was actually happening in words of as few syllables as possible.

That's cos you were talking to the ruperts. Try talking to people who actually work for a living.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Last Hussar on 12 February 2021, 11:36:55 PM
Quote from: holdfast on 12 February 2021, 05:55:20 PM
The problem with Brits and cricket is that no military situation can be described without a cricketing reference. In a NATO HQ in the Balkans I had to beg the Brits to stop referring to Sticky Wickets, fading light, out for a duck and bowling from the gasworks end and tell them just to say what was actually happening in words of as few syllables as possible.

It's not our fault you don't speak English.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 13 February 2021, 12:36:44 AM
Quote from: Last Hussar on 12 February 2021, 11:36:55 PM
It's not our fault you don't speak English.

I say; IT'S NOT OUR FAULT <pause> YOU CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!


<Shrugs>

Who's a chap got to threaten with the Webley to get a proper cup of tea around here.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: paulr on 13 February 2021, 12:48:16 AM
During a break on a course in the US I was asked by one of the staff running the course how it was going

Without thinking I replied, "Not bad"

Much panic ensued as they tried to work out what they needed to do to improve delivery of the course :o

I then explained that in New Zealand 'not bad' means good or in America very good ;D
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: holdfast on 14 February 2021, 12:09:57 PM
That's cos you were talking to the ruperts. Try talking to people who actually work for a living.

In my experience in the 1980s the young officers were actually better than they thought they were, and in several cases the sergeants weren't as good as they thought they were.
Title: Re: How to conduct a Platoon attack.
Post by: Raider4 on 14 February 2021, 12:31:15 PM
Quote from: holdfast on 14 February 2021, 12:09:57 PM
In my experience in the 1980s the young officers were actually better than they thought they were, and in several cases the sergeants weren't as good as they thought they were.

Oh, I don't doubt it. Sorry, wasn't denigrating anyone in any way.

Just that the people using cricketing terms were going to be the officers.