Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Hi All,

Just trying to get a straw pole on who would attend shows. It might be useful to organisers/ traders. I have given you 2 votes.

I keep thinking that the therat is a little overstated, compared to say Spanish Flu. Yes it is dangerous, but 2-3 times more people died of the flu.

Given my experience of shows, I can't see how they could work in their current format, as everything is jam packed together. So social distancing would be nigh on impossible, even with say a one way system, as the whole browsing and chatting experience as you walked round would cause huge traffic jams. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but that's my take on things.

Also with a son on the extremely clinically vulnerable list and an African wife (so BAME children) there is added risk for us on two levels. Currently we are still pretty much isolating too keep everyone in our household as safe as possible.

I would love to attend a show next year, but until a vaccine is developed, I can't see it happening :(.

I'm very much in the same mind as Steve ! :(

Though, as Ian says, this sod doesn't seem to be 'as dangerous' as Spanish flu.....I'm still VERY wary about social distancing and I'd VERY much prefer to avoid it !

The social distancing in Tesco's is still (for the most part) being observed, but I still get a bit 'twitchy' even there...and that's one of the very few places I visit.
My haircut can stay on hold for the time being. I may try a ponytail style soon ! ;D ;D ;D

Cheers - Phil.

Quote from: ianrs54 on 11 August 2020, 07:19:25 AM
I keep thinking that the therat is a little overstated, compared to say Spanish Flu. Yes it is dangerous, but 2-3 times more people died of the flu.

It's still pretty horrific with long lingering after affects in many people we don't yet fully understand. It seems to cause a weird array of ongoing issues in the lungs, heart, brain and possibly other organs long after the flu stage has passed. Not to mention the death rate of those who end up hospitalised is still high. Spanish flu hit a world ravaged by war, with poor levels of nutrition and healthcare. Had this virus hit back then it may have been just as bad.

Definitely worth remaining cautious...

I generally only go to one - held at a race course (Newbury?).

No way I'd go at the moment.

Well I count myself as VERY lucky to be able to say that last weekend I went to Call to Arms 2020, the local club's convention here in Wellington. No masks or much social distancing, but the COVID-19 situation here in NZ is curently much different to much of the world (long may that continue!!....)

Apart from me keeping well away from the TY competition tables (as a 6mm modern player the sight of all those expensive (and usually very nicely painted) 15mm models crammed hull to hull in "tank parks" or "hind parks" on or in terrain features makes me want to ask the players if they really know what tactics are  >:( ;) ) I had 2 really good days of gaming. Didn't see anything interesting in the bring and buy (95% was GW related stuff) and I will be supporting the only trader who was in attendence next time I am passing his shop on the Kapiti Coast. 

I would however join the general chorus of conservative attendance if I was living in most other parts of the world....stay safe and look forward to the 2021 show circuit, if the situation permits. 

     

There would need to be a vaccine available before I would be allowed to mix with the general population.

I am a cancer survivor as well as nursing a coronary problem.

Quote from: Techno on 11 August 2020, 07:47:09 AM
My haircut can stay on hold for the time being.

Mine too. The thought of someone being that close face-to-face, even if we're both masked & shielded, gives me the willies. Strange how "normal" everyday actions have suddenly become so very, very un-important.

Quote from: Techno on 11 August 2020, 07:47:09 AM
I may try a ponytail style soon !

Hah! Not quite there yet, but if I still haven't had it cut by xmas . . .

It amazes me how some of you guys are still comparing Covid to flu yet none of you are scientists or doctors. They are two different things. There is a vaccine for flu. Until today (see news today about an alleged Russian  vaccine), there has been no vaccine for Covid.   How many times has the country and the whole world been shut down for flu?  What would the death rate be if we simply treated this as flu and didn't take these extraordinary measures? I guarantee it would have spread like wild fire and the death toll would be significantly higher.

I seriously doubt that some wargamers are capable of social distancing so I've only cast one of my votes.

Having ventured out for the first time since February this past weekend, I was shocked by how few people were wearing masks in shops - and the strange looks I got for being properly masked up (FFP3 Mask and "Snood scarf" to "seal" around beard).

I don't think I would attend anything where masks weren't mandatory. I am definitely NOT in the "it's just flu" camp, this SARS Coronavirus is not fully understood and IS deadly! I would rather protect my health AND MORE IMPORTANTLY that of those I am close to.

as I live in Germany I was thinking of going to the Antwerp show in November,
but really cant see the situation being cleared up by then.
also im not really sure a vaccine will really do a lot of good there is too much we don't understand about this COVID.
regards
Sean

Interesting question and some interesting results so far, well over half of the responses are to not attend shows this year or next. 

From an organiser perspective the extra requirements/precautions that need to be implemented are a logistical nightmare and I think this will be the main issue for any wargames events.  We've been putting together a bit of a risk assessment for Battleground in November and so far we've got:

- Face masks must be compulsory and we'd have to refuse entry to anyone that didn't come with one.

- We'd need a one-way system through the hall which would need to be policed by our staff.

- We'd have to stagger the entry with some kind of ticketing system to keep the numbers in the hall to around 100-150 maximum.  The ticketing itself is a bit tricky but we'd also have people complaining when they have to queue outside until the hall empties out.

- We'd need PPE and sanitation stations all over the hall, which is an added cost to deal with.

- We'd need to hire the hall for an extra half-day to allow the traders a bigger window for unloading and packing away. More costs to deal with.

- The venue would have to perform a deep-clean before and after the event to make sure that they've covered their side.

That's a lot of added hassle and the extra costs would mean that we'd be losing money on the event as well.  The traders wouldn't want to stump up any extra cash for what is potentially a large gamble in terms of sales.

With all of that, I can't see shows being able to run until we've got an effective vaccine in place and people feel more secure and comfortable in public spaces again.

I think the only way that shows can go on for the short term is virtual shows rather than physical shows. They won't be economically viable if they have proper safety measures in place and there is a lot of the wargaming public that counts as high risk for serious effects of Covid-19.

Personally when I need to shop or travel on public transport I have been masked since before it was compulsory and I worry about people's complacency about the risk.

Quote- Face masks must be compulsory and we'd have to refuse entry to anyone that didn't come with one.

A tricky one this as the government advice is that people with certain conditions, such as respiratory ones, and young children, don't need to wear them. However they don't define which conditions these are. So as an asthmatic, I could theoretically not wear one and should be allowed entry as I can do in shops (however I do wear one even though it causes me some discomfort). I think until there is a vaccine, sadly the show circuit will be on hold for quite some time.

I am resigned to not visiting a show in 2020.

The show is not something in isolation, it involves travel and the movement of people across areas, which amidst a pandemic is difficult to sensibly justify.

As for threat, it strikes me that the NHS as a whole is frightened of this thing and the government are sufficiently Concerned to have exposed the economy to a debt that our grandchildren will still be carrying ...... that's good enough for me to assist however I can in preventing spread.

******************* ALL PLEASE NOTE ****************************

This is just to discuss If, or how you would be willing to attend Wargames shows. Purely and only that.

PLEASE KEEP ALL COMMENTS RELEVANT TO ATTENDING SHOWS

Comments like "I do not trust wargamers to social Distance" or "I am not prepared to take the risk of using public transport to get there" are fine

Please do not make comments on the general situation, or how you think people view Covid 19. As this is likely to get political and personal and the thread will be locked. Like last time

I would like this thread to be useful to see what needs to be done to make a show viable for all attending.

Leons description of what currently needs to be in place is very informative although I agree it does make Shows look impossible for the next 18 months plus

Pierre the Shy and I were very fortunate to attend our local show Call to Arms last weekend :-[
Two days gaming with about 150 attendees and one trader, a large show by NZ standards

Unfortunately late yesterday 4 Covid-19 cases were confirmed in a single household in Auckland, contact tracing has not yet determined where this infection came from  :o

So Auckland is now in Level 3 lock down and the rest of the country is at Level 2 for the next three days :(

Quote from: paulr on 11 August 2020, 09:04:54 PM
Unfortunately late yesterday 4 Covid-19 cases were confirmed in a single household in Auckland, contact tracing has not yet determined where this infection came from  :o

So Auckland is now in Level 3 lock down and the rest of the country is at Level 2 for the next three days :(

My brother-in-law was in touch earlier tonight about that, have they got any idea yet on the origins of the infection?  That seems very odd for it to just suddenly appear after 100 days of nothing, so I'm hoping it's a regular transmission and not some new facet of Covid that we've not seen before.

Just watched latest news conference from PM and Director General of Health

Currently do not know where the infection has come from; no links to international travel, border workers or isolation or quarantine facilities or workers

Mass testing underway in Auckland to determine if wider spread, genome sequencing being done to see if this can indicate where the infection came from (asking those without symptoms not to volunteer for testing)

Work places of both adults have been closed and all close and casual contacts of the household are being tested

Parliament was due to be dissolved today in the lead up to the September 19 election, this has been deferred until at least Monday to keep all options open

Best of luck, Paul !

If this situation b*ggers up next years shows, as well........

I don't think I've put this idea down here...(for fear of the usual ridicule)...But I know I mentioned it to Leon AGES ago.....

Would a 'virtual' show be any sort of possibility ?

Don't know whether it's feasible or useful, or even possible.... but I just wanted everyone to know that I've been thinking outside the box :-*.....'Cos I was feeling left out in the other thread.

Cheers - Phil ;)

Should be, used teams for work and it's reasonably easy, even Phil could cope, and had zoom sess with Rich Crawley a montyh or so ago which worked well.

They did a virtual show for I think 'The Joy of Six' (can't be certain) on Facebook, where there were updates, videos etc throughout the day. I was thinking that maybe those interested could put on a game at home and either put up a video link (way beyond my skills or inclination!!!) or an AAR, info on what they have bought 'at the show', along the lines of what Norm did a few months ago. i would be up for putting on a game and then an AAR on my Blog for those interested.

PSC have done a few demo games of MeG on line, so should work.

I know a few people have been using digital tools like Tabletop Simulator and Cassel to run conventions and tournaments, e.g.



And Simon Miller ran a TtS! Tournament a little while back using it too.

Not quite the same as physically pushing things around but I gather those who participated enjoyed them.

Quote from: Techno on 12 August 2020, 08:00:03 AM
Would a 'virtual' show be any sort of possibility ?

It's something we'll be looking at I think, as it's looking unlikely that Battleground will go ahead now.  I'm not sure what that would entail but we can certainly hit social media with trader adverts, photos of previous year's games, etc.

I wont go to a show that treats me like a diseased leper....

I won't go to one that doesn't

While I appreciate we only have a small sample, I think the most telling result is the 20% that are not intending to attend a show this year OR next year.

A loss of 20% of the footfall at a show would be a big impact I think.  I suspect that larger shows like Salute would feel a bigger percentage loss of footfall due to the restrictions they would have to impose and the fact people would feel more at risk at a larger show with more people.

Salute's got the added impact of international travel as well, there must be at least 10%-15% of the Salute visitors come from Europe and further afield.

Hi,
I won't be going to a show until I'm vaccinated against Covid. I'm thinking of my family as well as myself, my son in law, parents and wife are all in the "shielding" group plus we provide child care for our 17 month old granddaughter.

Best wishes,
Martin

Quote from: Ithoriel on 12 August 2020, 06:05:15 PM
I won't go to one that doesn't

I'm absolutely with you, Mike.

Sad (?)...But true.  ;)

Cheers - Phil

I regret it may be a year or two before I next attend a show.

I fit a popular gamer demographic being:

• Over 50
• Over weight
• Over the average in Y chromosomes

All three constitute elevated risk factors, and then there's the Asthma.


It's sad to miss 1 or 2 highlights of my gaming year.
A good show, its traders and exhibitors can really inspire.
I hope the many unique traders pull through the tough times.

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 13 August 2020, 10:10:43 PM
I hope the many unique traders pull through the tough times.

I think we'd all heartily agree with that, Steve.

(And stay safe, Matey.)

Cheers - Phil  :)

Fortuneatly shows are only a small part of the traders income these days, most is done online, as no doubt Leon can confirm.

Maybe 'Virtual shows' could be the way to go, then. :-\

I'll have to learn how to use zoom (?).

Cheers - Phil :)

Orcs, I think another option to add to the poll could have been 'I won't be visiting a show until a vaccine is available'. That may well prove to be the bigger indicator of intention.

I agree Norm. Given the way things are going with a 'second wave' and our family situation, I wouldn't feel safe or comfortable until a vaccine was available.

Quote from: Techno on 14 August 2020, 07:37:53 AM

I'll have to learn how to use zoom (?).

Cheers - Phil :)

It's a nice easy one honest Phil  ;)

I bet I could make it difficult.  ;)

Cheers - Phil

No tghe stone tablets knock together easy !

I won't be going to a show, or any other public gathering, for the foreseeable future.  COVID kills people in my age group and my wife has cancer no she's been shielding, and will continue to do so until a vaccine is available.  Comparisons to the flu epidemic are flawed, simply because medical science has advanced somewhat over the past 100 years and, besides, COVID isn't over yet.