I have recently been blogging about putting a game onto a pinboard, those blogs have culminated in my first pinboard game, using Kallistra 4" hexes and home brew rules. here is the link for those interested. http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/10mm-hex-based-wwii-aar.html#more
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Looking good so far Norm and I liked the write up a lot :).
Great idea for a blog Norman. Like it a lot.
Good work Norm nice stuff
Nice blog as well, nice to see one with a readable font as well
Looking at the pic at the top, it seems to be coming along nicely.
Looking good!
Callistra hexon is great!
Good looking game there Norm, and nice blog too.
Have you considered using Squad Leader rules? http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/243/advanced-squad-leader (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/243/advanced-squad-leader)
Have to say my first thought was "Ooh! Memoir '44"
Does look good right enough.
Thanks all. I have a strong nostalgic connection with Squad Leader (basic from 1977 ) and would love MMP just to redo 4th Edition with super graphics - but I know that is never going to happen.
Central to my small set up is keeping the movement rates tightly controlled and SL with 4 to 6 MP's seems to need at least one full sized board to 'breathe' properly.
I had looked at Ghost Panzer for conversion, but that also needs quite a bit of hex space.
My eyes and mind can't accept hex terrain as a substitute for reality. Not trying to convert anyone else, or denigrate others' efforts, I must add.
I think how the eye / brain visualises the tabletop is essential to enjoyment.
I have been a life long boardgamer, so to me the hexes are subconsciously invisible. I just find myself reading the battlefield in a natural way, but I can fully appreciate that some gamers cannot get past the aesthetics of the hex. I have just bought a boardgame that only has the corners of each hex represented, the idea being that there is less hex on the board so the hex is less obtrusive, however to my 'eyes, it just looks like someone has thrown a load of caltrops across the map, because it is new to my visual appreciation and looks too obvious.
Without trying to 'sell' the hex, it removes the need to measure (all done by eyeball), it defines the location exactly - so that hex is woodland and the figure is in woodland regardless of what position it is in - so no millimetre precision when placing and moving units. Also a defined location means that things like blast areas for artillery are easier to calculate, removing the need for blast templates. Indeed, all templates go, no fire angle templates or wheeling templates or armour perspective templates etc.
But I agree, it will unlikely look a thing of beauty, but then in truth few games really are.
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Quote from: Norm on 05 May 2014, 04:53:22 AM
But I agree, it will unlikely look a thing of beauty, but then in truth few games really are.
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You clearly haven't seen my armies in action! ;)
I like the idea of hexes, and the Kallistra stuff is nice but cost always puts me off as does the very obvious join between hexes. I'm quite happy with Peter Pigs grid square approach on PBI, Squarebashing etc though, either marked on cloth or using "corner markings" and plonking down "terrain markers" for them (I find telegraph poles are great for a couple of lines of corners!). So I dunno why hexes rub me the wrong way :-\
Quote from: toxicpixie on 05 May 2014, 08:12:04 AM
I like the idea of hexes, and the Kallistra stuff is nice but cost always puts me off as does the very obvious join between hexes. I'm quite happy with Peter Pigs grid square approach on PBI, Squarebashing etc though, either marked on cloth or using "corner markings" and plonking down "terrain markers" for them (I find telegraph poles are great for a couple of lines of corners!). So I dunno why hexes rub me the wrong way :-\
I agree completely about hexes but also about grid markings. To my mind it's a little too rigid and therefore too much like chess -everywhere I look I see the lines. But in saying that, the Kohima game put on by Hertsblue and his club at Cavalier was very impressive. Also, another mental thing is that I was weaned on large scale club games in Southend in the early '70's and that initial impression has stuck with me ever since. I'm not a great lover of boardgames either, again too regimented (pun intended). But as you say, each to his own.
Judging from some TMP post, Memoire '44 and Commands and Colors games seem to be giving a cross over point for figure and hex fans, though I am not sure whether the people doing that are mainly boardgamers wanting a 'prettier' look to their game, or figure gamers wanting to use their armies in these more 'euro' centric game systems - perhaps a mix of both.
Interestingly, the boardgame scene and the associated hex is dominated by the U.S. market / production, yet on the figures side, the shipping costs of getting the Kallistra product into the U.S. seems to have made the hex for figures have more of a European uptake.
The popularity of Martin's PBI rules and his other 'square' related rules is also linked to the fact that the games are intended to be played on relatively small tables with smaller armies and it is easier to make a home made square grid than a home made hex grid.
I think it depends largely on whether you use the hexes as "movement limiters" or, as we do, simply ignore them except as elements of the terrain. Personally, I'm not sure I could play the hexes as a giant boardgame, but with free movement the brain just paints them out.
Very nice blog Norm.
Cheers - Phil.
I have added a brief overview of a re-run of that scenario before making changes, please see the last part of the post (under the sub-heading 'substantial edit'). I enjoyed the second game more than the first.
Link http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/10mm-hex-based-wwii-aar.html#more
There are now 4 substantial edits to the bottom of the post which show the evolution of the scenario through play-testing. plus along the way, the rules have had some firm tweaking, giving a better result on the most recent game.
As far as C&C & Memoir44 games go, the ones on BGG who like the figures are usually Ameritrash players who want to add miniatures 'bling' to everything. Just look at Kickstarter projects - There's a sure fire way to make a fortume on Kickstarter:
1) Include miniatures
2) sit back & watch the money roll in.
Hexes are a different matter - I primarily play hex wargames anyway, but if I play with toy soldiers I find them intrusive.
I think we are just starting to see a small cross over between traditional board gamers, traditional miniaturists and Euro gamers.
I am hopeful that family centred games that have figures may just help the world of figure gaming to infiltrate into more peoples lives. You just need a trigger to press the right buttons and turn a brief acquaintance into a lifetime passion.
OK, what is a "Euro" gamer? Being in California and about as far away from Europe as I can get (sending this from Pasadena) I haven't heard this term before.
Euro games - things like Settlers of Catan, Carcassonne, Tigris and Euphrates or Power Grid. There are lots of others.
They tend to be family oriented, not overtly military, all players remain in game throughout and reasonably fast and simple to play.
Usually a fair bit of interaction, though often no way to directly damage opponents.
Usually more strategy and less luck dependent.
Hexes say to me "operational level" for a game, so it's interesting to read you reports at 1:1/skirmish level using them! Dunno why it feels that way so much, as I play and like PBI which uses squares at a 1:1 figure scale!
Keep posting, I enjoy watching rules develop :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 05 June 2014, 04:51:24 PM
Euro games - things like Settlers of Catan, Carcassonne, Tigris and Euphrates or Power Grid. There are lots of others.
They tend to be family oriented, not overtly military, all players remain in game throughout and reasonably fast and simple to play.
Usually a fair bit of interaction, though often no way to directly damage opponents.
Usually more strategy and less luck dependent.
I play the first two frequently but never realised I was a "Euro Gamer". And if you think they're not luck-dependent you've never rolled a die in anger - that's my excuse for losing anyway.
Also often referred to as German-style games, it's not that there's no element of luck just that it's less prevalent than in the likes of the traditional Waddington's games.
I play far more board games than figure games these days so I suppose I've picked up the jargon.
Just bought La Citta, Mousquetaires Du Roy, Priests of Ra and Vasco Da Gama for £9.99 each from The Works online Rio Grande Games sale. These would all count as Eurogames
I hate to think how many games we have between the ten of us who game together regularly.
The usual definition of a Euro/German game is that there's no direct conflict between players. They may compete for limited resources, or may temporarily take control of a nutral/opposition party (like the thief in Catan), but they do not attack one another.
Hello!
I allow myself this little intervention is too a big fan of hexagons, taking a little time, little things to make nice eyes that are even more realistic than-conventional roads slick with gondollent and move all the time , rivers above the levels of the battlefield, and the hills that I have never seen in nature .......
and not to mention the many benefits during the games, more discution mm and angle of orientation, placement or type of land .........
Here are some pictures of my land in progress:
(http://sm1.photorapide.com/membres/156/photos/9f9z0l.jpg) (http://www.photorapide.com/index.php?photoName=9f9z0l.jpg&photoId=356993)
(http://sm1.photorapide.com/membres/156/photos/qiq71q.jpg)
(http://www.photorapide.com/index.php?photoName=qiq71q.jpg&photoId=344751)(http://sm1.photorapide.com/membres/156/photos/cokqjw.jpg) (http://www.photorapide.com/index.php?photoName=cokqjw.jpg&photoId=335136)
(http://sm1.photorapide.com/membres/156/photos/bec0zx.jpg) (http://www.photorapide.com/index.php?photoName=bec0zx.jpg&photoId=329016)
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That is just lovely, thanks for sharing. Did you make the small walled farm yourself?
I like the idea of the tray to contain the game, it looks good, while serving the obvious purpose of locking the styrene hexes into place.
Superb terrain. As long as it looks good I don't mind how a game is fought, hexes, squares, or blank, the idea is to fight and enjoy.
Very impressive :-bd =D>
Quote from: mad lemmey on 07 June 2014, 06:13:23 AM
Superb terrain. As long as it looks good I don't mind how a game is fought, hexes, squares, or blank, the idea is to fight and enjoy.
Yep, I second that. :)
Excellent work 8). I love the flowing river tile and the scratch built farmhouse complex.