Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Non-Pendraken Stuff => Topic started by: Leman on 21 April 2014, 06:48:51 PM

Title: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 21 April 2014, 06:48:51 PM
A friend of mine is putting together a late C15th/early C16th Venetian army in 28mm for fighting Impetus battles. I decided to oppose him with a Milanese army. I already had the makings of a couple of Swiss pike blocks, so I started with those.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/28mm%20Milanese%20Army%20LateC15th%20-%20Early%20C16th/IMG_0979_zpsc49e0fa7.jpg)

I then had a go at a base of Milanese light infantry.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/28mm%20Milanese%20Army%20LateC15th%20-%20Early%20C16th/IMG_0976_zps26ad7ef5.jpg)

I then tried out some plastic Perry knights for the Famiglia Ducale. This is how they started.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/28mm%20Milanese%20Army%20LateC15th%20-%20Early%20C16th/IMG_0975_zps99c0b14b.jpg)

Finally, here they are based up with some Old Glory gensdarmes standing in for the moment. Next up will be halberd skirmish support for the Swiss.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/28mm%20Milanese%20Army%20LateC15th%20-%20Early%20C16th/IMG_0978_zpsff8991ed.jpg)
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Ithoriel on 21 April 2014, 07:17:03 PM
Very nicely done and very impressive.

Some beautiful bits of detailing.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 April 2014, 07:22:13 PM
Brilliant
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 21 April 2014, 07:39:02 PM
Thanks guys. This is quite a big project and I may have to put the 10mm on the back burner for a couple of months. Now lets go and see what Auntie Beeb has made of Jamaica Inn.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: FierceKitty on 21 April 2014, 11:17:18 PM
Love renaissance armies. :)
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Steve J on 22 April 2014, 06:41:49 AM
Renaissance Italy is certainly colourful in terms of their armies 8). Great job BTW.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Techno on 22 April 2014, 07:00:43 AM
Love 'em ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 22 April 2014, 08:40:31 AM
Now I'm working on a base of Swiss halberdiers for one of the pike blocks. I base 5 (4 shown) on a skirmish base which has impetus. these are GW plastic figures bought several years ago when these were the only hard plastic figures available and were still reasonably priced. I have given them a sort of uniform of cantonal colours to differentiate them from Landsknechts, using the Foundry Paint System, Bavarian Blue, which I also used on some of the Artizan pikemen shown in the earlier photo. I also base infantry on pennies for painting and then base the pennies directly to my Impetus bases.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/28mm%20Milanese%20Army%20LateC15th%20-%20Early%20C16th/IMG_0998_zpsc2d1f010.jpg)

Not being a competition gamer I have gone with the club doctrine of using 100mm frontage for 28mm multiple base games. We now have a number of armies based up in this way with which we play Dux Bellorum, Impetus and the club's own rule set DB Big.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: FierceKitty on 22 April 2014, 10:17:35 AM
Everyone (including me) yields to the temptation to put Swiss in cantonal colours.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 22 April 2014, 10:42:30 AM
Bloody hell, they're nice :D

Italian Wars stuff is always so colourful. We've done some in 15mm and I'm tempted to join in, the big pike blocks for Impetus really grabbed me. However, as I just sold off almost all my 15mm I've resisted!

But that tempts me to 28mm despite a lack of opponents :D
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: FierceKitty on 22 April 2014, 12:23:58 PM
Italian wars were my first Pendraken armies too (with a handful of Irregular Miniatures).
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 22 April 2014, 12:37:20 PM
I just like the look of massed unit bases, with loads of pike cramming on behind with the "dopplesoldners" or command (or more pike!) in the front en masse. Using a deep unit base you can also set the figures at the back and have the lowered pikes extending forwards to the front base edge so you can line them up against the enemy without tangling up, or breaking pikes in transit etc :)
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 22 April 2014, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: toxicpixie on 22 April 2014, 12:37:20 PM
I just like the look of massed unit bases, with loads of pike cramming on behind with the "dopplesoldners" or command (or more pike!) in the front en masse. Using a deep unit base you can also set the figures at the back and have the lowered pikes extending forwards to the front base edge so you can line them up against the enemy without tangling up, or breaking pikes in transit etc :)

Yes that's what I went for with the second block; there are mainly Old Glory Swiss but with a few Foundry Swiss with levelled pikes pushing through from the back.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 22 April 2014, 05:19:40 PM
Really like those DP, keep up the greatness. 8)
Will
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 23 April 2014, 07:55:17 PM
Each time I see this I get seriously tempted to not buy anymore odd bits of ACW for our off and on Fire & Fury games and go for the odd BA of 10mm landsknectes for a slow foray into Italian Wars...
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 24 April 2014, 12:38:52 PM
Go for it. The 10mm ones are really nice figures, although personally I think the late medieval knights make much better gendarmes unless you plan to fight post- 1550.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 24 April 2014, 01:56:45 PM
You rate the LAN codes then?

I'm always a bit put off by no piccies, and from what I can google it looked like the LAN pike code was a single pose. Quite a nice one, but a single pose nonetheless!

Any suggestions from the gallery for other codes to mix in with the Landsknechts proper? Or if they're multiple poses... 
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 24 April 2014, 08:05:43 PM
ELM 1 mtd. knights on barded horses - 3 poses
ELM 9 pikemen are fully armoured with kneeling front rank and standing rear rank
ELM 23 mtd crossbow - useful figure for Italians, French or Swiss
ELM 28 mtd knights on unbarded horses - 3 poses and really nice figures - suitable for up to Pavia
ELM 38 mtd generals are two different armoured figures
ER 10 European pikeman - 2 or 3 poses and excellent for French, Italian, Spanish
EL 10 Stradiot - perfectly useable for early C16th as well.

Certainly is plenty of stuff in there for replicating most troop types of the Italian Wars.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: fred. on 24 April 2014, 08:49:21 PM
LAN pikes are 2 poses, one in slashed clothing and floppy hat, the other is in what looks like mail, with a sort of fez style hat.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MM3Lrce0548/UwntpI6XjoI/AAAAAAAACWU/QQTvrMxeZ9U/s800/IMG_3581.jpg)

This pike block has lots of LAN code pikes in the middle ranks. Front rank are armoured pikes.
The ones in Morions are from the Elizabethan range, the ones in 'flat caps' crop up in a couple of packs - including the medieval pikes.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: fred. on 24 April 2014, 08:51:05 PM
Remembered I had a bare metal photo of LAN1 pikes

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8VIVY4KESsM/THoQhV7AYtI/AAAAAAAACns/dlWKOgTm06c/s1152/photo.JPG)
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 24 April 2014, 09:08:23 PM
Brilliant, nice one both of you :)

I shall be ordering positively soon!

Fred - that's five wide by seven deep on... A 40mm by 60mm base? Looks spot on, exactly what I was hoping to come up with :D

I might go  five by five though for normal sized units and do a larger base size for large ones (as I think I'll be using Pike & Shotte, or possibly Impetus...).
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: fred. on 24 April 2014, 09:45:37 PM
Glad to help

Yes it's 40x60mm base. It's a good block of figures, your count sounds about right, by going with a single bigger base it allows a bit more flexibility on ranking up
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: kev1964 on 25 April 2014, 05:43:44 AM
Excellent painting, great looking army,



kev
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Techno on 25 April 2014, 06:24:24 AM
Seconded !!
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Hertsblue on 25 April 2014, 08:29:13 AM
Yes, you can't beat 28 mm for detail. And those are beautifully painted, DP.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 25 April 2014, 08:18:12 PM
First Swiss halberdiers now ready for basing.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/28mm%20Milanese%20Army%20LateC15th%20-%20Early%20C16th/IMG_0999_zpse42ebad7.jpg)

Also remembered I had recently completed the first T unit of Milanese arquebusiers (The Assault Group). They are quite sombre as I want them to double up as the Black Band.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/IMG_1000_zpsa1f2671f.jpg)
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: paulr on 25 April 2014, 08:28:25 PM
Stunning  =D> =D> =D>
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Techno on 25 April 2014, 09:24:38 PM
Brilliant !  :-bd

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 25 April 2014, 10:13:46 PM
Love the Swiss guy with the beard, I've a mate looks just like that :D
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: FierceKitty on 26 April 2014, 12:16:23 AM
Sp does my sister's NYM (Nice Young Man...actually, he's 55).
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Hertsblue on 26 April 2014, 08:25:21 AM
If the Black Bands are those of Giovanni dei Medici you need a special rule that says if the boss gets wounded everybody goes home - as they did at Pavia.  :-q :-q :-q
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Techno on 26 April 2014, 09:45:34 AM
Sorry to be an ignorant oik again, all :-[ :-[
But could anyone explain why the figures' left hands grip over the shaft of the halberd, rather than under ?
Would it make the halberd easier to use as a 'stabbing' weapon if held like this ?
Genuine question from a thicky.  :-[

I was getting very strange looks from Mrs T as I wandered around the house....arms out....holding an imaginary halberd, and twisting my left wrist back and forth to try and figure it out. :-\

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 26 April 2014, 10:26:03 AM
Cheers for pack info & figure piccies, ordered some stuff today. I'm "bath tubbing" it for a small & portable ish game so pike are four by four on 40mm square bases whilst foot & cavalry line will be 40mm by 20mm, 5-8 figures depending on lighter troops to battle line and four for mounted.

Not quite the mass effect my megalomania pointed me to (like 64 strong pike units in an eight by eight formation!) but test basing it suggests it'll look the part acceptably, be cost efficient and hopefully be enough to interest the club mates!
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 26 April 2014, 05:18:50 PM
Citadel designer would know the answer to that one. I suspect it mimics the way some Swiss pike used their pikes overarm, but that's just a guess.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 26 April 2014, 08:14:41 PM
Banging halberd drill into google gives some good links, the first of which has so e evolutions that I *think* might generate that grip - http://bryn-gwlad.ansteorra.org/baronialguard/HalberdDrills.pdf

Might be to put more force into driving the point down into the target and driving them down with it, pinning them ready for a bit of murder on the muddy floor?
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Hertsblue on 26 April 2014, 08:22:12 PM
I always understood that the halberd was wielded in a figure-of-eight movement so that the power stroke was diagonally across the body. Charles the Bold of Burgundy was killed by a Swiss halberdier whose stroke split him from shoulder to crotch in spite of full plate armour. Obviously, halberdiers had to operate in very loose order to avoid killing each other.   
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: toxicpixie on 26 April 2014, 09:37:35 PM
That would fit with the drill manual and the big downward top of right shoulder sweep down to left foot, I think...
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Techno on 27 April 2014, 07:23:20 AM
Thanks Guys. :)
What you've said makes a lot of sense !
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: nikharwood on 28 July 2014, 09:28:48 AM
These are beautifully done - and really helpful with my thinking for Italian Wars (using Pendraken though)  :)
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 28 July 2014, 11:17:49 AM
I'm going to put my 10mm late medievals a few years earlier as mid-C15th condottieri armies.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Leman on 25 October 2016, 06:36:54 PM
Well, back on message with this lot again. Inspiration coming from To the Strongest. I've been in touch with Simon Miller (the author) and he has kindly sentt me his amendments for the Italian Wars, which are very interesting and include some nice little tweaks for the period. Thus inspired I got out my bare metal Romagnol pikemen (Redoubt) in their skirted tunics and ancient Greek-style helmets. Tried them out on some of Simon's TtS 15cm style bases (they are irregular around the edges and designed to take mini-magnets for safer storage and transportation). This is all panning out really nicely.

Out shopping in Southport this afternoon and thought I would pop into Wargames  and pick up a couple of Vallejo blues. Then I wondered if they had any of the Perrys' plastic late C15th/early C16th light cavalry in. Lo and behold there, nestled among the boxes of Warlord Games offerings, was one solitary box of Perrys' light cavalry: successful mission!
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: SV52 on 25 October 2016, 07:27:17 PM
Excellent work old boy. Gotta love the Italian Wars for colour and variety. 
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: FierceKitty on 26 October 2016, 12:50:02 AM
Lovely period.
Title: Re: 28mm Milanese Army
Post by: Norm on 26 October 2016, 04:24:07 AM
Really lovely and inspirational.