Quote from: fsn on 21 April 2014, 06:10:42 PM
Point blank range great, but what's her accuracy like at 200 yards?
Lessons from Legolas?
She needs to count better ;) keeps reaching back when quiver is empty
Bloody hell we're all picky today! Wouldn't want to get on her bad side unless I had a n+a few spare mates with me where n is the number I arrows she's got to hand :D
most archers if you run at them with an axe or similar lose there accuracy for some reason
Working on the musketry principle, I'm not sure it would matter; If you've got 100 archers firing at a Napoleonic battalion at that speed I know who I'd back!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1KC1Os-_NE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1KC1Os-_NE)
:D
Quote from: Last Hussar on 21 April 2014, 10:47:16 PM
Working on the musketry principle, I'm not sure it would matter; If you've got 100 archers firing at a Napoleonic battalion at that speed I know who I'd back!
That's the old study about how if the Anglo army had longbows at Waterloo the French would have been devastated and broken in the first half hour etc.
Of course, if they'd had longbows the French would probably have had proper Gendarmes and mercenary crossbowmen, and under a commander who didn't let them screw up... unless his piles/wallpaper poisoning were playing him up...
What weight of bow is she drawing?
That's slow by Sassanid standards
The thing is that all of these are under controlled conditions and as Sandanista says, distraction is a key factor. Also if they can fire 10 arrows in as many seconds that means that withing two minutes they are going be no good to anybody, (allowing for 60 arrows carried). We will never really have a clue on how effective all these super-techniques were unless we can invent a time machine and/or see them in a real live action combat situation. Any volunteers? Till then I reckon we should stay with best guess.
The bow is maybe around 50 lb draw weight, I recognose the design. I used to manage around 20 arrows a minute, not up to her speed, but with a much bigger (but lighter draw weight) bow. The trick isn't the shooting, that's easy - it's the nocking the arrow that's impressive.
Anyway, I shall not be picking a fight with her.
Whilst pressure degrades performance, if you're using that in anger I suspect you'd cope with it. If soldiers didn't every army would immediately fall apart on first contact. Or, you may have an axe and be charging, but running through an arrow storm with your comrades screaming and bleeding around you is a bit different to chopping a defenceless tree down :D
And the baggage train has wagons/pack horses with pannier after pannier of spare arrows, and arrow boys to run back and forth with them, and scour the field for usable spares in between pushes.
Of course, that's not to say archery of any stripe always wins. It's usually down to the armed rugby scrum in the mud and the blood that actually finishes things, whether mounted or afoot...
Edit:
Quote from: FierceKitty on 22 April 2014, 10:32:40 AM
Anyway, I shall not be picking a fight with her.
Very wise, neither shall I :D
Don't you just love redheads!
I was thinking about horse archers darting in, firing off a few volleys at that rate, then trotting back to their own lines for replenishment.
Each to his own then.
It takes all sorts! I think FSN. Is only interested in red heads if they come with a Centurion ;)
Quote from: fsn on 22 April 2014, 03:58:46 PM
I was thinking about horse archers darting in, firing off a few volleys at that rate, then trotting back to their own lines for replenishment.
Which is what Sassanian 'shower shooting' is all about - and as I said the clip is slow compared to that achieved. Whether you need to change rules to accommodate the tactic rather depends on what rules you're using though 8)
Well it won't affect my WoR armies at least - wrong sort of bow.
These are very impressive feats of individual prowess but I'm not convinced they are particularly relevant to ancient warfare in general and wargaming in particular.
Military archery isn't about individual prowess but mass effect of hundreds or thousands of men shooting several arrows a minute into a relatively small space to achieve a decisive effect at a relatively long distance, this is easy to say but seems suprisingly difficult to achieve historically. Most ancient armies used archery to a limited extent but the number who relied on it as a major offensive arm is rather limited. The most obvious ones being several of the middle eastern bronze age nations (Egyptians, Assyrians and Persians), then not much for the next fifteen hundred years with the exceptioon of Indians until the longbow comes to prominence in the late thirteenth century. I've missed horse archery out because that seems to be a development particular to the steppe nomads and could be seen as a separate tradition in its own right.
As to why massed military archery is relatively rare is a tread on it's own but there would appear to be two main starnds, technical and social.
Technically a state would need to make and stockpile thousands of bows and arrows, even simple self bows are quite sophisticated and the need to stock pile tens of thousands of arrows probably repressents a substantial cost. Basically it's easier to make a spear and shield than a bow and arrows.
Socially it takes time to train and organise the large numbers needed to make the bow an effective weapon and when the massed archers reach the battle field organisation and discipline to use them effectively. It's interesting that most armies which used massed archery are also those with a lot of central control and organisation.
Quote from: toxicpixie on 22 April 2014, 10:37:34 AM
Whilst pressure degrades performance, if you're using that in anger I suspect you'd cope with it. If soldiers didn't every army would immediately fall apart on first contact. Or, you may have an axe and be charging, but running through an arrow storm with your comrades screaming and bleeding around you is a bit different to chopping a defenceless tree down :
If your mates and you each have a Roman scutum and a helmet, and the guys behind you have the same, I suspect that the archers wouldn't hang around until you got to 10 yards.
Depends if they feel they can shoot them down, and are then prepared to mix it up with the left overs... and if the guys with the swords are willing and able to keep closing...
Legionaries at their peak are a good example for the guy with a sword side, there's not a lot they were overly concerned about :D
Parthians or other bowmen on horses, maybe!