I'm pretty sure it was Matt who asked about this.... so here's the basic brief I've got for the revamp of this particular range.
Legionaries - pilum/sword x 2
Auxiliaries - spear/sword x 2
Auxiliary bowmen x 2
Command - (Officer, Standard, Musician)
Cavalry with spear x 3 (Checking to see if there might have been a mounted musician)
Mounted General
Ballista crew x 3 (to go with a (the) new ballista
Onager crew x 2 (to go with new crossbow)
Marian Legionaries x 2
Eastern Legionaries x 2
Praetorian Guard x 2
Spanish slinger x 2 ?
German Javelin. x 2 ?
The last two may not need 'remaking' if there are suitable figures already.
Hope to have some piccies up in the next few days.
Cheers - Phil
cheers Phil, really looking forward to these to add some variety to my existing legions.
Also hopeful of Spanish and Gauls soon :)
Dacians next...?
I've seen the future and it is ancient.
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 11 April 2014, 07:52:31 AM
I've seen the future and it is ancient.
Unlike Phil, who's seen the past.... (I know, I was there!)
Picky, I know, but the ballista is the big crossbow and the onager is the stone thrower that looks like a mousetrap designed by Heath Robinson.
Interesting list though, more temptation heading my way :-)
:D
Must finish my Later Romans first...
just a thought..
QuoteSpanish slinger x 2 ?
German Javelin. x 2 ?
The last two may not need 'remaking' if there are suitable figures already.
IIRC these are catered for in other ranges. Could that free up the budget for an additional pose for Legion and Auxilia, and maybe Preatorian? (I know I'm a cheeky wotsit but Any Imperial army will have shed loads of these and it would be nice to have some good variety)
Entirely up to Leon, Matt. ;)
If the man says yes.....I'll be more than happy to do some additional poses. :)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Hertsblue on 11 April 2014, 07:58:23 AM
Unlike Phil, who's seen the past.... (I know, I was there!)
I'm trying to remember the battle where we first met , Ray......One of the ones in ancient Egypt, or the Roman invasion of 'Britain'. ;)
Cheers - Phil
The Battle of Megiddo?
Wasn't it Cleopatra who introduced us? (I told her that Mark Anthony bloke was no good for her)
As overhead by local slave in Julius Caesar's home
Hersblue: You know Techno, they say Caesar's wife is above suspicion
Techno: (Whilst hurriedly pulling on tunic) Really?...Well....I've put an end to all that nonsense!
Quote from: Hertsblue on 11 April 2014, 10:30:39 AM
Wasn't it Cleopatra who introduced us? (I told her that Mark Anthony bloke was no good for her)
No........I remember now, Ray.
It was at one of Tony Ackland's first art exhibitions in that cave at El Castillo.....Seems like only yesterday.
Cheers - Phil
Not to be picky but what do you mean by Imperial Rome?
This period of Roman history ran from 25BC through to the final collapse of the west and the eastern emergence of Byzantium. The Roman army went through significant change during those 500years.
The early period follows the Triumverate and the terrible civil wars and saw the army change from the Marian model to the reformed structures of the Augustinian reforms. This was the classic 'lorica segmentata' period with 'classic' legionaries, supported by formed auxiliaries.
UNITS
Auxiliary cohorts
Legionaries
Auxiliary sagitarii
Ballistae
Equites cataphractarii
Equites cohorts
Equites sagitarii
Numidian light horse
Onagers
However, by around 200AD central control was shaky at best. The legions were increasingly rebellious and broke up to be replaced by irregular auxiliaries - often armed and fighting in their native styles.
UNITS
Auxiliaries
Legionaries
Poor legionaries
Auxiliary archers
Ballistae
Clibanarii
Equites alares
Equites cataphractarii
Equites Illyricani
Equites sagitarii
Onagers
East only
Border horse archers
Sarmatians
By 325AD, we're talking about Rome as a fractured empire. The west is falling and the east becoming 'eastern' or Byzantine in character.
UNITS
Auxilia palatina
Legionaries
Legionarii
Auxilia comitatensis
Auxilia pseudocomitatensis
Ballistae
City militia
Clibanarii
Gothic mercenaries
Hun or Alan mercenaries
Onagers
Skirmishers
Vexillatio Illyricani
Vexillatio sagitarii
Auxilia palatina sagitarii
West only
Vexillatio comitatensis
Vexillatio palatina
East only
Cataphractarii
Scythed chariots
Then in the final 'decline and fall' period, central control has collapsed and 'Rome' moved to the east. The auxiliaries are usually replaced by foederati (foreign mercenaries, e.g. Saxons).
UNITS
Auxilia palatina
Foederati
Foederati cavalry
Isaurians
Auxilia comitatensis
Auxilia palatina sagitarii
Ballistae
Equites
Equites Illyricani
Equites sagitarii
Hun or Alan mercenaries
Legionarii
East only
Clibanarii
Four very different armies.
Maybe we should be referring to Phil's work as 'Early Imperial Roman' or 'Julio-Claudian and Dynastic Principate' up to c200. This is covered by the original range that Phil is replacing I guess. ;)
The next group are 'Middle Imperial Roman' or 'Imperial Anarchy'. Not covered at present.
The last phase is 'Later Imperial Roman' or 'Decline and Fall' according to the ever wrong Gibbon. These are wonderfully covered by Clib's sculpts.
Then if you need to you can add 'Patrician' or Early Byzantine, but to the Romans it would have been 'The Army' and 'The Empire'.
If I understand correctly, Will's got it spot on.
I'm basically 'revamping' the old range.
Hopefully have some photo's up early next week for everyone to have a look at. ;)
Cheers - Phil
Whilst not technically correct, the term "Imperial Romans" is at least one that most wargamers can relate to.
Roma Aeterna!
I'm pretty much with Mad Lemmey.
For me Imperial Roman covers the period from Augustus to Romulus Augustulus and is split into three rough periods - early, middle, late.
It is bounded at one end by Republican Roman and at the other by Patrician Roman/ Early Byzantine.
There are several boundary periods where the armies morph from one form to another..
Quote from: Ithoriel on 11 April 2014, 08:44:03 AM
Picky, I know, but the ballista is the big crossbow and the onager is the stone thrower that looks like a mousetrap designed by Heath Robinson.
Not picky at all, I.....Sorry, my mistake.... reading the printed out list, before my eyes had started working properly that morning.
Also...apologies for not noticing that before. :-[
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Hertsblue on 13 April 2014, 08:42:29 AM
Whilst not technically correct, the term "Imperial Romans" is at least one that most wargamers can relate to.
Not incorrect, surely, just too broad.
First piccy....2 X Aux Archers & 2 Auxiliary infantry...1 x Praetorian Guard (There is another Praetorian, but he's drying at the moment 'cos I've had to repair the sword !)
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/technodestructorman/IMGP5155_zps3c8da118.jpg) (http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/technodestructorman/media/IMGP5155_zps3c8da118.jpg.html)
Second pic....'Command Group' & 2 X Legionaries.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/technodestructorman/IMGP5154_zps094fc997.jpg) (http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/technodestructorman/media/IMGP5154_zps094fc997.jpg.html)
Gotta rush.... Mrs T's feeling poorly.
Cheers - Phil
a) Hope Mrs Techno gets better soon
b) Beautiful figures
c) STOP IT! I don't have the time or money for yet another period!!!
Lovely, lovely, lovely. Would be great to have some Picts to go with them .... Oh.
Give Mrs Techno some TLC.
Send my best to Mrs Techno. :o
Great figures mate! :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 18 April 2014, 02:19:19 PM
a) Hope Mrs Techno gets better soon
b) Beautiful figures
c) STOP IT! I don't have the time or money for yet another period!!!
What he said, so tempting =D>
Nice, I particularly like the Auxilary archers - they may be appearing in a Fantasty kingdom near you!
Has Mrs T got a little bell to request care and attention?
well nice Phil, happy bunny when these get released :)
(hope Mrs T is better)
Thanks all.
Mrs T IS better..... and I've taken the little bell away now. ;)
Techno Towers almost completely back to normal now...Well....As near as normal as it ever is. :P
May have some more pics by the end of the week.
Cheers - Phil
Very, Very nice. :)
Did the Praetorians ever fight a battle, I thought they just killed emperors in the palace?
1st and 2nd Cremona inAD69 springs immediately to mind.
The Praetorians fought in many campaigns over the years, eventually being disbanded after their defeat at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge in 312AD.
A few examples, the figures here would do for the Emperor Otho's Praetorians at the Battle of Bedriacum in the Year of the Four Emperors, Domitian's Praetorians who were used in the Rhine campaign or the Praetorian's used by Trajan in Dacia and Mesopotamia.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 18 April 2014, 02:19:19 PM
c) STOP IT! I don't have the time or money for yet another period!!!
Its worse for me I have some 500 10mm Imperial romans and I am now tempted to replace them.
Phil, Hope Mrs T is feeling Better
Lots better, now Orcs !
She still hasn't quite got her voice back properly yet. Though in herself, she's feeling oodles better.
Thanks for asking. :)
Cheers - Phil
Ooops !
Forgot to say.....Hopefully a picture tomorrow....This will be of the crews for the ballista & onager....
And I've just noticed that we haven't welcomed Heedless Horseman to the forum.....
So welcome to you 'HH'
Cheers again - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 27 April 2014, 07:20:02 AM
Lots better, now Orcs !
She still hasn't quite got her voice back properly yet. Though in herself, she's feeling oodles better.
So when she has it will be :-
"Philip!!!!! Have you mucked those horses out yet?" :)
"Philip!!!!! "The cats been sick again, looks like you been feeding it little men?." :)
"Philip!!!!! Bring me a nice cup or tea and a scone." ( No idea why I chose scone- perhaps some phsycologist could explain) :)
Cheers
Mark
;D ;D ;D ;D
I don't think she's ever called me 'Philip'. Maybe the day we got married ?
a)...(Sigh).....It's the weekend...So I will be doing my secondary job as a qualified equine waste disposal operative :P (After I've fed the chickens....and the cats and the dogs.....and checked none of the sheep have keeled over during the night.)
b)..No.....I never get accused of feeding them the little men....But that reminds me, there's a 'hairball' waiting to be cleaned up....DEEP JOY ! :'(
c)...Coffee and biccies yes......Tea and scones....No. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Very nice Phil but I have seen the Romans in the flesh/Green :D :D :D
Fantastic work Techno,
kev
QuoteAnd I've just noticed that we haven't welcomed Heedless Horseman to the forum.....
So welcome to you 'HH'
Thank you.
As promised (I think)
Crews for the ballista and onager.
Second from the left needs some tweaking/cleaning on his 'cheek guards'.....Look awful in the original blown up piccy ! :-[
Cheers - Phil
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/technodestructorman/IMGP5162_zps29f0c49b.jpg) (http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/technodestructorman/media/IMGP5162_zps29f0c49b.jpg.html)
Love these chaps Techno. Especially the chap with the big arrow, he looks so...purposeful. ;D
Oh, and yeah, get on with them orcs mate. :D
Cool sculpts Phil. Nice crest on the officer! :D
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 April 2014, 05:39:58 PM
Cool sculpts Phil. Nice crest on the officer! :D
:P ;).....You can get ready for the next questions then, Will.
I think I can find some decent enough ref piccies for the Marian Legionaries......But
Eastern Legionaries........ :-\
Any ideas Matey ?
Only pic I've found makes them look very similar to the Auxiliaries.
Quote from: Luddite on 28 April 2014, 03:55:09 PM
Love these chaps Techno. Especially the chap with the big arrow, he looks so...purposeful. ;D
Might have looked a bit more in context if I'd taken him off the cork, and put him next to the ballista, I suppose. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Techno,
Eastern Legionaries probably didn't look too different from Western ones to be honest. It's entirely possible that many legionaries wore mail (lorica hamata) or scale (lorica squamata) rather than the lorica segmentata of popular imagination.
Also possible some auxiliaries wore segmentata.
Found this McBride pic when looking for some Total War stuff just before coming to the forum. It shows a Sassanid horseman engaged with some Eastern Legionaries.
(http://bp0.blogger.com/_UqsRf118B2I/RyJDWpQCt-I/AAAAAAAAA7o/tArJ-mWKabE/s1600/Legionaries%2Bv%2Bcataphracts.jpg)
Help any?
Greetings
I would also have said that 'Eastern' legionaries to the extent there were any real differences would be more mail or scale armour.
Edward
Slightly scruffier? ;D
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?601401-Art-depictions At the bottom of pg1, press spoiler's button.
For contemporary images of Roman soldiers it's hard to beat the metopes of the Adamclisi monument, even though they are now somewhat worn.
Type Tropeum Traiani Metope into Wikimedia and you get a list of all of the panels with a thumbnail.
Probably a more realistic portrayal of your average Roman soldier than those on Trajan's Column but somewhat more rough and ready sculpting.
Very many thanks chaps.
I'll try and have another go at getting at Will's link later on as well ! (Jeepers ! the computer is SUPER slow this morning...at least for that particular site......I've got to get a new machine soon....AAARGH !) :'( >:( :'(
Cheers - Phil.
"Use your disc Phil!" ;)
There's lots if roman resources on there...
As usual , very highly detailed and simply brilliant .
Stuart
You know I'm never picky, Phil, :D but the guy second from the right appears to be armed with a Sidewinder missile..... ;) Were those bolts really that big?
I've based it on the length of the bolt that's sitting in the current ballista, Ray.
As with a lot of things at this scale, it's a bit chunkier (fatter) than I'd really like, to give Dave a better chance of casting it. :)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Hertsblue on 06 May 2014, 08:41:51 AM
You know I'm never picky, Phil, :D but the guy second from the right appears to be armed with a Sidewinder missile..... ;) Were those bolts really that big?
In the
Civil War, Caesar refers to ballista bolts 14 feet long if I remember rightly.
Yes, it was the sheer girth of the thing I was remarking on mainly. I did think it might have something to do with the casting process.
some deft black lining when painting would narrow the shaft down.
My only issue with the crews would be they are all in the same position ie arms close to the body. Understandable with the crew carrying but maybe the office in charge could be more animated, pointing, shouting etc
(sorry I know I'm a picky b*gger)
That's one for a quick conversion, if 'the man' fancies an extra 'commander'. ;)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 06 May 2014, 09:04:51 AM
My only issue with the crews would be they are all in the same position ie arms close to the body. Understandable with the crew carrying but maybe the office in charge could be more animated, pointing, shouting etc
Or swearing - in Latin, of course.
Or standing with a broken vine stick screaming, "Cedo Alteram!*" perhaps?
http://www.erminestreetguard.co.uk/Officer%20Write%20Up%20Page%20CENTURION.htm
*Fetch me another!
I am NOT doing 3D speech bubbles ! (I can't write that small, anyway.) ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
But if you use you PC(Abacus), and a small enough font - yes you can.
IanS
I was imagining an open mouth and an inscription on the base but ... practice makes perfect Phil :d
X_X...... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Told you he needed a vine staff mate! ;)
What do you think he's supposed to be holding in his right hand ?......
Don't answer that ! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil