Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => 20th Century => Topic started by: fred. on 07 April 2014, 10:14:51 AM

Title: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fred. on 07 April 2014, 10:14:51 AM
Hi Chaps

I am reading about the battle of Neuve Chappelle at the minute - and it is making me think that I need more diversity in my early War WWI British forces, which currently are all chaps in caps.

There were various Scots and Indian battalions involved, so how best to represent these with Pendraken figures (either current or upcoming)

BP15 Highlanders - I assume these are in kilts, what headgear are they in?

BP16, 17,  18 and 19 Indian Lancers, Infantry, Lewis gunners, and Vickers - are these in turbans?
There is also ME23 Indian foot in turban - but what uniform are these in?

What proportion of Indian units were in turbans?

For Gurkas - who seem to have been wearing bush hats with the brim folded up on 1 side
Would ME2 Australian infantry work?

Thanks



Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: Fenton on 07 April 2014, 10:24:59 AM
As far as I am aware all Indian troops wore the  pagri whether they were Sikh or not up until the introduction of the steel helmet

On an interesting side note when Indian troops were issued with steel helmets the Sikh troops refused to wear them instead of the Pagri. This annoyed the British Army until a compromise was reached where the Sikh troops would be issued with the helmet then they would lose them by accident ,nobody would ask any questions and everyone was happy



Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fred. on 07 April 2014, 10:43:56 AM
Quote from: Fenton on 07 April 2014, 10:24:59 AM
As far as I am aware all Indian troops wore the  pagri whether they were Sikh or not up until the introduction of the steel helmet

Thanks, I hadn't realised that, I think I was associating turbans with Sikhs.
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fred. on 07 April 2014, 08:28:39 PM
Little bump, to attract the attention of our evening callers...

Any thoughts about Aussies as Gurkhas?
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: realthing on 08 April 2014, 08:54:26 PM
Quote from: fred    12df on 07 April 2014, 10:14:51 AM
BP15 Highlanders[/b] - I assume these are in kilts, what headgear are they in?

They are indeed in kilts. In this scale, the headgear could probably pass for either a balmoral bonnet or a TOS (it features a bobble); it's definitely NOT a glengarry. Not sure about the new releases; hopefully some 1914 Highland infantry will be included.
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fred. on 08 April 2014, 09:16:34 PM
Thanks, that helps.

When I get round to this (I have a small mountain of late war british first) I'll probably get a few sample Aussie figures to see what might work as a Gurkha battalion.
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: GrumpyOldMan on 08 April 2014, 11:59:11 PM
Hello fred 12df

I haven't been able to get any pictures of the Australian infantry but I did find these of the dismounted Light Horse:-

(http://www.deepfriedhappymice.com/assets/images/SY_Pend_ALH_2.jpg)
(http://www.deepfriedhappymice.com/assets/images/SY_Pend_ALH_3.jpg)

These, with a bandolier, may be closer.

(http://www.himalayan-imports.com/assets/images/kukri-InspectionSomewhereInFrance-WWI.jpg)
(I suspect that this picture is reversed)

I'm assuming that the Australian infantry may be in shorts. Of course you may find yourself adding kukris and cutting away lots of emu plumes :)

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fred. on 09 April 2014, 06:27:21 AM
Ta GoM

They look a good fit. I only need a battalion or two, so 12 or 24 figures, so a bit of light conversion is possible.
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fsn on 09 April 2014, 07:35:48 AM
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 08 April 2014, 11:59:11 PM
(I suspect that this picture is reversed)

You mean, we should be seeing their backs?
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: Hertsblue on 09 April 2014, 08:54:52 AM
Quote from: fsn on 09 April 2014, 07:35:48 AM
You mean, we should be seeing their backs?

You're the sort of person who thinks "recycling" means peddling backwards, aren't you?
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fsn on 09 April 2014, 12:10:41 PM
It doesn't?  :o
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: kustenjaeger on 09 April 2014, 01:04:52 PM
Greetings

Have you got a copy of 'Sepoys in the Trenches' covering the Indian Corps in France?  It's only £1.99 on kindle. 

Though I haven't read it all yet it refers to all Indian troops using a turban (different styles) except the Gurkhas and Garwhalis who wore the slouch hat (turned up on opposite sides). 

Regards

Edward
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: Fenton on 09 April 2014, 02:32:12 PM
Have you seen this at all

http://www.cwgc.org/foreverindia/context/indian-army-in-1914.php
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 09 April 2014, 03:31:13 PM
A good find and a sobering read.
Thank you.
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: kustenjaeger on 09 April 2014, 04:45:36 PM
Greetings

Quote from: Fenton on 09 April 2014, 02:32:12 PM
Have you seen this at all

http://www.cwgc.org/foreverindia/context/indian-army-in-1914.php

While it is of course true that the Indian Army of 1914 was designed to fight in colonial operations and the Indian Corps in France suffered from numerous issues, the problem with this page is that some of the implications are wrong:
(a) machineguns - all British battalions only had 2 MG per battalion in 1914 (as did almost every other power)
(b) there were virtually no grenades in the British Army in August 1914 either (there was a 1908 pattern monstrosity that was apparently designed for engineer use and even in November 1914 was allegedly only being supplied at 70 per week)
(c) Not sure what the point is on searchlights
(d) lack of mechanisation - British mechanisation was pretty limited as well
(e) the point about clothing is correct - the Indian Corps arrived in Indian winter gear but this proved to be wildly inadequate (later fixed)

As mentioned on a linked page, bigger problems were officer reinforcements in the face of heavy casualties (12 British officers per battalion and troops were used to officers who spoke their own language), other rank reinforcements (reserve system was wholly inadequate).

Regards

Edward

Edward
Title: Re: WWI British and Commonwealth
Post by: fred. on 09 April 2014, 07:36:07 PM
Sepoys in the Trenches looks interesting - and is bargain at £2 on kindle compared to £45 for the book!

The uniforms info on the website linked is interesting - the photos in the Neuve Chappelle book look as if the Indian troops are wearing uniforms that look very similar to standard Tommies. But the website indicates that khaki drill may have been issued instead.