Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Resources => Topic started by: Luddite on 16 March 2014, 06:02:35 PM

Title: Linybeige
Post by: Luddite on 16 March 2014, 06:02:35 PM
I must say i find this chap's videos really rather interesting.

Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: paulr on 16 March 2014, 06:33:05 PM
Interesting but needs some evidence to back up his thoughts :-\

Contrasts sharply with the video on shield use
Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 16 March 2014, 07:48:29 PM
Quote from: Luddite on 16 March 2014, 06:02:35 PM
I must say i find this chap's videos really rather interesting.


Hmmm... Yup. When you read the account of the Battle of Montgomery, both sides pikes spend a long time running away to reform later...
Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: Subedai on 16 March 2014, 08:15:03 PM
As an ex-reenactor myself back in the 70's pikes were always raised on the field, seeing the SK since I reasoned that the raising of pikes just before combat was purely for H & S reasons. My understanding from what I have read is that the pikes did go in at shoulder height and the two sides would have a stab at each other for a while until one side or the other bit the bullet as it were and advanced fording the other side to either lean into the fight or peg it. Reading the accounts of the ECW battles casualties weren't heavy enough to mean that whole front ranks of pike were cut down by the enemy every time pike blocks met.
I quite like the idea behind his morale reasoning though.
Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: Ithoriel on 16 March 2014, 10:40:21 PM
If he's right and the chroniclers aren't all complete liars what did the pike blocks actually do while one lot of cavalry was duffing up the other before returning (if you were lucky) to stab the opposing pike blocks in the back? A quick game of gin rummy, maybe?

Sorry, interesting theory but I don't believe it.
Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: Hertsblue on 17 March 2014, 08:43:27 AM
He's totally wrong on one point. Cavalry could and did charge into steady pike blocks. At Ceresole in 1544 Francis of Bourbon, Lord of Enghien, charged the veteran Spanish and German foot three time with his gendarnes d'ordenance and broke into them each time. Admittedly he lost two thirds of his cavalry doing it and the foot reformed each time, but it was certainly possible.
Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: Matt J on 17 March 2014, 09:04:39 AM
"the front rank isn't going to stand there and take the hit"

sorry but this has been the case from ancients through to C19th.

theories based on re-enactors that aren't really trying to kill each other  :-\
Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: FierceKitty on 17 March 2014, 09:57:31 AM
I fear this begs the questions of where the expression "push of pike" came from, and why the front ranks almost always wore rather a lot of heavy armour.
Title: Re: Linybeige
Post by: Luddite on 17 March 2014, 06:14:02 PM
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 17 March 2014, 09:04:39 AM
theories based on re-enactors that aren't really trying to kill each other  :-\

He's a scholar and archaeologist; not just a 're-enactor'.

Well worth watching a few of his videos.  These are his opinions

I don't agree with many of them but i often find them thought provoking and interesting.