Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Non-Wargaming Discussion => Chat & News => Topic started by: cameronian on 14 March 2014, 01:34:47 PM

Title: Benn dead.
Post by: cameronian on 14 March 2014, 01:34:47 PM
No loss; discuss.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Fenton on 14 March 2014, 01:37:09 PM
He is a man who had his principals and for what I can see stuck to them  and was a great parliamentarian
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 14 March 2014, 01:58:55 PM
A great orator, full of humour and knew how to pick his fights. A character that will be truly missed amounts the faceless greys of today. Saw him speak twice, each time was brilliant. He will be missed and I hope they put a statue of him in the Houses of Parlemebt.
Rest well.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Ithoriel on 14 March 2014, 02:15:14 PM
I'm with mad lemmey and Fenton. A passionate and inspiring speaker (even if you didn't agree with him) and, in a parliament of buskins, a man who stood by his principles.

UK parliament could do with more of his type on all sides of the house.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Techno on 14 March 2014, 02:57:47 PM
I'm with the three comments above.
Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: i_am_win on 14 March 2014, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: cameronian on 14 March 2014, 01:34:47 PM
No loss; discuss.

No need to be like that, I used to like his progamme.

Oh, and the way he'd go to the magic shop and have a new costumed adventure each week!

Marvelous stuff!!  :D ;) :P
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Fenton on 14 March 2014, 03:17:07 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Jim Ando on 14 March 2014, 04:05:59 PM
How come he`d come out of the changing room and be in a whole new place.

where did he get the time for debates in parliament.

couldn't care less about any politician to be honest all out to shaft me.

jim
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: sunjester on 14 March 2014, 06:55:45 PM
Quote from: Jim Ando on 14 March 2014, 04:05:59 PM

couldn't care less about any politician to be honest all out to shaft me.

jim

Sadly shows you didn't know anything about the man, possibly the only politician of the past 50+ year to truly stick to his principles.

I was far from in agreement with everything he said but he made the current crop of Tories/New Labour look like the cabinet from a Banana Republic!
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Fenton on 14 March 2014, 07:01:46 PM
He must be the last of that generation to depart of Wilson, Callaghan, Healey, Heath etc
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: mollinary on 14 March 2014, 07:02:26 PM
A man of principle, and almost completely impractical.  True to himself and his ideals,  I am not sure if he was not also a talent wasted by his inability to bend.  Must have been very difficult to work with as a political colleague.   That said, Cam, I hope others will be more charitable about us when it comes to our passing.

Mollinary
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Luddite on 14 March 2014, 07:10:44 PM
The greatest politician, parliamentarian, and democrat of the last 60 years.

A terrible loss to humanity.

He encouraged us.

Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: marie on 14 March 2014, 08:31:37 PM
Good Bloke..
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Steve J on 14 March 2014, 08:44:15 PM
Very interesting interview with Shirley Williams on PM tonight re: Tony Benn. Broadly speaking:
- Very principled.
- Great orator.
- Prevented the Labour party from being 'electable' for circa 18 years due to his influence on their manifestos etc.
- Only wanted his view to prevail in cabinet meetings etc, thus causing internal dissent within the party.

Another commentator pointed out that his support for Concorde was pretty much based on the fact that it would gaurantee jobs for his constituents. A point of view corroborated by my friend whose Dad worked on Concorde. Did you know the pilots seat alone cost £70 million pounds to develop and that's not at todays prices :o :o :o?

Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Steeleye on 15 March 2014, 08:24:56 AM
Never liked the man.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Hertsblue on 15 March 2014, 11:03:49 AM
What stuck in my craw was the sight of a jumped-down aristo trying the tell the working classes how to behave.  :P :P :P
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Elliesdad on 15 March 2014, 11:40:54 AM
I misread the subject as BEEN dead.

What? Someone has been (but now isn't?) dead.
I was thinking ZOMBIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geoff
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Luddite on 15 March 2014, 01:08:58 PM
Quote from: Steve J on 14 March 2014, 08:44:15 PM
Very interesting interview with Shirley Williams on PM tonight re: Tony Benn. Broadly speaking:
- Very principled.
- Great orator.
- Prevented the Labour party from being 'electable' for circa 18 years due to his influence on their manifestos etc.
- Only wanted his view to prevail in cabinet meetings etc, thus causing internal dissent within the party.

Another commentator pointed out that his support for Concorde was pretty much based on the fact that it would gaurantee jobs for his constituents. A point of view corroborated by my friend whose Dad worked on Concorde. Did you know the pilots seat alone cost £70 million pounds to develop and that's not at todays prices :o :o :o?



Shirley Williams?

I woudn't believe a word that turncoat said.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Ithoriel on 15 March 2014, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 15 March 2014, 11:03:49 AM
What stuck in my craw was the sight of a jumped-down aristo trying the tell the working classes how to behave.  :P :P :P

Seems to me what he told the working classes was "Don't let people you didn't elect tell you how to behave."

No taxation without representation and all that.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: FierceKitty on 15 March 2014, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 15 March 2014, 11:03:49 AM
What stuck in my craw was the sight of a jumped-down aristo trying the tell the working classes how to behave.  :P :P :P

Well, someone has to, I suppose.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: get2grips on 15 March 2014, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 15 March 2014, 02:58:07 PM
Seems to me what he told the working classes was "Don't let people you didn't elect tell you how to behave."

No taxation without representation and all that.

Agree 100%

Benn was a real gentleman.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Orcs on 16 March 2014, 11:15:41 AM
A very principled politician (yes they did exist).  While I did not agree with him on much You had to admire him.  I agree with Molinary that he may have wasted his talent.

Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 16 March 2014, 12:37:49 PM
Was the DID for principled Politian's deliberate ?
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Luddite on 16 March 2014, 03:53:27 PM
Looks like a deliberate implication that there are no politicians of principle around today.  I think there are maybe a couple, but generally the current crop are simply PPE careerists, and managers of Capitalism.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Fenton on 16 March 2014, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: Luddite on 16 March 2014, 03:53:27 PM
Looks like a deliberate implication that there are no politicians of principle around today.  I think there are maybe a couple, but generally the current crop are simply PPE careerists, and managers of Capitalism.


Its hard to tell who is who anymore...they all seem to have gone to prep school followed by public school then Oxbridge then a job in a cabinet office then become an MP then in the cabinet themselves..They all seem to have the same policies as well
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Orcs on 16 March 2014, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 16 March 2014, 12:37:49 PM
Was the DID for principled Politian's deliberate ?

Yes, Most if not all are now more bothered about keeping thier career and staying on the MPs gravy train rather than stand up for a: Thier own principles or b: The policies and manifesto they spouted to get voted in.

Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: sebigboss79 on 16 March 2014, 08:58:01 PM
A few days ago I commented onthe last man in Parliament with honest intentions. I was then corrected with the example of this gentleman who just passed away.

I truly believe if we had a Parliament full of people standing to their principle and doing their job (representing society NOT their rich buddies from prep school!) we would not be in this mess in the first place.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: Sandinista on 16 March 2014, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 16 March 2014, 08:58:01 PM
A few days ago I commented onthe last man in Parliament with honest intentions. I was then corrected with the example of this gentleman who just passed away.

I truly believe if we had a Parliament full of people standing to their principle and doing their job (representing society NOT their rich buddies from prep school!) we would not be in this mess in the first place.

Don't forget Dennis Skinner, still carrying the torch
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: FierceKitty on 16 March 2014, 11:16:46 PM
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 16 March 2014, 08:58:01 PM
A few days ago I commented onthe last man in Parliament with honest intentions. I was then corrected with the example of this gentleman who just passed away.

I truly believe if we had a Parliament full of people standing to their principle and doing their job (representing society NOT their rich buddies from prep school!) we would not be in this mess in the first place.

Pol Pot stood for principles as well. I'm afraid integrity alone can be very ugly.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: cameronian on 19 March 2014, 07:13:02 PM
Principled, hmmmm, he certainly had principles but was utterly unscrupulous in his attempts to get them accepted by the wider Labour Party which he and his coterie of lunatics rendered virtually unelectable. The degree to which he was hated by many in his party, like for example Jack Straw, will only become apparent once the obligatory period of Nil Nisi has elapsed. This was a man who encouraged the brainless militancy of the 70's which, lest we forget, buried most of British manufacturing. It wasn't Thatcher that killed the indigenous car industry, it was Benn, Robinson et al.

His espousal of Militant Tendency showed his utter detachment from reality and unfitness to hold high office (as Harold Wilson said, 'Tony immatures with age'). Also, he was a big admirer of the mass murderer Mao and, by extension, Mao's protégé Pol Pot (mentioned earlier). Lenin would have called him a 'useful idiot' and Lenin would have been right.

Together with his wealthy heiress wife Caroline (another moneyed pitier of the poor), he worked tirelessly to kill the Grammar Schools which for boys like me offered the best way up the ladder. Of course to the well connected like Benn (or Paul McCartney, or Alistair Campbell, pick your own posturing celeb) a first class education wasn't essential to progress socially, their position in society, their circle of friends and their contacts, ensured that their comprehensively educated children fast tracked to success.

Smug, patronising and self satisfied, his effect on the lives of the ordinary working people of this country was entirely detrimental, like I said, small loss.
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: mollinary on 19 March 2014, 07:50:42 PM
Quote from: cameronian on 19 March 2014, 07:13:02 PM
Principled, hmmmm, he certainly had principles but was utterly unscrupulous in his attempts to get them accepted by the wider Labour Party which he and his coterie of lunatics rendered virtually unelectable. The degree to which he was hated by many in his party, like for example Jack Straw, will only become apparent once the obligatory period of Nil Nisi has elapsed. This was a man who encouraged the brainless militancy of the 70's which, lest we forget, buried most of British manufacturing. It wasn't Thatcher that killed the indigenous car industry, it was Benn, Robinson et al.

His espousal of Militant Tendency showed his utter detachment from reality and unfitness to hold high office (as Harold Wilson said, 'Tony immatures with age'). Also, he was a big admirer of the mass murderer Mao and, by extension, Mao's protégé Pol Pot (mentioned earlier). Lenin would have called him a 'useful idiot' and Lenin would have been right.

Together with his wealthy heiress wife Caroline (another moneyed pitier of the poor), he worked tirelessly to kill the Grammar Schools which for boys like me offered the best way up the ladder. Of course to the well connected like Benn (or Paul McCartney, or Alistair Campbell, pick your own posturing celeb) a first class education wasn't essential to progress socially, their position in society, their circle of friends and their contacts, ensured that their comprehensively educated children fast tracked to success.

Smug, patronising and self satisfied, his effect on the lives of the ordinary working people of this country was entirely detrimental, like I said, small loss.

Come on Cam, don't be shy - tell us what you really think!   ;D

Mollinary
Title: Re: Benn dead.
Post by: cameronian on 19 March 2014, 08:07:35 PM
Can't, Leon would give me a life ban !
>:(