Seen it. >:( Signed it.
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52411/signature/new
Bury her at the crossroads with a stake through her heart. If she had one, as a better Tory might have said.
But then, neither of you is English....
Quote from: Hertsblue on 01 March 2014, 10:23:13 AM
But then, neither of you are English....
By English I assume you mean British as she was PM of Great Britain, England hasn't had one since 1707. Problem is this nonsense would apply throughout the so-called UK. Before you cast aspersions at rebellious Scots, best to take a poll in northern England on the late Maggie's popularity.
I'm not, but my grandfather devoted five years of his life to fighting for the Empire.
Apart from that, if she hadn't done what she did to British education, I might be having an easier time when reading the bizarre grammar on many of these posts.
And if someone tries to start WWIII and wreck civilisation, I'd say we were all stakeholders. Pass the mallet.
Burning in hell for eternity is far to good for that bitch >:( but then this is probably not the forum for this
Ahhhhh... Politics...... that great old opinion divider :)
Maggie might have been a tough old boot but she had a pair bigger than any of todays 'legend in their own lunchtime' oxygen thiefs.
And before anyone starts about polls in the North, I'm from the North and watched the devastation of the miners strike at first hand.
I wont be signing, but can understand why others would. Regardless of the result what this government wants will go ahead anyway. Anyone remember the public outcry about her funeral... (:|
I did not attempt to start infighting and bad mood here gentlemen.
Matter of fact the bill would only be applying to England, Wales and Northern Ireland (as stated in the text).
My personal believe is that this woman has done bad things to this country where I live in (Great Britain) and to honour HER with a public holiday whereas much more renowned personnel has not received similar honours is a disgrace (Churchill, Drake, Watt, Darwin, Adam Smith...)
Besides personal preferences and political snipes I ask to keep this sporty please.
Shakespeare, Turner, Pope, Newton, Darwin....To do it for any politician is absurd!
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 01 March 2014, 10:48:29 AM
I did not attempt to start infighting and bad mood here gentlemen.
Matter of fact the bill would only be applying to England, Wales and Northern Ireland (as stated in the text).
My personal believe is that this woman has done bad things to this country where I live in (Great Britain) and to honour HER with a public holiday whereas much more renowned personnel has not received similar honours is a disgrace (Churchill, Drake, Watt, Darwin, Adam Smith...)
Besides personal preferences and political snipes I ask to keep this sporty please.
Personally I didn't think this post thread has got un-sporty, but thats the nature of the politics/thatcher theme. It will invariably divide opinion like marmite... see my new post/poll ;)
Quote from: Nosher on 01 March 2014, 10:58:31 AM
Personally I didn't think this post thread has got un-sporty, but thats the nature of the politics/thatcher theme. It will invariably divide opinion like marmite... see my new post/poll ;)
I was merely attempting to calm the waves before a potential storm. It is understood that certain topics (politics, football, marmite...) are a bit controversial.
Though I'm not sure why this is in the "Wargaming Topics" forum, mind you.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 01 March 2014, 11:25:40 AM
Though I'm not sure why this is in the "Wargaming Topics" forum, mind you.
Because it's shaping up nicely to become a war in here? :D
Met the old bat once and, while I loathed her politics, she was definitely one of the better politicians face-to-face. She engaged with you, if she was talking to you she was talking to you, whoever you were. Several others I've met in social situations were far to busy looking round the room for someone important whilst talking AT you.
Didn't stop me sniggering at Frankie Boyle's comment about Thatcher's funeral, mind you.
Coming from East Anglia I had a very different view of the Thatcher Years. As an example:
- The Unions didn't give a toss about those who suffered in the Eastern Counties as they were and are most likely to be, always Conservative. I know from bitter experience when my Dad was laid off. This contrasts markedly with what happened in the Midlands and the North. A farm labourer without work and in the middle of the Fens suffered just as much as a miner in the North East.
- After the 'Winter of Discontent' the first term of the new Conservative administration felt like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Almost exactly the same was felt when Tony Blair won his first election. Both leaders then went from bad to worse in successive terms IMHO.
- After the terrible decade of the '70s, the '80s under Thatcher felt wonderful in comparison. Working in the design industry, we finally started to sort out decades of mis-administration in manufacturing, with the Unions and mangement equally to blame. London at this time was a great place to be where anything seemed possible.
I for one was glad of the 'wind of change' that the Thatcher era brought in, just as I was with Tony Blair. However I can see no reason whatever for changing the August Bank Holiday into a Thatcher one.
Of course it really helps the "cause" if:
1. People have even the slightest awareness of current affairs relating to their "cause" - the bill to change August BH to Margaret Thatcher Day actually failed it's second reading yesterday, before this thread was started!
2. Those raising petitions for public consumption used a spell checker (given that everyone's education in the UK was personally destroyed by Maggie) - what is a "poposal" or a "Holday"?
I'll just point out here that I have no more time for "Maggie Thatcher Milk Snatcher" that I do for that back-stabbing little sh** Blair....not true at least Maggie wasn't a war criminal and she waited for someone to invade us before starting a war!
Who is this Bonehead and doesn't he ever watch the news?
All of shows why we should stick to to wargames and totty and leave politics and religion alone.
Zoroastrian weirdos!
I personally hated the divisive effect she had (and is still having with a neo-thatcher as PM) on this country, she destroyed the power of the unions (not a bad thing) but then continued viciously dismantling anything or anyone who was opposed to her particular world view. The shear arrogance of the woman was amazing, her treatment of an entire city (Liverpool) was a disgrace. The unregulated banks started with her ideas for a new Britain (not a manufacturing hub...don't need factories they vote Labour....rich bankers are they way) The dead buried on a South Atlantic Island can be put at her feet, she encouraged the Argentinian Invasion and thus the War with her diplomatic shenanigans (withdrawal of the last RN presence in the South Atlantic being a prime example of the signals she sent to the Argentinians when they were negotiating the return of the islands...not that I think the islands are Argentinian....they want to remain British then end of story as far as I am concerned). The corrupt deals for her husbands company in the middle east using arms deals to secure hotel building contracts. The evilness of this woman is up there with Lucretia Borgia, the only difference for me is that Borgia was long dead before I was born and couldn't effect me directly...Thatcher did.
She is dead, let her go and forget the horror of her rule.
Needles to say I have signed it.
Actually, we NEED trade unions here. We're virtually helpless in an employer's hands.
If you had lived and worked through the Seventies and early eighties you would see my point...they were out of control. Unions exist to protect the working man (or woman for that matter ;D I can't believe I came up with a PC comment there!!) not to dictate policy to government. A tiny minority of agitators were able to force through a strike vote and bring an entire industry to a halt, often for the most pointless/ridiculous of reasons. I worked on a unionised site in the early eighties, I was allowed to drill through metal, but had to wait for the joiner to drill the wooded section of the job, the justification was it was his job not mine...not a problem with that, but, it meant we were twice as expensive as our opposition for the same sort of contracts...the company no longer exists and everyone has lost out. Trade union's didn't focus on their reason for existence and instead dabbled in politics and national economic policy, we have elected representatives for this, the Union view was not representative of the National desire and as such was un-democratic and unfair. I think the unions are, to a large extent, responsible for the rise of the cancer that was Margret Thatcher and the Tory Greed Party of the eighties, nineties and now.
I know. One good custom can corrupt the world.
Having lived and worked through the 70's and 80's the early Thatcher Years were 'interesting' to say the least.
She did much that was bad but much that was necessary.
She came in with a plan to smash the unions and did it, the winter of discontent was hell, a 3 day working week and electricity on ration is not the way to run a major country. I can remember going to the electricity board showroom on the high street on my way home from school to look up when we would have power. The uniouns broke govenments, they were unellected and playing at power politics.
I also seem to remember inflation at about 30%, the country was being bailled out by the IMF for God's sake.
She was however completely batty by the end, her idea of the poll tax was a shambles, she tried it in Scotland and it destroyed the Torries north of the border, and when she brought in into England and Wales it was the begining of the end for her.
She did have one other saving grace, she believed in Parliament, after the Falklands there was a full public enquiry, I wonder if Cameron will launch one after we finally pull out of Afganistan?
So on balance I admire her, I don't like her and think it's rediculous and stupid to rename a public holiday after her, but I do admire her.
Voted for it.
Hope she festers in the Seven Nether Regions of Hell!
I am NOT joking >:(
Largely as a result of the introduction of the Poll Tax in Scotland by the Thatcher administration, I would argue, Conservative support in Scotland has fallen to the point that, as pointed out on the radio recently, there are twice as many Giant Pandas as Tory MPs in Scotland.
I can not agree, she made our country great again, got rid of the Argi`s..
saved our coal for the future...for when the ruskies cut off our gas...
Kicked the crap out of a lot of hypocritical men.....and never swung her handbag....
Quote from: marie on 06 March 2014, 02:04:00 AM
I can not agree, she made our country great again, got rid of the Argi`s..
saved our coal for the future...for when the ruskies cut off our gas...
Kicked the crap out of a lot of hypocritical men.....and never swung her handbag....
She did not save our coal: the mines were not maintained and it would be practically impossible to get at most of it now.
where there is a will there is a way,lol......
I signed it because I couldn't stand the woman, what she stood for or what she did to get another term in office. I still vote but never Tory because of her legacy. But saying that, I struggle to think of any that are worth a vote nowadays.
My advice is that as it's not broken why try and fix it?
Leave it as it is, that way you can't upset anybody.
An interesting programme coming up next week on the legacy of the miners strike, which is still very raw in affected communities; families not talking to 'scabs' even after all of these years. One interesting point was that in one pit, the miners didn't want to strike, yet the Union told them they had to because that's what the NUM wanted! So much for democracy :(.
Quote from: Steve J on 06 March 2014, 12:41:45 PM
An interesting programme coming up next week on the legacy of the miners strike, which is still very raw in affected communities; families not talking to 'scabs' even after all of these years. One interesting point was that in one pit, the miners didn't want to strike, yet the Union told them they had to because that's what the NUM wanted! So much for democracy :(.
I have no sort of sympathy for bullies, but if a minority can ignore policy decisions, we're looking at anarchy, not democracy. Whether this is a good thing or not is another issue.
Quotebut if a minority can ignore policy decisions
From one of those involved in the programme:
"He was appalled at the prospect of industrial action, especially as Scargill had refused to call a national ballot."
I think this sentences speaks volumes, but then that is just my opinion.
I was only a young lad at the time and I always remember the news about someone had been killed by the pickets, I thought they meant the band the 'flyng pickets'. I was rather confused why a rock band was going around killing people.
Gentlemen
I have just asked the clone responsible for the forums to lock this thread.
It was certainly not my intention to stir up any bad feelings here. Before things get into a direction we all want to avoid I have therefore asked to have this thread locked.
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 06 March 2014, 08:10:00 PM
I was only a young lad at the time and I always remember the news about someone had been killed by the pickets, I thought they meant the band the 'flyng pickets'. I was rather confused why a rock band was going around killing people.
It's what rock has tried to do to music from its inception, isn't it? Why not people too?
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 06 March 2014, 09:14:44 PM
Gentlemen
I have just asked the clone responsible for the forums to lock this thread.
It was certainly not my intention to stir up any bad feelings here. Before things get into a direction we all want to avoid I have therefore asked to have this thread locked.
Not sure why - I dont sense any bad blood - people are airing opinions and I dont see any keyboard warrior sniping going on. I think this has been one of the healthiest off topic line of posts for quite some time.
Please let it continue. If it gets personal thens the time to self destruct the thread
Quote from: Nosher on 07 March 2014, 08:00:27 AM
Not sure why - I dont sense any bad blood - people are airing opinions and I dont see any keyboard warrior sniping going on. I think this has been one of the healthiest off topic line of posts for quite some time.
Please let it continue. If it gets personal thens the time to self destruct the thread
Agreed :)
We disagree, we argue, we state our point but it isn't personal ;)
Nosher, get2grips
it is still sporty yet I fear it might get to a point where someone feels insulted hence my plea.
Quote from: get2grips on 07 March 2014, 08:03:16 AM
We disagree, we argue, we state our point but it isn't personal ;)
Agreed......Let's keep it like that. ;) :)
Cheers - Phil
Well all I will say is
Thatcher, Regan and Gorbachov(sorry if I spelt this wrong) DID END THE COLD WAR so we should have a day to all three!!!
Martin
You'll have to include our friends the Taliban. They shook up Russian ideas about foreign policy in a big way.
If it means a day off work with pay I'll vote for it ;D ;D ;D
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/trRS5XM_yUc/hqdefault.jpg)
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/trRS5XM_yUc/hqdefault.jpg (http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/trRS5XM_yUc/hqdefault.jpg)
Quote from: Luddite on 07 March 2014, 01:07:28 PM
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/trRS5XM_yUc/hqdefault.jpg)
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/trRS5XM_yUc/hqdefault.jpg (http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/trRS5XM_yUc/hqdefault.jpg)
=D> =D> =D>
I'm not going to repost a repost but Luddite, that sums it up a treat.
Great find.
=D> :-bd =D> :-bd =D>
I was born in Hull ,and live in Doncaster,both towns had the guts ripped out of them by Thatchers polices,and the unions stupidity. As my father used to say" To reach the top in politics ,you have to be able to sell your own grandma,give your soul freely to the devil, and stand on anybody to reach the top". So no she should not have a bank holiday named after her,she gave to many an extended holiday when they lost their industries and jobs.
After Attila's armies sacked Aquilea, the fugitives founded Venice. Why doesn't Venice have an Attila holiday? Clear Hunnophobia!
I think the unions are, to a large extent, responsible for the rise of the cancer that was Margret Thatcher and the Tory Greed Party of the eighties, nineties and now.
Wrong way round, the unions were the cancer, Thatcher was the chemo, not nice but necessary.
Quote from: cameronian on 09 March 2014, 03:59:02 PM
I think the unions are, to a large extent, responsible for the rise of the cancer that was Margret Thatcher and the Tory Greed Party of the eighties, nineties and now.
Wrong way round, the unions were the cancer, Thatcher was the chemo, not nice but necessary.
I think you're wrong on so many levels but I doubt I'll convince you and I'm certain you won't convince me, so I'll agree to vehemently disagree.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 09 March 2014, 04:29:27 PM
I think you're wrong on so many levels but I doubt I'll convince you and I'm certain you won't convince me, so I'll agree to vehemently disagree.
I agree with Ithoriel on this
While we can certainly disagree on points of princple and ideology, I also agree that cameronian is wrong on this point, an is, as so often happens, conflating and confusing important bht different points. It is I think true that in the late 1970s, the unions were somewhat hijacked by demagogues who lost sight of what it was the unions were formed to achieve. But the brutal, Thatcherite destruction of the movement an the hard won industrial rights of the people has swung the pendulum too far back. We now live in a tkme where workers rights are nonexistent rea,ly, and this Iimbalance has led directly to many of the problems wd now face. Take the financial 'crash'. While mostly a banking crisis, it wasfuelled by debt, mkstly of the lie of mortgages, but also household debt. Why are people in debt? Because ee have a consumer economy fuelled by consumers who are POORLY PAID. The crushing of the jnion power has meant that rather than profits going to the workers who spend it, it goes to shareholders and rich folks who hoard it...thus the consumer economy stalls, and peo
lE are forced jnto debt to pay their mortgages. If the unions were left with more power, as in for example Germany, higher wages, lower debt, not as setious a crash. So Thatcher was wrong to go so far in smashing the rights of the people to bargain collectively for their and societys brtterment. I would suggest.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 09 March 2014, 04:29:27 PM
I think you're wrong on so many levels but I doubt I'll convince you and I'm certain you won't convince me, so I'll agree to vehemently disagree.
Yep :-bd
Even if she was right, her methods were abhorrent!
Quote from: Fenton on 09 March 2014, 04:53:24 PM
I agree with Ithoriel on this
As do I. I put my thoughts in my blog when she died, they haven't changed one bit since then.
I think this will always be an intractable situation. My best friend is from Hull and was very much against Margaret Thatcher and her policies, yet was equally apposed to the jobs for life of the Hull dock workers, 1/3 of whom never turned up for work, yet continued to be paid. The Union power was so strong that their employers could not touch them.
As for me growing up in East Anglia, the unions never affected us as mentioned in a previous post, with the exceptions of the power strikes, rail strikes etc. At the same time we suffered from lay offs in the agricultural sector and the knock on effect on local communities. It never received the coverage that the mineworkers and others got, so we just had to get on with our lifes. My Dad was and is still bitter that the union he had to belong to to work on construction sites, didn't help them one jot when the company started laying workers off.
For me I agree with an awful lot of what she did or had to do, but equally disagree in equal amounts with other policies. Ditto Tony Blair et al. That's life and that's politics.
Luddite has made a very valid point there.
Wealth doe not trickle down, it flows into offshore accounts (recent research).
If the only duty of the business is to make money then who is going to buy products if they are barely covering the basic living and moreover why did we abolish slavery?
Money for the few may be a (political) agenda but unless humanity learns to truly run a communist regime (not some are more equal than others) AND we work for embettering ourselves and the planet we will inevitably run into the corner where the many become so enraged they will replace the few with another few to exploit them. A more equal distribution of resources (and therefore wealth) is not a weakness but essential for a society that functions (as stated by Willson and Picket).
Now without trying to start an argument but all those people who argue that my point is "weak" or the route to communism I must reply they lack the most basic human empathy and intellect. In ancient times (such as the 70s) people were taught Philosophy and had the ability to reflect upon themselves and their actions. More importantly they foresaw that taking too much away from the plebs will at one point make the plebs take back what they think is theirs. Self preservation suggests you do behave a bit more sensibly. Again the point is why we cannot all get along and just do what we should?