Now that all of the Mongol orders have been sent out and we begin to prep the range for a proper release, it's time to take a look at everything and see whether the whole experiment was a success or not.
First off, the initial response was excellent, more than we ever anticipated. The pledges came in thick and fast and by the deadline we had £2189 pledged from 40 people! Then it was time for Techno to get busy and work his magic with the putty. The figures were previewed on the Forum, and the feedback was very positive.
(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/PendrakenMiniatures/Forum%20Stuff/Mongol1_zps8f6fbaf6.jpg) (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/PendrakenMiniatures/media/Forum%20Stuff/Mongol1_zps8f6fbaf6.jpg.html)
As the moulding process came to an end, we got to the important bit, getting the order forms sent out and some pennies in! Out of the initial 40 pledges, 24 resulted in an order (60%), and of the £2189 pledged, we received orders totalling £1337.50 (61%). The actual orders received were £57.50 up on the amounts pledged by those people. (1 person emailed us to explain that their circumstances had changed and they wouldn't be able to carry through with their pledge.) With the 10% discount we offered off all of the orders, and the postage added on, the total amount collected came to £1279.74.
On the costs side, we had underestimated slightly, and with the extra codes that were added to the range, we ended up with a sculpting and moulding bill of £1800.
So, overall we were over £500 down at this point, and that's not taking into account the time for casting the figures, the costs of the resin Yurt production and the shipping charges to send the packages out.
(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l575/PendrakenMiniatures/Forum%20Stuff/Mongol2_zps03ab1196.jpg) (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/PendrakenMiniatures/media/Forum%20Stuff/Mongol2_zps03ab1196.jpg.html)
Positives
- A great response from the Forum, and elsewhere, and we also had half a dozen new members signing up just to pledge.
- We got to produce a range based on solid interest from our customers, with promised orders as soon as the range was produced.
Negatives
- The pledged to actual orders ratio was quite low, making the whole process less viable.
- Purely as an experiment in this method, we lost quite a chunk of money overall.
In summary, the experiment was a very enjoyable experience. Watching the pledges come in each day was exciting to watch, and the sculpts that Techno was sending through were excellent. We were able to produce a range with a degree of security that we would never normally have, so that was a huge plus.
Would we do it again? Possibly, but we would need to reevaluate the method and make some changes to the process. First off, we would need to go for a much higher initial pledge goal so that we were certain of covering all the costs involved. Secondly, we would need to look at adding some type of upfront deposit to the pledges, so that there was some investment already made prior to the actual ordering stage. We could go through the official Kickstarter route, but then you've got another layer of fees involved (approx 10-15%), so we'd have to have a think about that.
To finish up, we'd like to thank everyone who came along and had a look, whether you pledged, ordered or just posted. It was an interesting experiment, and we'll have a think about Non-Kickstarter Mk II soon...
8)
That's an interesting report - thanks for sharing the experiment, Leon.
I think that if you do repeat this, you should definitely look for (some of the?) money up-front to ensure you get the buy-in return on what will be your speculative investment. I like the idea of you continuing to do this kind of thing in-house (rather than having to pay for KS or IG) - and as long as you're plugged in to all the gamer marketing channels, this should be fine.
Something you might want to (more actively) do is encourage us, as forum members, to use our channels / platforms / blogs / sites / SM etc to actively promote these: I know that there are people that I exchange regular & frequent emails with (and who don't use any other SM) that I could be more actively pointing at those these; ditto re comments & emails I receive via my blog etc.
Overall though, a good start: and, of course, once you open the floodgates to the wider public on these, I'm pretty certain you'll recoup initial investment losses PDQ and start to make money on them.
I, for one, will certainly be rectifying my (house-sale-and-move-inspired) initial omission and getting into this release like the proverbial Big Dog. ;)
I'm sorry to hear that you lost out on the Mongols project.
I don't think you need to run the next one through Kickstarter - just get the pledgers to pay the money upfront
For myself I am extremely happy with the range which went way beyond what I originally hoped for
A big thanks to you and Phil for making it happen
Alan
Quote from: Shedman on 21 February 2014, 11:47:14 PM
I'm sorry to hear that you lost out on the Mongols project.
Despite it being a loss on paper, we certainly wouldn't class it as a loss overall. We were able to produce a comprehensive range with a good chunk of the costs already recouped before we've officially released them, and dabble in this new KS method of bringing things to market.
Thanks to you as well for the initial impetus to try it, and for the help with the structuring of the range.
8)
Firstly, it was great to watch this from start to finish, seeing the sculpts as they came in, and the anticipation of waiting on order forms coming through to the final package arriving at my door.
For future projects of a similar nature, if it was something I was interested in I'd certainly be willing to pay up front if it's Pendraken that's handling it, because at the end of the day your reputation is outstanding and I'm confident you'd deliver. For those less trusting even 25% to 50% of the pledge would I think be enough to ensure the rest of the pledge comes in afterwards?
Overall though, fantastic and job well done.
I thought it was good from my end, shame it lost money. :(
I would be happy to pay up front, or a reasonable deposit, knowing the quality of product that was about to arrive. Normal KS you commit to an amount, once your in, your in.
Something to thunk about...
Just pledged a small amount to the Evil Men KS on indigogo.
I too would be happy to put money up front for someone with Pendraken's track record, if the range were one I was interested in. Mongols not something I'm interested in ... not something I'm very interested in ... not something I was interestedin 'til I saw the d**n sculpts!!
I echo everybody's else's sentiments regarding paying a deposit as long as it was something I was interested in. But on the whole I think its was an experience worth doing.which of course can be improved opon
take care
andy
I am going to say what Leon is far too polite to say.....to the 40% who made a comitment to the project and didnt follow up by placing an order, and worst still in some cases didnt have the courtesy to speak to Leon in person, shame on you.
As usual Pendraken went out if their way on this project to give great customer service, which included expanding the range based on the promised orders that were pledged.I am not going to get holier than thou about this, but to everyobe who didnt pay their dues, Pendraken are out of pocket as a result of your lack of support.
I hope every one of you who didnt meet their commitments enjoy the free painting competition, and the prizes provided by Pendraken......
Leon, for future reference for any future projects just paypal me as soon as I make my comitment, I for one stick by what I promise.
Sermon over....
cheers,
Craig
Hello
Good to see that the project has ended up as a positive experience if not a financially rewarding one (yet).
Nic Robson at Eureka has run his 100 Club and 300 Club for a while now it seems to be holding up. From his website:-
"We ask you to provide your credit card details to show that you are serious in your intent. Charges to your card will only apply after you confirm your order with us ie. when we reach the required number, and will be made after the figures have been produced and despatched to you. All credit card details are retained with your personal security in mind."
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
I really enjoyed seeing this project happen, it was not something that i was personally interested in but a great idea. I would echo all the comments, I'm sure that it will be a financial success, just a shame all the pledges were not honored. I think if you do this again, seriously interested people would gladly put a deposit down.
Over all i think it was a success, some really excellent figs from Techno,( which i will be painting soon :D) and getting more people interested in 10mm.
kev
IF the Aztecs ever happen this way, I'll gladly pay 100% in advance and a sponsor's fee withal.
Interesting to see how it went, how the figures balanced out etc. I hope you are able to more of this sort of thing in the future. For me I would expect to pay a deposit up front to show my commitment and to help get things rolling. I would love it if you were able to take this route for a Polish '39 range :D.
60% return is maybe disappointing but far from a disaster, the diversity in the range is superb. I for one would gladly pay up front in the future if it was something I was interested in.
(barded horses would be nice though ;))
I agree though. If you've pledged you should buy. Hope those of you that didn't have got jolly red faces! I assume though that the Mongols will make an appearance in the Pendraken catalogue. Seems wasteful not to!
Perhaps next time, we (the nuts in the Pebdraken museli) could be polled on our preference? *ahem* Byzantines or chariot armies, anyone?
I echo the deposit sentiments ... a pledged is a promise, thus it should be substantiated somehow. I'll leave it to the Pendraken gang to decide how much to make it tenable.
So what is next?
hi
i am hesitant to write on here for fear of being ridiculed for going against the grain and reiterating my view that the figures just dont do it for me
i have large armies of pendraken fpw loa falklands and have been a fairly regular buyer
i joined the kickstarter bought books and dusted down my memories of mongolia nad northern china where i lived and the chinese history i studied at uni
i bought half my pledge at once and will honour my next 10 packs although even painted i an not personally convinced
i am sure someone will make a smart ass comment about not being able to see theit teeth but for me the figures are too slight and so are the horses
with this in mnd i am going to put them on ebay so i will make a loss too but i dont want Leon to be put off at all
alternatively i will sell the 20 packs and freebies for 75% here and reinvest the £20 in pendraken figures
if interested in this let me know if not ebay it is
sorry an amazing idea didnt work but had i seen in the flesh i wouldnt have joined hence no more kickstarters
shame the shows are dropping by the wayside this year too
i think a crisis is in the air for the hobby as reveille (my local) was down on previous years in terms of new traders/products and the b and b seemed to have very few bargains and alot of overpriced items
While I had no current interest in the project due to prior commitments, I agree entirel
with the view that a non-refundable up-front payment with the pledge must be the way forward.
There must be a more concrete commitment on the part of the people expressing a sincere
interest. That would give Pendraken a clearer indication of real interest.
I for one would have no problem with such a deposit to support a range I really wanted.
Chad
Are the mongols in the January sale package?
Are the mongols featured on the company face book page, Twitter, etc,etc....
Perhaps a visual figure display at the next few shows would bump sales, a nice Genghis dvd running in the background,
would grab attention too.
Quote from: TinyTerrain on 22 February 2014, 02:28:21 AM
I am going to say what Leon is far too polite to say.....to the 40% who made a comitment to the project and didnt follow up by placing an order, and worst still in some cases didnt have the courtesy to speak to Leon in person, shame on you.
I have to say I totally agree with Craig on this. I am very dissapointed that there are that many members on this forum who have taken advantage of Pendraken in this way.
No one forced you to pledge -If you have pledged you should honour that pledge. I appreciate personal circumstances change, but you should honour it as best you can, at the very least you owe Dave and Leon an apology
Quote from: sakura on 22 February 2014, 01:34:17 PM
hi
i am hesitant to write on here for fear of being ridiculed for going against the grain and reiterating my view that the figures just dont do it for me.
With a KS or this sort of project you are taking a gamble (I feel a very small one in Pendrakens case). But in return you are getting a chance to get an input into whats in the range, a reassonable 10% off and additional freebies.
I have not seen the figures "in the flesh" so I cannot comment on his views, and in any case he is fully entitled to them. More Importantly he has been man enough to stand up and explain why he does not like them and also to honour his pledge regardless - Well done Sakura.
I did not pledge to this project as it was not of sufficient interest for me to start another project with so much in my lead pile. (LH will now bang on about WSS British that I have not done in 2 years :))
As to future projects I do think that a reasonable amount up front is the way to go.
For the record too would be happy to stump up the full amount of my pledge up front
Quote from: fsn on 22 February 2014, 11:15:49 AM
Perhaps next time, we (the nuts in the Pebdraken museli) could be polled on our preference? *ahem* Byzantines or chariot armies, anyone?
I am up for some Chariot Armies please :-bd
Between Indiegogo and Paypal, using the fixed method, I give them a bit less than 9%.
I think you should at least have some visuals : concept or sculpts. People need to have a visual support to feed their desire.
The ones who pledged and did not honour their pledge are lowest of the low >:(
Hi all,
I made a pledge when the project was announced, it was I believe the smallest pledge made (12pounds) but a pledge all the same and I fully intend to honour it.
If anything I will be purchasing a lot more than my pledge suggestedm
I've not been on the forum for a while, I made clear a while ago that a change in circumstances and health issues had put a temporary halt to my indulgence in the hobby, things are getting better but at the moment I'm still in a financial struggle and this is why I have yet to place my order.
I've seen the range and can't wait to get my hands on the figures but I must prioritise until my finances improve.
Rest assured my pledge will be honoured as soon as I am able to meet it.
I hope fellow members do not think too badly of me for the delay, I do love the Pendraken ranges and look forward to being able to buy at least an army pack so that I can get back to painting and having work to contribute.
Cheers
Ry
My mistake, it's 25quid.
Had a look at my finances this morning and it looks like 3 weeks before I'll be able to call in to seal the order.
They are lovely sculpts and I'm looking forward to them, please accept my sincerest apologies for the delay.
Cheers
Ry
I don't think you're the subject of all this contempt.
Ryman,
How's things, good to see you on the forum. Those of us who have been on the forum for a while know you've been through a tough time. Certainly my post wasn't aimed at you.
Glad to see you back and that things are working themselves out for you.
Cheers,
Craig
No Ry, as FK says, you're definitely NOT.
Hope things are getting a bit more on track for you now. :)
Personally.... 'somewhat' disappointed that the take up to pledges ratio ended up so low.
Didn't expect it to be as low as the 60% quoted, though I thought Leon would have done extremely well to get an absolute 'full house'.
Maybe more folk felt as Sakura, that they weren't quite what they were after ?
Though I thought 'we' showed enough Wips early on to show what was coming.
Seems to have been a bit of a Marmiite reaction. Some loved them.....some didn't.
Cheers - Phil.
With everyone's sentiments Ry.
As someone who has absolutely zero (0, nil, nothing, no) interest in Mongols, may I just say that the sculpts are gorgeous. I honestly don't think that anyone with even a vague interest in the Khan's Kids would not love them. You may be getting feedback I'm not, but reading through the posts it seems to me a more common reaction is "not for me, but beautifully done."
Perhaps others who did not follow up on their pledge could offer feedback to Leon as to why. Not for berating purposes, but for feedback, so that the process could perhaps be modified with the upcoming chariot armies kickstarter :D. We grow by learning.
Cheers folks,
Sorry my post does look slightly defensive now I read it back, not intended, just thought it worth explaining that I'm still up for the project.
I can understand the frustration at only 6/10 people keeping to it, I do hope it doesn't prevent future non-kickstarter projects.
Some great ideas re: collecting funds prior to launching, seeing as freebies were offered to all pledgers there can be no complaints if HQ decide that's the safest way to proceed.
Anyway, loving the work you're all posting, can't wait to join in again.
Cheers
Ry
Yeah I must echo fsn comments I had absolutely no interest in the mongols as a project. But I aso thought they were wonderful sculptures and would honour anyone's battlefield.
Take care
andy
Its a shame that this proved to be a rather qualified success - mainly due to getting a low conversion of pledges to cash.
I can think of 3 reasons why this might happen
1) Its very easy to make a post saying I'm in for £50. Its rather more of a commitment to go to Paypal and send the money. But both Kickstarted and Indiegogo make you pay at the start. Your money is spent unless the funding target is not made.
2) Changes in circumstances - this happens. But at least a note to Leon to let him know what's up would be polite. (So ryman well done in speaking up)
3) Dislike of the figures - this can happen. There were a number of greens shown, but I think mostly after pledging closed (not certain of the timing of this). Perhaps it is necessary to have a couple of figures on show at the start? Then pledgers have a better idea of what they are getting.
There are quite a few positives though.
The Mongols, and Barbarian's current Indiegogo seem to indicate that raising £2000+ is a very realistic target for a new range. I also don't think either campaign had major promotion, so bigger targets may be possible.
This seems to be enough money to also pay for a decent breadth to a range, in both sculpting and moulding.
Pendraken have a new range of figures - that can be sold for many years, with nearly all the development costs already paid for. I suspect with cash being king, having a future income stream perhaps isn't great news.
A couple of general comments.
I can understand sakura's views on the cavalry. Personally I think the horses are small - but look about the right size for the type of horse they are meant to be. I also think the riders are too small - but I also understand Techno and Clib's points about having to get the overall look right, even if this compromises on keeping everything absolutely to scale. Looking at photos of mongols on their horses - they look quite ridiculous to our eyes, being so used to big western horses. So I think miniatures of riders strictly in scale would have looked wrong.
I would be happy to pledge up front. But I think in general using one of the established platforms (Kickstarter / indiegogo )for this would be better, as a wider range of people will have more trust in this as a process. Those of us who post regularly here have a well founded trust of Pendraken. But if you want to reach a wider audience then it is better to offer them something established.
Chariot Wars - no thanks.
many thanks for the more measured response this time to my views ( i have amore than passing academic and personal reason for wanting mongols!!!)
marmite sums it up and the friends i have shown the figures too agree that i have apoint
as to the 3 ups it is hard to judge size overall
i guess having got the loa figures which set a new standard imho i was expecting similar size putting down my fpw sculpts and winged hussars as being just old and hence small
oriental size is aproblem
i have 28mm samurai the same size as 28mm europeans to me that is the way to go
as i said before i am over 6ft but in northern china i was above average but just
most chinese in uk come from south where on average height is less
if anyone wants the 20 packs and freebies i have (still have 9 to buy to honour my pledge) b4 ebay let me know
cheers
Quote
I can understand sakura's views on the cavalry. Personally I think the horses are small - but look about the right size for the type of horse they are meant to be. I also think the riders are too small - but I also understand Techno and Clib's points about having to get the overall look right, even if this compromises on keeping everything absolutely to scale. Looking at photos of mongols on their horses - they look quite ridiculous to our eyes, being so used to big western horses. So I think miniatures of riders strictly in scale would have looked wrong.
The size did really bug me when I received my order. I'm painting a few for the comp at the mo and when finished the size disparity does seem less. Maybe in hindsight they would've been better on standard horses. I think the smaller horses forced Phil's hand somewhat. Barded horses would also be nice ;)
Quote(still have 9 to buy to honour my pledge)
That's seems a waste why not just order something of similar value you want. Otherwise you lose out and Leon loses out because someone wanting Mongols will just buy yours = lost sale for Leon.
thanks again for the suggestion
my idea was to make sure leon didnt lose out
i would be happy to do so but would still be left with the figs i have to go on ebay
any money i recouped would be spent on figs and i would lose 25 quid or so
i am most glad to see that some people do see my point about size and so far havent felt the need to be sarcastic
restored my faith
Ryman,
Good to see you back.
My comments were not aimed at you or anyone else who has had similar difficulties. These things happen.
I'm not sure the smaller size is that much of an issue, Yes they are smaller, but compared to themselves they are fine and when set up against an opposing army that is a bit bigger (Arabs in my case atm) they still look okay as the army itself is uniform enough in size, it'd only be if you were mixing manufacturers with the range that you may encounter problems.
I have everything from small 10mm minis to big 10mm minis and even some (Kallistra) which are nearer 12mm; the difference in size is hardly noticeable at all on the battlefield.
The bigger issue here is that people have pledged and then failed to honour that pledge. In addition, as far as I can ascertain from Leon's honest, restrained and gentlemanly comments, these people haven't had the good grace to email him or Dave to explain their position.
I realise there will be exceptions to the above and to those people, who have handled this honestly and honourably, I mean you no disrespect.
On a more positive note, I think the minis are a brilliant representation of Mongols and can't wait to start the army in earnest. :)
here here Mr. Grips
Thanks for all the comments and feedback, it's really appreciated. I'm glad that folk have been able to discuss the pro's and con's as well without it getting personal.
At this end, we were never expecting to get the full amount of pledged income, as there are so many reasons why folk might not have the money/interest by the time the figures were ready. A note to say they couldn't fulfill the order would be nice, but again people are busy and we understand that.
Some of the suggestions for 'Non-KS Mk II' are very good as well. This one was always going to be the guinea pig, where we just tested the water to see how well the method worked. If we were going to do another one, we'd have some sculpts to show off first, plus we'd have a higher goal, more extensive promotion, and the upfront deposit discussed earlier. The real discussion point there is what to do next?! (Techno will be doing Biblical stuff anyway, so I don't know if that's worth doing).
One final point to reiterate though: If we hadn't done the Non-KS, then we'd now be £1800 down praying for some strong sales on release. As it stands, we've already got £1200 of sales and we've got a full range in production, ready for release this week sometime. I'm fairly certain that we can make that money back in the coming months and have a profitable range in a short period of time.
8)
Quote from: Leon on 24 February 2014, 03:40:06 PM
Techno will be doing Biblical stuff anyway
:o :o :o
Feeding the 5,000?
Making the blind see?
Combing his hair?
:D :D :D
Well from his latest weather reports...Parting the Red Sea might be closer to the mark
Quote from: get2grips on 24 February 2014, 04:43:45 PM
:o :o :o
Combing his hair?
:D :D :D
Are there any tutorials on the net showing how to do that ?
Does it mean I'll have to go and buy 'a comb' ? (Whatever that is........Thought it was what chickens had on the top of their heads.) ;)
Quote from: Fenton on 24 February 2014, 04:45:07 PM
Well from his latest weather reports...Parting the Red Sea might be closer to the mark
Yes......I'm SO looking forward to tomorrow.....The annoying thing is, that I was hoping to get out with the watering can and give some of the plants a much needed drink.
Cheers - Mr Scruffy
So, when we say 'Biblical' ... do we include perhaps Myceneans in Dendra armour?
I need a proxy for Daleks.
QuoteThe real discussion point there is what to do next?!
Initial thoughts are:
- What gaps do you have in an already pretty comprehensive range?
- Will they be fairly niche (Falklands & Aztecs etc) or more mainstream (say Cold War forces)?
- Will you use it to re-do a range with added stuff that was missing first time around?
Personally I would like the following:
- Polish army for 1939.
- It is mainstream and the big gap missing in your WWII range.
- As vehicles already exist with Pithead, you could just concentrate on the infantry to lessen the risk.
- Even though a mainstream army for a major conflict, it could be argued that it is still rather niche. But then we have the Finns, which are even more so IMHO.
Just some thoughts to kick off a few more ideas (hopefully) from other forum members...
Hmmmm ... chariot armies are in the pipeline, Byzantines can be shoehorned in from other ranges, we have been promised 1946 and Korea, and the British Napoleonics will be with us " 'ere summer swallows dance and flit."
I'm running out of stuff to want! :'( :'( :'(
Has anyone taken a look at Peter Berry's Baccus Forum? He seems to be exploring similar issues, including asking people to identify proxies for troops not in the current ranges, and suggestions for filling in "gaps" in existing ranges. I am always up for supportIng Pendraken to fill in the gaps I need filling. Perhaps the next might be a personality figure of Leon, in a variety of different uniforms, to inspire all our troops! Obviously, following the recent photo, a "Leon as Baldrick" would be a good start, but where next? Leon as Napoleon, Leon as Frederick the Great, Leon as Julius Caesar? I am sure our sculptors would welcome working from a "model"!?? :o ;D
Mollinary
The initial options I'd think would be either:
- An extension of the Modern ranges? We could do a multi-range non-KS, where the first target would be the Chinese troops for Korea, then the second goal would be 1980's Cold War Russians, and then finally we could look at some modern African 'AK47' style figures? Those would all fit with the modern vehicles we've already got, and would give a lot more options for 1950-present day.
- An opponent for the Mongols, either medieval Russians or some Chinese maybe?
Quote from: Steve J on 24 February 2014, 06:55:35 PM
- Polish army for 1939.
- It is mainstream and the big gap missing in your WWII range.
- As vehicles already exist with Pithead, you could just concentrate on the infantry to lessen the risk.
- Even though a mainstream army for a major conflict, it could be argued that it is still rather niche. But then we have the Finns, which are even more so IMHO.
The Polish are certainly something we'd like to do, but with there already being two different styles of sculpt in the WWII ranges (Brits/Germans vs USMC/Japanese), I'm wary of adding a third style with Phil's sculpts. That's not a slight on any of the designers, just that different sculptors produce slightly different looking figures. Ideally, we'd wait until after the WWI extension was complete and assign the Polish to that chap instead.
8)
Quote from: mollinary on 24 February 2014, 07:41:51 PM
I am sure our sculptors would welcome working from a "model"!?? :o ;DMollinary
I volunteer Clibby..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
I have taken a different tack...
Large amount of money sent to Phil for CENSORED.
You mean I'm not allowed to tell anyone else that I'm doing some CENSORED for you Will ?
I'll send you some photos in the next couple of days. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
I think I would go for Moderns next. Then Mongol opponents.
Mainly as those who bought Mongols, will be busy painting or have spent up. And in a year or so will be ready for the opponents.
And Moderns are likely to appeal to a different segment of customers.
I can see the appeal of the modern stuff. Would make sense to have some support for those T55's.
Not that fussed about Mongols, or their enemies ... though ancient Chinese ... maybe ...
If you're looking for some small additions (2-3 codes), how about some late C19 US frontier citizens (OK cowboys) and maybe Apaches; some meta-humans for the SF range (OK super heroes) and I'd like to see the British Commandos for WWII extended.
I'm not a big one for the Desert War, but how about raiders/LRDG?
Napoleonic Marines ... perhaps a sloop or frigate?
WWII Armoured trains ... to go with the Poles.
Brilliant, I would love to see photos of my (censored), especially with their (censored), (censored)and (censored)! ;)
For those of you who know my wants, they're opponents for a pre-existing range I already own. ;)
I would buy some ultra-modern stuff (Afghanistan 2001-2012) : helicopters, HMMWV, Strykers, Bradley... Technicals for the insurgent...
Quote from: fsn on 24 February 2014, 08:45:06 PM
If you're looking for some small additions (2-3 codes), how about some late C19 US frontier citizens (OK cowboys) and maybe Apaches; I'm not a big one for the Desert War, but how about raiders/LRDG?
Napoleonic Marines ... perhaps a sloop or frigate?
yep sounds good to me :)
oh and Aztecs :)
Just found this thread by the way so apologies.
Throwing my tuppence-worth into the ring I would like to say that from a retailing point of view the whole thing was a great learning curve for everybody involved with the Mongols and I totally agree with paying a certain percentage or even all of it up-front for any future projects.
The down side is that only 60% of the pledgees/pledgers(?) made good on their promise, that's between them and their conscience, I'm not going to judge. But on the up-side, you now have a great range of figures -apart from barded horses which are an absolute must for the keshig- that will keep going for some time.
To respond to Sakura's comments, I agree with him about the life size differences but I don't think it's that big an issue in 10mm and as someone else pointed out get it accurate and you run the risk of being ridiculed. I mean, look at some of the relative comparisons for the larger scales and this new fangled phrase 'scale-creep' that's started to creep (sorry) into the language. It's horses for courses.
My personal impression of the new Mongols is that unlike some other manufacturers' ranges they are in proportion and are 10mm not 12 or even bigger! I like em and if I didn't already have over 250 of the little chaps (now from three different manufacturers) I would most definitely get some more. Although saying that, those dismounted chaps look a bit nice.
As far as new/niche chaps are concerned, I would like to see Medieval Russians but I'm sure that would be catagorised as a niche project whereas most work must go into mainstream due to the current economic climate.
Here's an idea. Do a poll on the forum with a list of options that you see are possibilities and see what the response is. You could always stick an 'Other' category on the end for someone who would like to see something like the Inner London Sheep Wars of 1726.
On the subject of other ranges, Medieval Chinese and Russians would be great for the Mongols, but as was mentioned by someone I fall into the category of having a lot of painting to catch up on and some saving up to do before I get onto my next purchases (Which is likely to be Romans, Greeks or WW2 Russians)
But I'd say stick to your polls and see what comes up.
In the spirit of building on existing ranges, I would have thought that infantry to go with the terrific modern AFVs currently being produced would be a high priority. Korean War Chinese have already been mentioned, but what about Israeli and Arab forces (there are figures in various ranges that would take very little modification), or late twentieth century WarPac and NATO troops? As FOW have proved, there is a demand for mechanised warfare kit.
The biggest area with holes in it would appear to be the ancients, however the death of Warmaster Ancients seems to have slowed down the whole 10mm ancients scene.
Pendraken also cover most popular ancients range so you'd probably be looking at a the more obscure armies like the bronze age, however these don't appear to be a niche market, not the most particularly popular with players which is a shame.
The only obvious gaps I can see and which I'd happily pledge to would be Ancient Chinese, there's a lot of scope here and pre-columban America with a conquistador range to take them on.
Quote from: DanJ on 25 February 2014, 12:08:20 PM
The biggest area with holes in it would appear to be the ancients, however the death of Warmaster Ancients seems to have slowed down the whole 10mm ancients scene.
Pendraken also cover most popular ancients range so you'd probably be looking at a the more obscure armies like the bronze age, however these don't appear to be a niche market, not the most particularly popular with players which is a shame.
The only obvious gaps I can see and which I'd happily pledge to would be Ancient Chinese, there's a lot of scope here and pre-columban America with a conquistador range to take them on.
No, there are still a large number of big holes among the popular ancient armies. The Hellenistic and Achaemenids alone need a
lot more figures.
Ancients is the bottomless pit of figure manufacture - people think it's Napoleonics, it isn't: Ancients is just VAST :o
I'd be all over 10mm ancients. . . except I have several tens of thousands of 15mm already and I suspect most of similar age (WRG pedigree types that were weaned on the purple primer and grew up with Bakerese through the death throes of DBMM and the godless creation that was FOG) are similar, too much investment, too many mutually morphing assemblages to even consider realistically changing scales. And those that didn't do that did the 28mm WRG to WAB thing.
10mm ancients relied on WMA for new growth and that proved a flash in the pan, we tried to like it, we truly did but it was broke and frustrating not least in the brash way it was supported by its fanboyz but even then we couldn't envisage a change in scale - mind that hasn't stopped me purchasing random bits and bobs of 6mm and 10mm ancients - but they just represent weakness and gullability :D
Now anything between 1300 and 1930 that's an open book for 10mm for me :D
Hi, for future projects I think pictures of a few prototype greens would really help. Once I saw the pictures of the sculpts, I could have kicked myself for not participating. Will have to buy in now.
I was tempted, but not enough to commit. I'm more tempted now by the really nice sculpts, but I've so much else to do and so little likelihood of using them I'll hang off! I knew that'd be the case so despite being tempted by chucking a tenner in I held back... still, I guess if you run another you'll know where you are money wise; expect @two thirds to hit the commit button when it's ready to go.
A "late buy in" stage might be good tho - although would that dilute the earlier pledges?
Wasn't the original pledge simply to buy a given number of the figures when available? That being the case, wouldn't any order support the cause?
(Go on - you know you want to!)
QuoteNo, there are still a large number of big holes among the popular ancient armies. The Hellenistic and Achaemenids alone need a lot more figures.
I've got all those and many other armies too so I was thinking about armies which I don't have and which aren't available from other 10mm manufaturers.
It depends if we're talking about adding the more popular ancients armies or looking for new products for potentially new markets.
Quote from: DanJ on 02 April 2014, 03:58:19 PM
or looking for new products for potentially new markets.
18th century Turks, Persians and Indians fits that bill
Quote18th century Turks, Persians and Indians fits that bill
Certainly would and I'd sign up for any of them but would they be economically viable?
Apparently the mongols have made it to my home, I can`t wait to check them out....
Quote from: marie on 05 April 2014, 12:29:13 PM
Apparently the mongols have made it to my home, I can`t wait to check them out....
Arent they a bit warm in all that mail and fur
IanS
Got them, love them, sprayed them...... :)