Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Resources => Resources - Ancients to Renaissance (3000BC - 1680) => Topic started by: Druzhina on 15 February 2014, 09:51:07 AM

Title: Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547
Post by: Druzhina on 15 February 2014, 09:51:07 AM
Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547 (http://warfare2.netai.net/Renaissance/Codice_De_Trajes-64v.htm). A German manuscript held in Spain.
The arm harness worn on the left arm reminds me of that worn in Irish warriors, 'DRAVN AFTER THE QVICKE' (http://warfare.atspace.eu/Irish/Irish_Warriors-Dravn_After_The_Qvicke.htm) and carried in Irish as they stand accoutred being at the service of the late King Henry, by Lucas d'Heere (http://warfare2.netai.net/Renaissance/Deheere-81.htm)
(http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=12189&d=1392456834)

MIRROR SITES
Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547 (http://warfare.likamva.in/Renaissance/Codice_De_Trajes-64v.htm)
Irish warriors, 'DRAVN AFTER THE QVICKE' (http://warfare.uphero.com/Irish/Irish_Warriors-Dravn_After_The_Qvicke.htm)
Irish as they stand accoutred being at the service of the late King Henry, by Lucas d'Heere (http://warfare.likamva.in/Renaissance/Deheere-81.htm)

Druzhina
Illustrations of Irish Costume & Soldiers (http://warfare.atspace.eu/Irish/Irish.htm)
Title: Re: Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 15 February 2014, 10:50:16 AM
True life images or propaganda to make them look savage?  :-\
Title: Re: Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547
Post by: Techno on 15 February 2014, 11:03:28 AM
Did they really not use any sort of footwear ?
Genuine question from one who knows nothing.
Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547
Post by: Sunray on 15 February 2014, 12:40:47 PM
I did a bit of research into this a few years ago.  Footware would have been uncommon in the summer months. As indeed were the bare legs.  Scottish Gaelic warriors (Galloglass) were known as "redshanks".  (red legs).

The bare feet actually gave better purchase than smooth leather soles in grass or uneven ground .  Indeed there is well documented evidence of Welsh archers in Edward I army at Falkirk, fighting with one or both shoes removed for the same reason. That is as late as 1298.

Ireland in the sixteenth century was a bit like the Somerset Levels today.  Even Elizabethan English officers like Captain Thomas Lee is depicted in Marcus Gheeraerts' painting as being barefoot.
Title: Re: Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547
Post by: Techno on 15 February 2014, 03:33:23 PM
Ta for that Sunray.

Now you mention the 'one shoe' warriors.....That rings a bell from a few months (?) ago, on the forum....
Cheers - Phil
Title: Shoes
Post by: Druzhina on 16 February 2014, 02:47:05 AM
From another forum: (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,287018.msg6865665.html#msg6865665)
Quote from: Grammaticus
Quote from: Druzhina
Grammaticus,

Do you have any views on shoe wearing by Irish soldiers?

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers (http://scylitzes.webs.com/index.htm)

We know from the archaelogical record, as well as certain written resources, that the Gaelic Irish certainly wore shoes. A.T. Lucas' essay "Footwear in Ireland" explains this position quite well. However, there certainly was a period of time where the Irish, in particular the nobility, went barefoot despite the fact that for centuries beforehand they wore shoes and sandals. Katharine Simms, in her essay, "Barefoot Kings: Literary Image and Reality in Later Medieval Ireland" posits that this sudden shift in appearance stemmed from a conscious desire on the part the Gaelic nobility to ape aspects of their mythical past as portrayed in poems like the Tain Bo Cualinge (I lacked the ability to add accents over the necessary letters, forgive me Irish-speakers). Essentially, Gaelic nobles wished to look and act more like members of society from a supposed Gaelic "golden age" that existed before the introduction of the English to their island; in doing this, they celebrated a return to the warrior values espoused in their legendary poetic cycles. It's possible not all the Gaelic nobility of Ireland participated in this particular fashion statement, but it was widespread in parts of Ulster and Leinster at least.

So the short answer: yes, they wore shoes, but around the late medieval era, some chose to not wear shoes as a sort of cultural fashion statement.


Quote from: Techno on 15 February 2014, 03:33:23 PM
Ta for that Sunray.

Now you mention the 'one shoe' warriors.....That rings a bell from a few months (?) ago, on the forum....
Cheers - Phil

Yes, but the only evidence I know of for Welsh wearing one shoe is drawings by English public servants of Welsh soldiers from Littere Wallie, in Liber A in the Public Record Office (http://warfare2.netai.net/Medieval/Chapter_House-Liber_A.htm). I would be interested in the sources for wearing one shoe at Falkirk (rather than none).

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers (http://warfare.atspace.eu/index.htm)
Title: Re: Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547
Post by: FierceKitty on 16 February 2014, 02:52:00 AM
Why would bare legs have been uncommon in summer?
- Perplexed Paddy.
Title: Re: Irish Piper & Warrior in the Códice De Trajes, 1547
Post by: nikharwood on 16 February 2014, 08:05:27 AM
Quote from: Sunray on 15 February 2014, 12:40:47 PM
Ireland in the sixteenth century was a bit like the Somerset Levels today.

What, entirely submerged?  :(