A little question about horses.
In the ACW, what horse colours were most common, it's hard to find much info about that so thought i'd ask.
I have painted my first base of cavalry last year with one white for the officer and a brown and a black for the men.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC02595_zps46f34d1f.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC02595_zps46f34d1f.jpg.html)
I am now getting started on the other ones and thought i'd ask up front. I know in the napoleonic era there were some specifications as to who could ride wich colour of horse, but can't tell if the same applied to the acw.
Thanks in advance!
What is a "white"?
I think horse colours are pretty much standard all over the world..various shades of brown would do the trick I would have thought
Quote from: FierceKitty on 28 January 2014, 10:42:52 AM
What is a "white"?
Yeah i know they are referred to as greys, but you know what i mean :P
Quote from: Fenton on 28 January 2014, 10:55:18 AM
I think horse colours are pretty much standard all over the world..various shades of brown would do the trick I would have thought
I don't mean the colours themselves, but was there some sort of 'convention'? You know, 'white' for the general black for the mzn or something like that.
Have an ask on the ACW board on TMP ...although it can be a silly place at times there are people on there that know their stuff
Quote from: Fenton on 28 January 2014, 11:50:55 AM
Have an ask on the ACW board on TMP ...although it can be a silly place at times there are people on there that know their stuff
I checked the TMP but found nothing. Lots for napoleonics but nothing ACW. I don't post on TMP though.
Would you like me to post question for you?
Ok an answer already from TMP
Officers bought their own horses so were free to buy whatever they liked. The troopers received replacement horses and they were every color with no regard to regiment/troop/company.
In the early days of the war buglers tended to be mounted on light coloured horses so that the commanding officer could find him in the fray. Obviously it made him and easy target for the enemy and the practice was discontinued.
Quote from: Tobbe on 28 January 2014, 03:37:59 PM
In the early days of the war buglers tended to be mounted on light coloured horses so that the commanding officer could find him in the fray. Obviously it made him and easy target for the enemy and the practice was discontinued.
forums like these are just so informative and you end up learning something new every time you log on
take care
andy
Quote from: Fenton on 28 January 2014, 12:42:04 PM
Ok an answer already from TMP
Officers bought their own horses so were free to buy whatever they liked. The troopers received replacement horses and they were every color with no regard to regiment/troop/company.
Thanks!! So fair game to mix it up!
Quote from: Tobbe on 28 January 2014, 03:37:59 PM
In the early days of the war buglers tended to be mounted on light coloured horses so that the commanding officer could find him in the fray. Obviously it made him and easy target for the enemy and the practice was discontinued.
Thanks! I thought this was for the napoleonic era only, didn't know it went as far as that!!
Polish lancers mounted their trumpeter on greys.
In the uk you wouldn't use a coloured horse (piebald etc.) As they were seen as gypsy horses and therefore not worth using. Technically my boy is coloured as he has a white spot on his belly.
Unfotunately I can't find my cavalry books giving colours and sizes. On the upside I found Nolan's training manual and the 1796 manual on training the cavalryman
The other consideration is breed characteristics at the time.
If its a western campaign you can sneak in a few palaminos as they were highly prized especially in Texas, otherw mix them up as they had to make do with whatever nags they could get hold of. This is even more true of Southern States later in the war.
Well i'm going for the later stages in the war mostly so mix and matching seems okay if you figure the replacements.
Thanks all! I knew i could count on you lot ;)
So what mix of colours do people use for horses in general?
I tend to do about 1/5 each of: Bay, Chestnut, Brown, Black, Dun and mix them up a bit on the bases.
For some reason I really strugge with greys so tend not to do them
Regards,
Paul
2/3 chestnut.
Then in amounts, decreasing...
Roan
Dun
Black
Grey (paint grey, black wash, stipple highlight with dead no 2 brush)
Grey (as if in grey, not white)
Bay
Palamino
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 January 2014, 07:02:57 PM
If its a western campaign you can sneak in a few palaminos as they were highly prized especially in Texas, otherw mix them up as they had to make do with whatever nags they could get hold of. This is even more true of Southern States later in the war.
I didn't think Palaminos were bred until the eighteen-seventies? Oh, and pretty well all European armies used the convention of mounting trumpeters on greys - including the Brits. Still do in the Household Cavalry.
mostly chestnut and bays then a few greys, black and the odd dun.
did used to do piebald and skewbald but bloody hard work at this scale.
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 29 January 2014, 11:23:11 AM
mostly chestnut and bays then a few greys, black and the odd dun.
did used to do piebald and skewbald but bloody hard work at this scale.
Guess what colours my plains wars mounted warrior's horses are going to be ;D
They would be my only exception. Plains Indians have to be on piebalds
good luck with them, a very, very, very, small sponge dipped in white paint may help :)
Quote from: petercooman on 28 January 2014, 05:23:45 PM
Thanks! I thought this was for the napoleonic era only, didn't know it went as far as that!!
Most everything taught at West Point was French in origin. The Hardee infantry tactical manual was translated from French.
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 29 January 2014, 03:29:58 PM
good luck with them, a very, very, very, small sponge dipped in white paint may help :)
the couple I have done so far seem to have worked using inks over pale coat... will do some more and then get the photos done.... well... get better photos done
I have found over the years that 49 out of every 50 horses I have seen outside in the wild is a Vallejo Beige Brown colour...which is very lucky for me as I have lots of Beige Brown paint
Quote from: Fenton on 30 January 2014, 10:11:55 AM
I have found over the years that 49 out of every 50 horses I have seen outside in the wild is a Vallejo Beige Brown colour...
There's a
right, royal old mixture around here..... (You should see the variations in just Mrs T's 'brood'. ;))
About the only colour I haven't seen since moving to the 'Land of the Wet' is a palomino......And they were pretty damn rare, even where I used to live.
Do we actually know....From a historical perspective...The colours of horses from the last few hundred years.....Or longer ?
(Serious question...For a change.)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Fenton on 30 January 2014, 10:11:55 AM
I have found over the years that 49 out of every 50 horses I have seen outside in the wild is a Vallejo Beige Brown colour...which is very lucky for me as I have lots of Beige Brown paint
Quote from: Techno on 30 January 2014, 11:00:30 AM
There's a right, royal old mixture around here..... (You should see the variations in just Mrs T's 'brood'. ;))
Yep - my six are all widely different colours. Apart from now, when they are all a remarkably similar shade of "muddy field".
Not sure what Vallejo number that is though... ;)
Napoleonic colours - we know from the records as it gives regiments and colours of their mounts, however is a bay in 1812 the same as a bay now. the further back we go the less we will know of their true colours -
Quote from: nikharwood on 30 January 2014, 11:27:50 PM
Yep - my six are all widely different colours. Apart from now, when they are all a remarkably similar shade of "muddy field".
I keep trying to get Mrs T to get rid of ours....Then we could 'step' all the fields and grow rice.....There MUST be enough water there. =)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Maenoferren on 30 January 2014, 11:48:38 PM
Napoleonic colours - we know from the records as it gives regiments and colours of their mounts, however is a bay in 1812 the same as a bay now. the further back we go the less we will know of their true colours -
Pat Condray in his
Swedish and Russian Armies of the Great Northern War notes that it was believed in Sweden that the darker a horse the stronger. Heavy cavalry therefore tended to ride black horses. Christopher Duffy's
The Army of Frederick the Great also remarks that "The darkness of the coat was seen as a sign of quality. Thus in 1751 Frederick stipulated that the very blackest horses should go to the cuirassiers, and those of passable black or blackish-brown to the dragoons." Napoleon instituted a similar order during his reign.
I came across this blog (http://dariocaballeros.blogspot.nl/) about equestrian history recently, it has a lot of nice stuff in it.
Have to say I just root out every brown I can find, from Black to Dark Yellow, and star with black - working lighter. Totally unrealistic but looks right, particularly if you add white sock, stars and blazes. The "official" regimental colours went by the way in action. Indeed in 1914 the only British regiment with uniform colours of horse was the Scots Greys, and they dyed their horses for camouflage reasons (no not DPM). Greys were considered unlucky in medieval armies, cause they stood out.
IanS ;)
For ACW horses I would suggest a good look at the paintings of Don Troiani. He's known for his thorough research and the colours he uses will definitely be a good guide to authentic colors and proportions. Also if he puts a certain colonel or general on a specific type/colour of horse you can bet money on it that that is as close to the real thing as you could possibly get!
heers,
Rob