Can anyone give me any narrative supporting the battle of Stallupönen in 1914
This is a good map for the two early battles but no lower level detail.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/maps/graphics/maps_16_east_prussia1914_2_(1600).jpg
Eastern front is my preferred front irrespective of my 1916 dalliance with brits
The main German defence line in East Prussia was at Gumbinnen, where it was thought the best place to attack Rennenkampf once his communications became stretched. Unfortunately for this plan German I Corps , commanded by General Francois, was made up of East Prussians unwilling to give up their homeland. Advancing beyond Gumbinnen they came across two Russian brigades at Stalluponen that had got ahead of their artillery and attacked them. Von Prittwittz, commander of German forces in East Prussia, had ordered Francois to return to the main army at the Gumbinnen lines, but Francois ignored the order stating that, "the nearer to Russia I engage the enemy, the less risk to German territory." Coming across the two Russian brigades Francois attacked, defeated them and returned to the Gumbinnen lines with 3000 prisoners. ( Alan Clark - The Eastern Front pp.26,27)
Thanks for the info. What I can't tell if from the picture if the attack against the Brigades (Division ID ?) was from the whole of the I Corps of just one Division and what the other symbology represents. I want a smallish action (at the scale I play) so a Division vs a Division (-) would be ideal.
Usual piece that English language sources are quite scarce and my German isn't good enough to read German language sources
J.S any help ?
As you know, my source is very brief and superficial. However it does state that the Russian brigades were initially come across by the cavalry sent out ahead by Francois. This is an aspect of the war that I am also very interested in. Do we have any German members who could fill us in on the details of Stalluponen?
Not sure (corporate IT wont let me translate it) if this is of any use and definitely appears to have more information embedded in it
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gefecht_bei_Stallup%C3%B6nen
27 Inf Div seem to the Russian opposition and taken in the Flank by Grenadier Regt Nr 3. Need to get home and look at this.
German 1st division defends advanced position. Attacked by three Russian divisions (25 and 27/III corps and 29/XX corps). Positions hold, order to retreat is ignored. Commander of German 2nd division sends reinforcements (four battalions) on own initiative. These arrive late in the afternoon, and attack the flank of the Russians. At the same time the regt. 3 does a counterattack. This leads to panic and a retreat of the Russians.
It might have been on this Forum, or the BKC one, but someone did recommend an excellent book on the WWI Eastern Front, but I can't for the life of me remember any details. It might be worth asking around as this may give you all the info you need and more.
Outstanding thank you.
So the Picture shows the Initial position of 1st Division in an arc to the East of Stalluponen with the three Blue arrows, hopefully, indicating the attack by the 3 Russian Divisions (that bit doesn't seem to get much mention in any of the English language accounts).
The dotted red oval at the Rail junction isn't clear of how much of 2nd Division and I am not sure if the two lines moving out from it are the two separate brigades with the one going into the flank being the 4 battalions in the translation.
Slightly bigger scenario than I first thought. What can you tell me about the background. Interested in what the landwehr and the Cavalry were upto ?
Quote from: Steve J on 21 January 2014, 11:03:36 AM
It might have been on this Forum, or the BKC one, but someone did recommend an excellent book on the WWI Eastern Front, but I can't for the life of me remember any details. It might be worth asking around as this may give you all the info you need and more.
I think it was the Norman Stone one which I have. It doesn't have any tactical details regarding the enagements around Stalluponen
Quote from: Si Tyler on 21 January 2014, 11:04:30 AM
Interested in what the landwehr and the Cavalry were upto ?
The corps is deployed on a wide front: 2. ID at Goldap/Tollmingkehmen, 1. ID at Stallupönen, 1. Cavalry-Division at Pillkallen and 2. Landwehr-Brigade at Tilsit. So these are out of the picture in this engagement.
More here (http://www.tannenberg1914.de/2_gumb/stallup.htm) but all in German. Has some interesting (animated) maps and also some OOB's though (look under Armeeen/Schematen).
Another good pointer. The more I read about Stalluponen the more interesting it becomes. Most English sources treat it as an impetuous attack by Francois and disregard the Russian attack which had the potential to defeat I Korps in detail in its advanced position. Someone else sent me a link to Tannenberg: Clash of Empires which has a large section on the Stalluponen action which I am avidly reading. Your link is good and I can make sort of sense of the narrative (now that I have seen one in English).
The supporting tabs are very useful as well which means I will need to buy more Russians ;) which will keep Leon happy, but not sufficient to allow him to retire.
A mate of mine suggested Solzhenitsyn's 'August 1914' for a bit of atmosphere of the whole Tannenberg campaign.
It's good, but it's not light reading. I read "August 1914" immediately after reading "War and Peace".
That's when the troubles started.
Would certainly recommend Tannenberg Clash of Empires for detail.
Also agree that Solzhenitsyn gives good atmospheric background bus i not light reading; haven't re-read it in years :(
If you need any German text (not books ;) translating, drop me a pm
Thanks for the offers of help and suggestions. Currently trying to source a reasonable scale map to annotate the actions on. The link at the top shows the action towards the later stages once the 5km gap had opened up so want to try and find the starting positions. Something from the Russian POV would also be useful. So might try August 1914, my eyeballs could do with a good bleed.