I watched the Rough Riders on Sky True Movies last night, and was transported back to some very enjoyable battles in 15mm about 20 years ago.
I think they were Freikorps figures - now QRF - and I remember painting dirty blue shirts, brown trousers and yellow facings, plus US regulars and Spanish.
It was a lot of fun as it pitched two modern armies against each other in jungle settings, and of course San Juan.
Would this work in 10mm? Any figures in ACW/Colonial that can immediately be scrounged ? BW18 looks a cert for the Rough Riders.
That Chinese Gun boat will sail again - it might last longer than the Maine. The demise of this fine warship, is still mystery - but when did that get in the way of a good game.
Rules? We used a modified Johnny Reb by GDW, but I am sure the forum can suggest better have emerged since 1990 !
Comments? Suggestions ?
Principles of War had two good lists for this period, and some nice extra rules such as US troops were not using smokeless powder and the buffolo soldiers had the highest morale!
Thanks for that - the modification for smokeless and higher moral are indeed nice touches. I remember tweaking the Rough Riders morale listing as they were "green troops" but very highly motivated.
As you say Black Jack Pershing's buffalo soldiers were the most experienced soldiers in the US force.
The Spanish also fought well. It was as if Cuba was the last jewel in Spain's crown. their war against insurgents is comparable to the Brits against the Boers- the key difference is that Cuba is in Uncle Sam's back year.
It can be argued that without the ACW to internalise things, the USA would have invaded/purchased Cuba and made it into several slave states.
Has anyone gamed it in 10mm?
Apart from both wars being almost contemporary, there is very little comparison between the events in Cuba and the Boer war. The principle difference being that the Spanish were not sitting on the world's largest Gold and Diamond fields.
As for figures, I'd suggest mixing and matching figures from the 19th century, colonial and WWI ranges.
It really depends at what scale you want to play with regard to the rules. For colonial conflicts, I have always liked Soldiers of the Queen, but I'm not sure if they are still in print.
Quote from: fateeore on 21 January 2014, 01:04:01 PM
Apart from both wars being almost contemporary, there is very little comparison between the events in Cuba and the Boer war. The principle difference being that the Spanish were not sitting on the world's largest Gold and Diamond fields.
The received historical consensus of military historians would disagree with you.
Remember I am referring to the Spanish war against the rebels- not the subsequent Spanish American war The interesting points of comparison with the SBW can be listed as follows:
* Both sides used concentration camps to separate guerrillas from supporters
* Both countries cordoned off the countryside to prevent movement.
* The Spanish deployed large contingents of Calvary - and the Brits reconstructed their forces to provide more "Horse"
* The Brits did force the Boers to surrender, but lost the peace. By 1887, Weyler had contained the revolt - indeed if he had been as ruthless as the Brits
he might have won the war. Like the Brits, the Spanish had gained the initiative.
* There was no precious metals in Cuba, but when you read the Spanish primary sources of the time you quickly grasp that Cuba was of immense psychological
importance. It is the one issue that all Spanish politicians agree on. Hence the Spanish army stood firm and fought very bravely. The honour of Spain was at stake. That was worth more than gold.
* What tempered Weyler in his ability to carry out war to the uttermost in Cuba was a problem that Brits did not have to deal with in South Africa. The proximity of the United States. The Junta had their headquarters in New York and American public opinion was a key factor - "yellow journalism " By the time Emily Hobson raised the issue of the harsh conditions employed against the Boers it was too late. By
comparison the Cubans had Hearst and Pultizer. (no prizes for guessing his occupation!). A lot of military lecturers use these as classical examples of propaganda. "You furnish the pictures- I'll furnish the war" William Randolph Hearst to Frederic Remington. I once used that strap line for slides show/lecture in the days before Data projection.
It is interesting to compare the SBW which ended in 1902 with the Irish War of Independence some 17 years later. The key reason why the Brits allowed the Irish to leave the United Kingdom and establish an autonomous Irish Free State was primarily the public outcry against the colonial tactics of the Black and Tans. Its fine in a far flung corner of the empire to murder a few natives- not cricket when the victims are de jury British citizens - if not subjects.
You are welcome to your agenda.
btw, while looking for something else I happened across a set of rules for the specific period, http://www.thevirtualarmchairgeneral.com/079-rules.html
Quote from: fateeore on 21 January 2014, 05:59:25 PM
You are welcome to your agenda.
No agenda - just my period/specialisation of academic study. The impact of the free press and increasing demand for newspapers that would in turn shape public opinion was a major force in how late 19th century western armies fought wars. Interestingly Churchill saw "action" in Cuba as a war correspondent and as is well known, used the media to promote his "brand" via his popular exploits in the Second Boer War. Cuba and South Africa offers an interesting comparison case study of early anti insurgent style operations against a sophisticated guerrilla. As opposed to brave but primitive natives with bows arrows and spears.
Interestingly Peter Pig devised a "bigger picture" world opinion dice roll for their very popular AK47 republic game.
Thanks for the link. I play BKC in my post WW2 games and I favour that realistic touch that avoids the whole scale carnage of earlier wargame rules.
Hello Sunray
Quote from: Sunray on 20 January 2014, 05:09:09 PM
That Chinese Gun boat will sail again
Oh Chinese Gun boat, thy name is ubiquitous!!Mine is currently a French gunboat in 1930s Indochina :D :D!!
Don't forget the always-handy SCW Anadulsian militia for Spanish or Insurrectionists, Boers and Naval Brigade may also come in handy. RJW Japanese infantry might also be useful. Zulu war pith helmeted types could be pressganged as Spaniards too
Rules, have a look at http://www.colonialwargaming.co.uk/Rules_Models/Rules/Downloads/When%20Empires%20Clash%20-%20Colonial%20v1.pdf (http://www.colonialwargaming.co.uk/Rules_Models/Rules/Downloads/When%20Empires%20Clash%20-%20Colonial%20v1.pdf), http://chuckgame.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/this-week-wargame-wednesdays-presents.html (http://chuckgame.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/this-week-wargame-wednesdays-presents.html), http://ricks-warmaster.com/ColonialWarmasterRules.pdf (http://ricks-warmaster.com/ColonialWarmasterRules.pdf). Also Belle Epoque (http://regles.wargames.monsite-orange.fr/BelleEpoque.pdf (http://regles.wargames.monsite-orange.fr/BelleEpoque.pdf)) has a Spanish American variant http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/uploads/7/0/8/1/7081303/santiago.doc (http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/uploads/7/0/8/1/7081303/santiago.doc).
Let us know how it all goes.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Yes Vic- that old Zhong Shan kit keeps on finding wars - and shores to bombard.
Thanks for the useful links and ideas. At some stage it might be useful to list the codes that can be pressed into other wars. At 10mm a good paint job can achieve much.
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 22 January 2014, 02:35:29 AM
. Zulu war pith helmeted types could be pressganged as Spaniards too
yes! The John Jacob Astor battery were in "pith" helmets