Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 10:43:29 AM

Title: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 10:43:29 AM
After discussing with friends about making bulk scenery ie walls , bunkers etc for games we play we have decided after looking online to make our own plastic mould vacuuming machine...doesnt look too hard

So hopefully in a couple of months we shall either have some scenery or we have burnt the house down.


Should be interesting though
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 11:29:10 AM
 8)

Which machine you gonna use Steve?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Techno on 16 January 2014, 11:32:19 AM
Don't go and electrocute yourself Steve !
Hope it works though. :) :-bd

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 11:37:54 AM
Its going to be a homemade machine

Nothing fancy just a box with a vacuum cleaner attached underneath master on top which the heated plastic goes onto . Probably put the plastic in some dort of hinged frame so it always fits over the master without too much handling of hot plastic
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 12:23:22 PM
You MUST post phortos of that!!! ;)
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 16 January 2014, 12:41:02 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 11:37:54 AM
Nothing fancy just a box with a vacuum cleaner attached underneath master on top which the heated plastic goes onto . Probably put the plastic in some dort of hinged frame so it always fits over the master without too much handling of hot plastic

Again I am amazed at the inventiveness if not the sanity of forum members.

What sort of thing are you going to try and make?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 12:46:16 PM
Just bunkers and sandbag emplacements etc...maybe a house :o

Maybe some terrain features...like hills etc but we shall start small
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: sebigboss79 on 16 January 2014, 04:14:26 PM
Count me as an interested external party. One can never have enough bunkers, sandbag emplacements or ruins...
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 04:17:04 PM
We shall see what happens
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 04:18:38 PM
Please video it: could be worth £250 :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 04:27:09 PM
Quote from: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 04:18:38 PM
Please video it: could be worth £250 :D

Are you sure you want a video of me burning myself and the house down?...Silly question really..why 250?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 04:27:09 PM
why 250?
You've been framed...

Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 04:27:09 PM
Are you sure you want a video of me burning myself and the house down?...Silly question really

;D ;D ;D

Assuming you and your nearest and dearest were safe ;)
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 04:37:59 PM
Never watched the programme
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 04:39:03 PM
You haven't missed much
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: petercooman on 16 January 2014, 05:36:53 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 10:43:29 AM
we have decided after looking online to make our own plastic mould vacuuming machine...doesnt look too hard


Must be a big vacuum cleaner if it can suck up moulds  :P :P

Yup, that's my coat over there, the white one with the long sleeves.
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Techno on 16 January 2014, 05:39:31 PM
Quote from: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 04:18:38 PM
Please video it: could be worth £250 :D

Yes....The more it appears you've hurt yourself....The more likely they are to show it !
And as Gareth says.....You haven't missed much at all.

And before anybody says anything.....A lot of the time......It's one of those shows when you're flicking thro' the channels when you see some complete Muppet doing something completely blanking stupid.....And you simply HAVE to watch for a minute or two, to see which part of the idiot's going to get crunched.

Then you continue flicking thro' the channels.......That's my excuse anyway. :P

Cheers - Phil

Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 05:45:33 PM
Quote from: petercooman on 16 January 2014, 05:36:53 PM
Must be a big vacuum cleaner if it can suck up moulds  :P :P

Yup, that's my coat over there, the white one with the long sleeves.

Just make sure you get the buckles nice and tight at the back
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 06:14:10 PM
Quote from: Techno on 16 January 2014, 05:39:31 PM
And you simply HAVE to watch for a minute or two, to see which part of the idiot's going to get crunched.


Yes...when they're about to destroy the house with a home-made vacuum mold for example :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Techno on 16 January 2014, 07:33:11 PM
 =O =O =O =O =O
Sounds about right to me !!
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fateeore on 16 January 2014, 07:57:51 PM
For reason I am reminded of the boy at school who took a bet that he would not put a certain appendage in the hose of a Henry. It ended with him screaming 'turn it off. turn it off'...
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 08:06:20 PM
Quote from: fateeore on 16 January 2014, 07:57:51 PM
For reason I am reminded of the boy at school who took a bet that he would not put a certain appendage in the hose of a Henry. It ended with him screaming 'turn it off. turn it off'...

Pictures or it didn't happen...no...wait... :-& :-& :-&
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 16 January 2014, 08:11:29 PM
To be serious, how will you get a good seal?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 08:12:20 PM
Quote from: fsn on 16 January 2014, 08:11:29 PM
To be serious, how will you get a good seal?

The zoo :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 16 January 2014, 08:13:31 PM
I repeat - to be serious.
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Leon on 16 January 2014, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: fsn on 16 January 2014, 08:11:29 PM
To be serious, how will you get a good seal?

Quote from: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 08:12:20 PM
The zoo :D

Quote from: fsn on 16 January 2014, 08:13:31 PM
I repeat - to be serious.

Come on Gareth, everyone knows you only get bad seals in the zoo.   =)  You've got to go to the North Atlantic for a good one... :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 08:16:58 PM
Well from what I have seen on you tube you place the warm plastic sheet on the master, the vacuum cleaner sucks from underneath at the same time, the board the master rests on is full of holes so the sucking out of air is even across the plastic

It was very hard to write that without making it sound rude or full of innuendo
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 08:18:38 PM
Quote from: Leon on 16 January 2014, 08:16:08 PM
Come on Gareth, everyone knows you only get bad seals in the zoo.   =)  You've got to go to the North Atlantic for a good one... :D

;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 08:16:58 PM

It was very hard to write that without making it sound rude or full of innuendo

Doesn't matter Steve; this lot could find innuendo ANYWHERE :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Techno on 16 January 2014, 09:00:31 PM
Quote from: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 08:18:38 PM
;D ;D ;D
Doesn't matter Steve; this lot could find innuendo ANYWHERE :D

What do you mean "This lot" ?
I trust you're not excluding yourself Gareth ?  :P ;) ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: Techno on 16 January 2014, 09:00:31 PM
What do you mean "This lot" ?
I trust you're not excluding yourself Gareth ?  :P ;) ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.

US lot :P :P :P
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 16 January 2014, 09:21:20 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 08:16:58 PM
Well from what I have seen on you tube you place the warm plastic sheet on the master, the vacuum cleaner sucks from underneath at the same time, the board the master rests on is full of holes so the sucking out of air is even across the plastic

Sorry if I'm being dense, but surely the board must be in a bag or something attached to the vacuum cleaner, or you wouldn't get any suck through your holes?

[You're right, everything in this thread screams "that what's she said".]
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 09:25:06 PM
yes sorry the unit is sealed with the tube of the vacuum attached to it
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Orcs on 16 January 2014, 09:45:58 PM
Just to bring this thread down to the normal level

Q= "What do you call a 70 year old woman who can suck an orange through a hosepipe"

A= "Darling"

I'll get my coat - the one with the buckles at the back. :)
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 16 January 2014, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 09:25:06 PM
yes sorry the unit is sealed with the tube of the vacuum attached to it

Ah! Now it makes sense.

Sorry, another question. (I have been endowed with an inquisitive mind. Some see it as a gift, to others it's just like a monkey's.)

Presumably the holey board is the key. If the holes are too big then you'll get dimples in your hills, too small and the plastic may cool before you've got sufficient shape. Does the configuration of the board matter that much or am I over-analysing?

 
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 09:59:19 PM
I dont know mate...I think its going to be a bit of trial and error but people seem to use a peg board with a wire mesh over the top

This sort of board 

(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/SteveW_04/Pegboard.jpg) (http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SteveW_04/media/Pegboard.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 16 January 2014, 10:03:31 PM
Good luck with it. I'm a great one for the theory and the thinking, but the practical side of it just makes me tired.

I also have a short attention span that means I
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 10:04:25 PM
I do something simil....Oh look a rabbit
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 10:06:21 PM
How do you heat the plastic?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 10:09:06 PM

Either in the oven or the way I am thinking is to have the plastic held in a wooden frame which is hinged to the box which will flip to hover over a single or double electric ring
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 10:21:28 PM
This is my CAD design for it

(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/SteveW_04/cleaner.jpg) (http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SteveW_04/media/cleaner.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 10:23:37 PM
Steve, whilst I admire your technical and engineering know-how; wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and safer to either buy them or ask your better half to sculpt them???
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 16 January 2014, 10:44:33 PM
No, no, no! Fenton is to be applauded for his ingenuity.

A most diverting exercise. How do you stop the plastic sticking to the master? Does the master need to let air through? Would the vacuum cleaner be too strong and need to be choked somehow?  How do you ensure an even heat over the plastic? How do you know when the plastic is at the right temperature?  What is the optimum size and pattern of the holes? Will the finished product be robust enough?

So many questions, so much to experiment with! I envy you your project, Sir!
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 10:52:00 PM
Quote from: fsn on 16 January 2014, 10:44:33 PM
No, no, no! Fenton is to be applauded for his ingenuity.


Without question...=D>
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 11:05:03 PM
welll I am going to ask her to do the masters
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 16 January 2014, 11:08:39 PM
Her sculpts are amazing ;)
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Orcs on 16 January 2014, 11:38:19 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 16 January 2014, 11:05:03 PM
welll I am going to ask her to do the masters

Instead of waasting all your precious gaming/painting time  designing and making this device , why not get Mrs F to make you all the terrain you need.  I am sure that she has nothing more urgent to do than make her man 150 trenches etc. :-\

And anyway as man of the house she should obey you, and do your bidding  !!!!   ;D ;D

After mentoning this too her I am sure you will be able to walk without a limp after a couple of days. And sleeping on the sofa can be fun !
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 17 January 2014, 12:33:18 AM
You know most butchers have vacuum sealing devices, perhaps you should borrow one?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fateeore on 17 January 2014, 12:42:43 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 17 January 2014, 12:33:18 AM
You know most butchers have vacuum sealing devices, perhaps you should borrow one?

What does he need a butcher for?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 17 January 2014, 12:54:02 AM
Well, sausages, steaks, chops, and all round meaty goodness.
And if you don't want to eat your butcher, you can always use them as a doorstop!
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fateeore on 17 January 2014, 12:57:31 AM
Thank you for the explanation.

I feared it would be something odd.
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Fenton on 17 January 2014, 10:30:40 AM
All the butchers near me have closed down due to a massive Tesco's and Sainsburys nearby
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 17 January 2014, 12:25:05 PM
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 16 January 2014, 11:38:19 PM
And anyway as man of the house she should obey you, and do your bidding  !!!! 

And people think I'm crazy.
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 17 January 2014, 12:34:46 PM
Quote from: fsn on 17 January 2014, 12:25:05 PM
And people think I'm crazy.

You are...there isn't a finite amount of madness in the world. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Ithoriel on 17 January 2014, 02:44:06 PM
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein


Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 17 January 2014, 02:45:50 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 17 January 2014, 02:44:06 PM
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein


What does he know???

:O) 8-} <:-P
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Techno on 17 January 2014, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 17 January 2014, 10:30:40 AM
All the butchers near me have closed down due to a massive Tesco's and Sainsburys nearby

I am NOT massive !!!.....Oh, sorry.... TESCO'S. :D
I was wondering what on Earth I had to do with Sainsbury's.....They don't sell wee soldiers now, do they ?

Cheers - Phil (Obviously, currently orbiting a different planet at the moment !)
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Hertsblue on 17 January 2014, 11:18:18 PM
Quote from: Techno on 17 January 2014, 04:39:03 PM
I am NOT massive !!!.....Oh, sorry.... TESCO'S. :D
I was wondering what on Earth I had to do with Sainsbury's.....They don't sell wee soldiers now, do they ?

Cheers - Phil (Obviously, currently orbiting a different planet at the moment !)


Are you geostationary?  :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 18 January 2014, 08:33:37 AM
Strangely enough as a man without a life and unable to get out much, I spend quite a bit of time cogitating. I know nothing about vacuum moulding, but I wonder if you raise the master a little above the holey board, say on tiny legs, it would improve air flow and so make for a better product?


Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Techno on 18 January 2014, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 17 January 2014, 11:18:18 PM
Are you geostationary?  :D

I think the word is eccentric, Ray. :D
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Nouseforausername on 18 January 2014, 11:45:58 AM
Gosh. this sounds like quite a project (sorry for coming late to the party!)

My secondary school became a 'tech status' school a couple of years before we left, which meant we got a load of gadgets that the teachers had no idea how to use (see interactive whiteboard for a full explanation.) One of the useful gadgets that we had was a plastic vacuum machine, which was used in tech class to make moulds of things (duh.) It was quite a cool machine. From what I remember, the sheet of heated plastic was lowered from above (if you swing it over from the side it may billow out from air resisitance.) The 'board that the air was sucked through was little more than a wire mesh, which provided enough airflow to pull on the plastic and get a tight form around the object you were moulding.

I always looked at it and thought how useful it would be to create some 'rocky outcrops' or even mountains by just grabbing a load of stones and arranging them in a pile before vacuuming the plastic over the top. Lightweight, easy to handle and paint, and probably very stisfying results once painted up and flocked! (sadly I never got round to asking about the use of it for a few quid. dayum!)

Good luck with the project! I would love to see the results!

Nouseforaname
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Orcs on 18 January 2014, 08:30:57 PM
Quote from: fsn on 17 January 2014, 12:25:05 PM
And people think I'm crazy.

I'm not crazy - My mother had me tested !   I just live on a different planet. :D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: Last Hussar on 18 January 2014, 08:41:43 PM
Isn't this the sort of story that is prefaced by "Hold my beer and watch this..."?
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: get2grips on 18 January 2014, 08:47:04 PM
Quote from: Last Hussar on 18 January 2014, 08:41:43 PM
Isn't this the sort of story that is prefaced by "Hold my beer and watch this..."?

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Plastic vacuum models
Post by: fsn on 18 January 2014, 08:57:51 PM
Quote from: Nouseforausername on 18 January 2014, 11:45:58 AM
From what I remember, the sheet of heated plastic was lowered from above (if you swing it over from the side it may billow out from air resisitance.)

I wondered about pivoting about a corner before pressing down. Obviously that would muck about with the relationship between the heat source and the master - the heat source would have to be higher, but would get away from the folding motion.

:-\      

Have you not finished it yet Mr Fenton? Where are the pictures?