Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Rules => Topic started by: civvycivvy on 22 December 2013, 09:20:58 AM

Title: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: civvycivvy on 22 December 2013, 09:20:58 AM
I've enjoyed a couple of games of Black Powder SYW recently, played in 15mm. They wet my appetite so much, that I am now in the throes of painting the Pendraken Prussians and Austrians. But, not having a set of rules yet (they're on order), can anyone advise me on base sizes and figure ratios etc for the Black Powder Rules?
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 22 December 2013, 11:08:02 AM
The rules do contain suggestions,  but we successfully use 6mm on 60x30 (2 base per unit), 6mm on 42x20(3 bases per unit), and 20mm on 40x40mm(I think). So long as all units are on the same frontage on both sides it really doesn't matter. One thing we do need to do is mark up the units into their formations. (Brigade/division).

ianS
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Zippee on 22 December 2013, 11:13:03 AM
There really aren't any very hard and fast rulings for base sizes in BP - units are small, medium or large depending on number of bases.

FWIW I went with 20mm square bases with 4 infantry or 2 cavalry; and a gun on a 40mm square - for skirmishers I put 4 figures on a 40mm x 20mm base (rather than have a load of singles). My units tend to be 4, 6 or 8 bases (I also use the same figures for Maurice and other rules where I assume 2 bases become one for a 40mm BW) You can see them on my Flickr page below

I then play BP in cm instead of inches - seems to work fine but then BP is pretty flexible and a bit woolly so really just go with what looks right  :D

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Fenton on 22 December 2013, 11:44:15 AM
We play HC in 6mm and use 40x40 as a small unit do 80x40 for a standard unit  I have never played BP but I am presuming its the same 
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 22 December 2013, 11:54:12 AM
I use cm scale too.
My awi are on 120x30mm, fpw (based for V&B ruleset) are on 75mm or 37.5mm frontage.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Luddite on 22 December 2013, 12:46:37 PM
Quote from: Zippee on 22 December 2013, 11:13:03 AM
There really aren't any very hard and fast rulings for base sizes in BP - units are small, medium or large depending on number of bases.

Yep.

Anything goes really.  We use 60,30mm for 10mm figures and it looks good and works well.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Glorfindel on 22 December 2013, 05:09:56 PM
We have only ever played BP in 6mm, using Baccus 60 x 30mm bases and simply converting inches to cm.   Works a treat.

Some pics from a game :

http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/library/Great%20Northern%20War/Great%20Northern%20War%20Big%20Game?sort=2&page=0#/user/glorfindel-666/library/Great%20Northern%20War/Great%20Northern%20War%20Big%20Game?sort=2&page=1&_suid=1387732115847002735489578855016 (http://s761.photobucket.com/user/glorfindel-666/library/Great%20Northern%20War/Great%20Northern%20War%20Big%20Game?sort=2&page=0#/user/glorfindel-666/library/Great%20Northern%20War/Great%20Northern%20War%20Big%20Game?sort=2&page=1&_suid=1387732115847002735489578855016)

Cheers,


Phil
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Leman on 22 December 2013, 05:11:40 PM
Here's a Black Powder game in progress in 10mm using Pendraken figures. Bases are: Inf - 25x25mm, cavalry - 30x30mm, Art - 30x40mm. I have actually reduced the frontages of the cavalry and artillery to 25mm since this photo was taken. This was an extremely enjoyable play through of the game in the Black Powder C18th extension book.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20SYW/IMG_0385-1_zps4ec7b122.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: civvycivvy on 23 December 2013, 10:11:11 AM
Wow, thanks for the info everyone. Some food for thought there. Some basing to do over the Christmas period then.  :)
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Zippee on 23 December 2013, 10:29:05 AM
Nice picture DP but are you sure those guns are on 30mm x 40mm - looks a whole lot more like 30mm x 60mm to me!  :-\
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Leon on 23 December 2013, 10:56:36 AM
Nice pic there DP!
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: mollinary on 23 December 2013, 11:54:10 AM
Really nice stuff, DP!  :-bd

Mollinary
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Leman on 23 December 2013, 03:48:02 PM
Yes, they were on 30x60mm. I've made them more flexible by rebasing and putting the gabions on individual bases. Although I have played a lot of Maurice with these figures I am plugging down the club for another Black Powder outing.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Zippee on 23 December 2013, 03:54:52 PM
 :D that makes sense - I did look hard for the joint line between gabions and guns  8)

Maurice is fun but sometimes you just want something . . . a bit. . . grander. . .in scope :-\ something like that anyway  :o
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: GordonY on 23 December 2013, 03:57:52 PM
that piccie may yet persuade me to dip my toe into SYW
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Techno on 23 December 2013, 04:08:54 PM
Those are extremely nice DP...
Have we congratulated you on becoming a Colonel yet ?
Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: fred. on 23 December 2013, 06:04:26 PM
That battle looks really good - the 6mm houses seem to work well for this era.

We got a bit fed up of Maurice - but might try BP as one of my mates has it and we haven't used it to any degree (and HC is not bad) - and I have painted up loads of WSS figures.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Leman on 24 December 2013, 09:46:20 PM
Didn't realise I'd become a colonel. Whoopee! That will help the pension.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 24 December 2013, 09:50:52 PM
Well done DP!  8)
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Leman on 24 December 2013, 09:57:34 PM
Cheers Lemmey. 1866 and 1914 Austrians are now coming along nicely. Hopefully more photos soon.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: DanJ on 01 January 2014, 03:54:31 PM
I've played a few SYW games using BP, and apart from the rules I'd recommend getting the 'Last Argument of Kings' BP supplement which is all SYW.

Naturally I've used Pendraken figures and have basically halved the base sizes, a stand being 20x20mm with 6 stands to a standard infantry battalion, each stand has 6 infantry figures except the command stand which has an officer, a drummer and 2 standard bearers, the result is 34 figures to a battalion standing shoulder to shoulder.  Cavalry bases are somewhat larger 25x25mm with 2 figures on each.  After a couple of trials I realised 6 20x20  or 25x25  bases wasn't easy to move around so I've standardised on 2 20x20 bases and 2 20x40 bases, which makes life easier when moving things around.

Battalion guns go on 20x20 bases, most other artillery on 25x25 bases and siege artillery on 40x40, Commanders go on round stands 25 or 30mm diameter depending on rank.

The only rule changes I've made is to use cm instead of inches and reduce the effect of battalion guns which seemed too powerful incidentaly I ended up using 6mm Bacus models for my battalion guns as the Pendraken ones looked to big but make fine standard pieces and the heavy artillery models are superb.

The individual figures are used to record first volley and casualties.

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/SYW_Fr1.jpg)

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/SYW_Fr2.jpg)

(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/SYW_Fr3.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Techno on 01 January 2014, 07:58:45 PM
Nice stuff again Dan.
Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 01 January 2014, 09:14:28 PM
Great stuff Dan!  8)
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Leman on 02 January 2014, 11:44:34 AM
Nice to see some French units. You seem to be making a pretty good start there with SYW.
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Last Hussar on 02 January 2014, 02:10:01 PM
cm v inches

It depends on how much time, space and money you have.

Poor man's option (ie mine) - read inches as cm, as suggested above.  Of course BP does quote bases in cm, so you need a bit of maths - the 6 man frontage on 45mm given in the rules as a alternate converts down to almost exactly 20mm, so 6x 20mm square bases are fine.

IF you have the resources KEEP the measurements in the book.  Still 20mm bases, but put 4-6 10mm on, instead of 1 28mm- that makes units frontage of 36, 4 ranks deep-Now THAT'S the was to do 18th Century!
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 02 January 2014, 02:39:13 PM
There are loads of resources for BP on the yahoo group, and also Rick Prestly's web site.

In 6 and 10mm use the measurements in cm, and we usually use 2/3rds distance for BP but not HC for club games.

IanS
Title: Re: Black Powder in 10mm
Post by: DanJ on 02 January 2014, 06:24:03 PM
QuoteNice to see some French units. You seem to be making a pretty good start there with SYW.

Actually the French and Prussians are finished, I'm tempted to use French for Austrians because of the white uniforms and having a rest from 7YW with other projects at the moment but quite fancy some British next.

The French currently are

15 Battalions of Line Infantry
3 Battalions of Grenadiers
1 Battalion Light Infantry
3 Regiments Heavy cavalry
1 Regiment Hussars
1 Regiment Dragoons
17 Battalion Guns (I got carried away)
6 Foot Artillery
1 Heavy Siege artillery
1 General and 5 Officer stands

The Prussians have

10 Battalions of Line Infantry
2 Battalions of Grenadiers
1 Battalion Jaegers
3 Regiments Heavy cavalry
1 Regiment Curassiers
1 Regiment Dragoons
8 Battalion Guns
4 Foot Artillery
1 Heavy Siege artillery
1 General and 4 Officer stands