A quick question for the sculptors out there. I added a blade to the broom shaft of this beggar woman. It's rather thin and quite flexible. It doesn't have a sold core.
Presumably this is just the nature of thin, unsupported greenstuff, but I just wanted to check whether there could be other reasons: poor mixing; too much of one colour; old greenstuff.
(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l602/Meirion_Hopkins/10mm%20Minis/Work%20in%20progress/41F9A413-9B8B-4C0A-9947-B58A2F2B06B0-287-000000178627C8ED_zps7e4ea65b.jpg)
Cheers!
Meirion
No idea on the "floppiness" of the green stuff though I've had the same thing happen in times gone by so interested in an answer from those who know.
Much more important - nice conversion, I like it a lot.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 21 December 2013, 05:59:51 PM
Much more important - nice conversion, I like it a lot.
Thanks, here's the rear view:
(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l602/Meirion_Hopkins/10mm%20Minis/Work%20in%20progress/A814C6BB-836E-4A5D-811F-D58E0F74F9E2-287-0000001791D29794_zps112e2307.jpg)
If it's quite thin it can be flexible, although sometimes it's because the mix wasn't quite right and it hasn't cured off properly. I'm sure Techno will have some better advice though, as he's a bit of a putty master!
8)
OK chaps...
Green stuff has a certain 'flexibility'.....EVEN when you give it a core of metal.
From the 'wire' that I use myself...... At 'our scale', we're talking about something a fair bit less than half a mm in diameter for the core.
Green stuff never goes anything like as stiff as Milliput.
That's great when (for example) I need to slightly reposition an arm....
If I'd used Milliput....The arm would almost certainly shatter....and I'd have to probably have to re-make the arm.
A green stuff arm can be 'bent' without this problem.
The worst that can happen is that the GS tears slightly....and just needs a bit of filling.
An unsupported bit of GS will ALWAYS be 'floppy'.....especially at our scale.
Hope that helps.
Cheers - Phil.
One way to cure this is to harden it with superglue. I use a por of brush on loctite, and you can easily wipe that littmle brush over there and make it solid. Wipe off the excess glue first though, or it will look like a mace ;D
Quote from: Techno on 21 December 2013, 07:16:33 PM
OK chaps...
Green stuff has a certain 'flexibility'.....EVEN when you give it a core of metal.
From the 'wire' that I use myself...... At 'our scale', we're talking about something a fair bit less than half a mm in diameter for the core.
Green stuff never goes anything like as stiff as Milliput.
That's great when (for example) I need to slightly reposition an arm....
If I'd used Milliput....The arm would almost certainly shatter....and I'd have to probably have to re-make the arm.
A green stuff arm can be 'bent' without this problem.
The worst that can happen is that the GS tears slightly....and just needs a bit of filling.
An unsupported bit of GS will ALWAYS be 'floppy'.....especially at our scale.
Hope that helps.
Cheers - Phil.
Thanks Phil.
I thought that was probably the case, but always best to ask the experts ;)
Cheers!
Meirion
Quote from: petercooman on 21 December 2013, 07:53:56 PM
One way to cure this is to harden it with superglue. I use a por of brush on loctite, and you can easily wipe that littmle brush over there and make it solid. Wipe off the excess glue first though, or it will look like a mace ;D
Cool, might try that :-bd
Cheers,
Meirion
Giving it a coating of superglue is fine, as long as it's not going to be put in a vulcanizing 'press'.
If there's too much of the glue, it can do unexpected things..... if you're unlucky.
To thicken up a 'flat' sculpt once, I super-glued an extra layer of Milliput on the back....and then neatened all the edges. (Good job..thought I ;))
When it was pressed, it apparently 'exploded' in the mould when the super-glue got heated and expanded. :o :o :o :o
Hey Ho ! ;)
Cheers - Phil
Yep, superglue can do all kinds of fun stuff in the mould press!
Quote from: Techno on 21 December 2013, 10:12:08 PM
Giving it a coating of superglue is fine, as long as it's not going to be put in a vulcanizing 'press'.
If there's too much of the glue, it can do unexpected things..... if you're unlucky.
To thicken up a 'flat' sculpt once, I super-glued an extra layer of Milliput on the back....and then neatened all the edges. (Good job..thought I ;))
When it was pressed, it apparently 'exploded' in the mould when the super-glue got heated and expanded. :o :o :o :o
Hey Ho ! ;)
Cheers - Phil
X_X
Quote from: Leon on 21 December 2013, 10:15:31 PM
Yep, superglue can do all kinds of fun stuff in the mould press!
Sounds like putting a sealed glass bottle in a microwave :d
The odd times I DO have to use it for a model that's going into a mould....I try and use almost microscopic amounts.....(I put a drop of ultra thin s/g on an old piece of plasticard, then dip the end of a pin or dental probe into that, then use THAT to transfer the glue to the appropriate place on the figure)......and as Peter says above....If there's any excess...Get rid of it !! ;)
Cheers - Phil
interesting discussion.
I have been using milliput for filling holes in vehicles and some add on bits - had it for years as I don't do major things. From the discussion I take it that there is no 'best' between GS and milliput? Seems to be about what you want to do with it?
One thing I find with milliput is that using a very small aount can be hard - getting it to it to say put and not fall off or stick to the thing I am using to apply it can be a pain. what is GS like to work with for small amounts?
Hi Marshall.
Yes... To a great extent it depends on what you want to do with the putty.
They both have pros and cons.....But normally I'd say that I'd almost always prefer g/s over M/P.
Small bits of M/P are extremely difficult to get to stick to anything.
I'll come back a bit later and try and write something coherent.....What I've just deleted was a complete load of gibberish !! ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Phil
thanks. will probably invest in some green stuff and use the two putties as appropriate - anything more on the subject woudl be much appreciated
have a great Christmas
Steve
Hi Steve. :)
Right.... The following is purely from my own experience....But I think it'll be relevant....I believe (hope) that all of my colleagues that spend most of their days 'pushing putty' around would agree.
Milliput..
A very useful putty for what I'd call 'straight line' work.
It tends to set 'rock hard', so can't be 'tweaked' by bending, because it tends to shatter...and then you'd have to re-make whatever you'd just 'spoiled'.
It can be a real s*d to try and stick to anything (but only if you're using really miniscule amounts.)......I've used fairly copious amounts to mend things that have got nothing to do with our hobby....Like a fine crack in a toilet cistern.....(True !!...Honestly !!)
I find it a very 'messy' putty to work with...But once dry, it's wonderful if you need to scrape or sand things down to a 'sharp' shape....eg, a sword in whatever scale.
Green Stuff (I find) is FAR more versatile (once you've got used to it ;))......
About the only thing you MIGHT find a problem with is doing the aforementioned 'straight line work'.
You won't get as sharp edges. unless you're a sad g*t like me who has super-ultra-fine glass/sand paper......But I still wouldn't trust it for this type of work.
If I need to do something like that....I'll mix it with other 'harder setting' putties......Possibly M/P or more frequently Majic Sculp in 50/50 ratio
To get putty to stick to a metal model (if you're converting it)....It's best to 'warm' the metal model......I pop mine on a radiator during the cold Months.
I then 'smear' the tiniest blob of putty onto the area I'm going to be working on....So there's an almost non existent amount on the model... Then work putty on to that.
ProCreate is another very good putty.....Not my particular favourite....But Clibby gets some truly stunning results with that.
From a very personal view I generally find it too stiff to mix...(Clib must have much stronger fingers than your truly ;D ;D)..though I'm more than happy when I DO use it.
In a nutshell...At 'our' scale.
M/P .....Not a great deal of use for 'small items'.....Though fairly easy to work for larger stuff.
(I personally hate it because I'm very allergic to the dust when it's sanded....Unless I wear a dust mask)
G/S...Probably the most versatile.
P/C.....'Almost a sort of' combination between the two....And a truly damn good putty......I might well have ended up using this in preference to G/S if I hadn't got so used to G/S....Basically....Because it was G/S or M/P all those years ago....When dinosaurs still roamed the Earth. ;) ;D ;D
I hope that helps !...And feel free to ask more if this has still come out as gibberish !
Cheers
Quote from: Techno on 24 December 2013, 01:17:01 PM
Hi Steve. :)
Right.... The following is purely from my own experience....But I think it'll be relevant....I believe (hope) that all of my colleagues that spend most of their days 'pushing putty' around would agree.
Milliput..
A very useful putty for what I'd call 'straight line' work.
It tends to set 'rock hard', so can't be 'tweaked' by bending, because it tends to shatter...and then you'd have to re-make whatever you'd just 'spoiled'.
It can be a real s*d to try and stick to anything (but only if you're using really miniscule amounts.)......I've used fairly copious amounts to mend things that have got nothing to do with our hobby....Like a fine crack in a toilet cistern.....(True !!...Honestly !!)
I find it a very 'messy' putty to work with...But once dry, it's wonderful if you need to scrape or sand things down to a 'sharp' shape....eg, a sword in whatever scale.
Green Stuff (I find) is FAR more versatile (once you've got used to it ;))......
About the only thing you MIGHT find a problem with is doing the aforementioned 'straight line work'.
You won't get as sharp edges. unless you're a sad g*t like me who has super-ultra-fine glass/sand paper......But I still wouldn't trust it for this type of work.
If I need to do something like that....I'll mix it with other 'harder setting' putties......Possibly M/P or more frequently Majic Sculp in 50/50 ratio
To get putty to stick to a metal model (if you're converting it)....It's best to 'warm' the metal model......I pop mine on a radiator during the cold Months.
I then 'smear' the tiniest blob of putty onto the area I'm going to be working on....So there's an almost non existent amount on the model... Then work putty on to that.
ProCreate is another very good putty.....Not my particular favourite....But Clibby gets some truly stunning results with that.
From a very personal view I generally find it too stiff to mix...(Clib must have much stronger fingers than your truly ;D ;D)..though I'm more than happy when I DO use it.
In a nutshell...At 'our' scale.
M/P .....Not a great deal of use for 'small items'.....Though fairly easy to work for larger stuff.
(I personally hate it because I'm very allergic to the dust when it's sanded....Unless I wear a dust mask)
G/S...Probably the most versatile.
P/C.....'Almost a sort of' combination between the two....And a truly damn good putty......I might well have ended up using this in preference to G/S if I hadn't got so used to G/S....Basically....Because it was G/S or M/P all those years ago....When dinosaurs still roamed the Earth. ;) ;D ;D
I hope that helps !...And feel free to ask more if this has still come out as gibberish !
Cheers
Phil, many thanks for the above. I have now been working with green stuff for a few weeks. It works really well for making things with the 'mini mold' plastic mold maker to do bits for conversion etc. Much easier to use for little bits. But I find it is much stickier than Milliput and so still getting the hang of it. It also does not seem to behave in the same way as Milliput with water - can get even stickier rather than just becoming smooth. any tips on the stickiness?
cheers
Steve
Hi Steve.
From my own experience green and water don't really work too well together.
A couple of 'rules of thumb' for green stuff.
The warmer the ambient temperature is.......The stickier it will 'behave'......Once you've got the g/s attached to the figure, you can try putting it in the fridge for a short while.
On odd occasions, when I've had to leave a figure for a couple of hours or so.....But haven't wanted the putty to cure at its normal speed....That's the method I've used.
To make the putty 'firmer', and less sticky, when you're working on it, you can alter the ratio of the blue to green.
The more blue you add...The less sticky it becomes....and the faster it cures.
As far as smoothing g/s is concerned.....You either have to keep 'working it' back and forth with the modelling tools....Which takes a bit of practise......Alternatively try using some artists' colour shapers......They work wonderfully well with a LOT less practise. ;)
Hope that helps.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 17 February 2014, 09:38:34 PM
....Alternatively try using some artists' colour shapers......They work wonderfully well with a LOT less practise. ;)
Phil
thanks, not sure what artists' colour shapers are though?
Steve
They look a bit like small paint brushes, Steve.
Instead of bristles, they have a short, stubby, silicon (?) head.
I got mine through Amazon. :)
(There's probably a piccy of them somewhere on the forum already......I'll try and find it a bit later. ;))
Cheers - Phil.
Here you go ;)
(http://www.heatoncooper.co.uk/shopimages/products/normal/finished%20products%20normal/brushes/pastel%20brushes%20colour%20shapers/colourshapers.jpg)
Thanks Gareth !! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 19 February 2014, 10:31:49 AM
Thanks Gareth !! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
You are most welcome :)
Haven't a bloody
CLUE what you do with them; but you are welcome :D
Smooth/push the putty with them, Gareth. ;)
For certain parts of models they're easier and quicker to use than the dental tools. :).....and the putty doesn't ever stick to them.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 20 February 2014, 07:47:48 AM
Smooth/push the putty with them, Gareth. ;)
For certain parts of models they're easier and quicker to use than the dental tools. :).....and the putty doesn't ever stick to them.
Cheers - Phil.
We're still talking miniatures right... :D