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Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => Older Previews => Previous Years' Previews => New Figure Previews => 2014 Previews => Topic started by: Dave on 09 December 2013, 08:47:04 PM

Title: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Dave on 09 December 2013, 08:47:04 PM
Did they carry the sword or were they like the brits kept the sword on the horse?

Dave
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 09 December 2013, 09:19:49 PM
As far as I know, it was carried on the rear left saddle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KavallerieDivision.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KavallerieDivision.jpg)
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1024 (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1024)
http://www.allworldwars.com/German-World-War-I-Postcards-Part-I.html (http://www.allworldwars.com/German-World-War-I-Postcards-Part-I.html) Three down
http://www.kaiserzeit.com/3-ref/cavalry.htm (http://www.kaiserzeit.com/3-ref/cavalry.htm)
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Hertsblue on 10 December 2013, 08:38:32 AM
Depends what time you're depicting, Dave. According to German Army Handbook April 1918 swords were withdrawn from the German cavalry in July 1915.
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: fsn on 10 December 2013, 08:58:34 AM
That tells me that either a) the troops had ditched swords by 1914 or b) the troops kept their swords until 1916 or 17.
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Hertsblue on 10 December 2013, 10:59:24 AM
Probably the former. One less hunk of heavy metal to lug around.
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Dave on 13 December 2013, 09:21:09 PM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 10 December 2013, 08:38:32 AM
Depends what time you're depicting, Dave. According to German Army Handbook April 1918 swords were withdrawn from the German cavalry in July 1915.

I was looking at depicting the 14/early 15 period, the photo shows a dismounted german trooper with the sword on his left hand side, I pressume this is correct.

Dave
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Si Tyler on 13 December 2013, 09:27:40 PM
The postcards http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4727.0.html here indicate that the sword scabbard is part of the horse furniture. I would imagine pictures of them being worn on the belt was walking dress to impress the ladies.  FWIW if you are looking at dragoons when r we going to see the mounted ones :)
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Dave on 14 December 2013, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: Si Tyler on 13 December 2013, 09:27:40 PM
The postcards http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4727.0.html here indicate that the sword scabbard is part of the horse furniture. I would imagine pictures of them being worn on the belt was walking dress to impress the ladies.  FWIW if you are looking at dragoons when r we going to see the mounted ones :)

Yes its been requested, regarding the dismounted this is the research situation from the designer

'I cannot find anything to indicate that they would look any different to
normal infantry: pickelhaube, braces & pouches, except they would lack entrenching tools & canteens probably.'

is this research correct?

Dave
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Hertsblue on 14 December 2013, 11:12:17 AM
They would certainly not carry packs or entrenching tools. Cavalry on dismounted duty (as opposed to mounted cavalry dismounting in action) seem to have worn the standard webbing with the ammunition pouches on the front of the belt.
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Si Tyler on 14 December 2013, 08:49:31 PM
Depends on what they are doing.  If you are looking for dismounts during Cavalry options then probably agree however

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_136-B0560,_Frankreich,_Kavalleristen_im_Sch%C3%BCtzengraben.jpg

This may be of use as well.....http://2chevauleger.org/Resources/Bavchevbook2013.pdf


Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Dave on 16 December 2013, 06:18:53 PM
Quote from: Si Tyler on 14 December 2013, 08:49:31 PM
Depends on what they are doing.  If you are looking for dismounts during Cavalry options then probably agree however

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_136-B0560,_Frankreich,_Kavalleristen_im_Sch%C3%BCtzengraben.jpg

This may be of use as well.....http://2chevauleger.org/Resources/Bavchevbook2013.pdf




I've asked the designer to do dismounted with the ammo pouches and Y belting no entrenching tools bayonets.  Thanks for the pictures I managed to find one dismounted cavalry manning a trench.

Dave

Dave
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: J.S. on 21 December 2013, 01:37:01 AM
German cavalry kept its swords on their horses. Carabine left side, sword right side.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Slag_van_Halen.jpg)

Maybe not the brightest day for the German cavalry, but in this pic of the Battle of Haelen you can see horses from both sides
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Hertsblue on 21 December 2013, 11:04:55 AM
Makes sense. You really wouldn't want to trail a sword around on foot.
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: J.S. on 23 December 2013, 04:13:14 PM
Got some more pics from a German book on WW1 uniforms
(http://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/c7b042-1387815038.jpg) (http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=c7b042-1387815038.jpg)

(http://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/5858d2-1387815153.jpg) (http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=5858d2-1387815153.jpg)


The new Kürassiere and Ulanen both lack the sword on their right side btw. Maybe it's not too late to change that.
In addition, I found pics were dismounted cavalry carries swords, but those were labelled as "Peacetime-Uniform".
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Hertsblue on 29 December 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Yes, the pictures in my Almark books of troopers in peacetime dress show them wearing swords on a waist-belt. But I would speculate that that would only happen on ceremonial or rear echelon duties.   
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: Si Tyler on 30 December 2013, 07:44:52 AM
J.S in the two photos the second one appears to have black leather boots and equipment can you provide any narrative on that as I had originally thought they were the same brown as the infantry (but then noticed the officer in black boots on the larger plate as well)

Regards
Title: Re: ww1 dismounted german dragoons
Post by: J.S. on 03 January 2014, 05:45:29 PM
Yes, I also wondered how this came about. Maybe the solution is the date: the description says "1. bayerisches Schwere Reiter Regiment 1916" (1. bavarian Heavy Cavalry Regiment). Could be that the black leather equip was issiued later on in the war.