Hello,
Ok. I am a total newbie to wargaming and have no minatures whatsoever as yet.
My friends from the Durham Pals Living History group have recommended and suggested i look on this site and say that 10mm is the way to go....
So after looking about a little i came up with a few questions:-
First of all i quite like the look of the Napoleonic ranges particularly the British (i used to be a member of a Napoleonic living history group so i have a bit of an idea of the period) but the website suggests that the British napoleonic range is "old" does this mean there will be a new range coming along soon, if so what is planned may i ask?
I am thinking of buying my first miniatures after christmas with so are napoleonics ok for a beginner?, how do i work out what i should look at buying?, what would be a good starting point as regarding army size? can you put any number of miniatures on a base?, should i paint myself or get them done?, which rules should i look at as a newbie?
Finally any other helpful newbie advice please?
Thanks in advance,
Ant information / advice will be greatly appreciated.
Paul
We will be working on a new Napoleonic British range, with the first figures being done by the designer this month. I'd expect to have some kind of release ready towards the middle of next year hopefully.
From entirely my own point of view, I always think that the Napoleonic period is very detail heavy for someone starting out, and could be either very interesting / very draining, depending on your own level of interest in that era. With you already having some knowledge of that period, it might not be too bad though. There's always the WW1 ranges as well, just in time for the centenary?
Hi Paul,
a few suggestions:
- Try and play some wargames first of all to what sort of game you enjoy and what sort of period. Nothing too large or fancy to start with so that you are not overwhelmed by the whole thing.
- Napoleonics are a bit too much to start with IMHO as Leon suggests. Such a varied period for the wargamer starting out in the hobby.
- Pop down to WH Smith and buy a few wargames magazines (or borrow some) so that you can get an idea of what it's all about. I'd suggest Miniature Wargames & Wargames Illustrated as a good starting point. There are a few others but their names escape me at present.
- I'd suggest getting a few sample miniatures from Leon so that you can see them in the flesh so to speak and see whether you would want to paint them or not. I'd recommend some from the American War of Independence, Napoleonic, American Civil War and say WWI ranges. That way you can get a quick flavour of what is involved and the sculpts are rather lovely which makes painting so much easier.
Anyway, I hope this helps a bit and I'm sure others will pop along with their suggestions as well.
Might I recommend the ACW? The ranges were resculpted this year and are little crackers. The uniforms can be relatively simple, and you can quite realistically just use horse, foot and artillery.
Once you've got the basics, you can add variety and complexity - add Zouaves and sharpshooters; differentiate between a Parrot and a Napoleon.
cheers both!
I will be playing a few games with my mates soon from different periods. I know they have recently bought and now play with Vietnam sets.
I understand what you are saying but Napoleonics still "float my boat" as i have a fair bit of knowledge thanks to my living history and i find the period really interesting and i just love the tactics, uniforms / style etc
Paul
I totally and utterly sympathise. My second love was the 1st Empire. I'm waiting for the release of the new Brits before I plunge in.
Good luck.
Post some pics, unless you're really, really good at painting, in which case I shall cease to communicate with you out of pure infantile jealousy. ;)
Hi there Paul I would suggest joining a wargames club in your local area and playing as many periods and rules as possible before deciding. However I would like to welcome you to the forum and the wonderful world of wargaming
take care
Andy
Womble
I thought about that but the Durham wargames club want £80 a year fee. I cant justify that just yet...but i think i will be round my mates house quite a lot. They have several periods so i can give them all a go...
How do you go about choosing what to buy? Does this depend upon the ruleset chosen mainly or just personal choice?
I go with:
A) what are my mates playing and what is missing from that set.
B) what am I interested in.
C) ohhhh shiny!
HEllo and welcome to the forum!!
Quote from: brummie76 on 04 December 2013, 09:44:29 PM
How do you go about choosing what to buy? Does this depend upon the ruleset chosen mainly or just personal choice?
I usually buy what i like the most, and make that work :D
Off course I mainly buy WW2 stuff so that's a bit easier. If you want to go napoleonics it might be a lot more complicated. You're best bet is your mates. IF they say that 10mm is the way to go, then they must have some themselves. Look at what they have, how their army is based and what ruleset they are using. As a beginner it might be easier to just build a force without having to worry about a second one to play against :-\
If your force goes well with that of your mates, you can get some games in and you will start to 'feel' wich route you can go. If you like it stick to that, if you don't, experiment yourself, trying other rules, changeing base sizes/figures per base etc...
Off course that's when you have to buy 2 forces to get games in ;D ;D ;D
edit: Lemmey beat me to it! Sneaky git :P
Some good points. Thanks!
I cant wait to have a go.
Dare i sneak in that AWI Brits take my fancy a little too ;)
Anything sculpted by Clib is amazing!
What they said.
The one thing I would counsel is to avoid overloading on the the pretty units. I know they're boring, but those line infantry are needed. If I were to start a French army now, I'd go for a strong backbone of line infantry, with a couple of light for variety, some dragoons or chevaux legere and a couple of foot artillery batteries.
Once you've done that, you can add horse artillery, hussars, Vistula lancers, and red-coated Swiss infantry and, if you really must, the bloody Garde.
I use historical Orders of Battle to get the right balance, but then again I'm a miserable old git who plays with himself. I think Mr Coonan is right in most things and his advice is well founded.
Quote from: fsn on 04 December 2013, 10:06:29 PM
I'm a miserable old git who plays with himself.
:-& :-& :-& :-&
Quote from: fsn on 04 December 2013, 10:06:29 PM
I think Mr Coonan is right in most things and his advice is well founded.
8) 8)
My advice on choosing armies remains what it has always been ... pick one you'll love even when it's losing :)
I thought everyone started on Naps? It's like beginning opera with Verdi.
Not least because you look back with gentle affection years later from Mozart or from Pike and Shot, and give a mild shudder of embarrassment at your origins.
Meanwhile, welcome to the fraternity of super-nerds. We're one big happy family (like the house of Atreus).
Quote from: FierceKitty on 05 December 2013, 02:12:10 AM
I thought everyone started on Naps? It's like beginning opera with Verdi.
;D
Sadly, I began opera with Wagner's Ring - explains a lot really! :-\ :-\ ;)
Mollinary
I started with Puccini, la Traviata at the amphitheatre in Verona.
Would also explain a lot...
The Ring is to be approached when you're ready for it.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 05 December 2013, 09:58:14 AM
I started with Puccini, la Traviata at the amphitheatre in Verona.
Would also explain a lot...
Puccini didn't write
La Traviata.
With lubrication an optional extra. ;)
I tend to start with a period that attracts me, buy loads of figures, start painting them, then hunt out the rules i enjoy. Only to find that my friends have got some already but in a different scale, based for a different rule set or are on the same side as me.
So buy what you want, organise them as you see fit, paint them as well as you can be bothered, then put them in a box wait 5 to 6 years to find an opponent.
Buy loads and enjoy them.
Welcome aboard
Quote from: howayman on 05 December 2013, 10:42:35 AM
With lubrication an optional extra. ;)
I tend to start with a period that attracts me, buy loads of figures, start painting them, then hunt out the rules i enjoy. Only to find that my friends have got some already but in a different scale, based for a different rule set or are on the same side as me.
So buy what you want, organise them as you see fit, paint them as well as you can be bothered, then put them in a box wait 5 to 6 years to find an opponent.
Buy loads and enjoy them.
Welcome aboard
Wild guess here, but are you the "OOOO shiny" type? ;D ;D
Quote from: FierceKitty on 05 December 2013, 10:29:34 AM
The Ring is to be approached when you're ready for it.
Bit late to tell me that now! :D
Mollinary
You didn't ask me!
Sure it wasn't his younger, less well known cousins Vini and Vici?
There was no love lost in their later careers, but starting out in the mid 1800s they did collaborate as a trio?
Quote from: mad lemmey on 05 December 2013, 12:39:30 PM
Sure it wasn't his younger, less well known cousins Vedi and Vici?
There was no love lost in their later careers, but starting out in the mid 1800s they did collaborate as a trio?
Not sure this is quite right. Don't you vini and vici? :-\
Wot? Vicky and her cousin Vinny? Vinny, Vedi and Vicky who wrote "La tragedia di Giulio Cesare" first produced in La Scalectrix in Mile End? :P
Thanks Mollinary, those are the chaps (post changed to match)
Wasn't Vinnie and Vicky's second opera 'The Pirates of Plymouth', didn't really take off due to the ship being boarded in the first act by HM customs and excise?
Quote from: brummie76 on 04 December 2013, 09:30:24 PM
cheers both!
I will be playing a few games with my mates soon from different periods. I know they have recently bought and now play with Vietnam sets.
I understand what you are saying but Napoleonics still "float my boat" as i have a fair bit of knowledge thanks to my living history and i find the period really interesting and i just love the tactics, uniforms / style etc
Paul
As stated before. Join a club. Most clubs invite guest for an evening or two for free so you can get a feel.
10mm means you will be expanding fairly quickly to other eras than Napoleonics. Concerning Basing and painting I recommend to look at Nik's pages on how to paint small scales and how to prep minis. It helped me a lot. For practice I recomend getting various scales and settings (just a few samples) and work your way down from the largest to smallest.
Then you should visit Wargame shows (seeing the Pendrakens in person) and possibly look around.
Welcome to the forum, leave sanity at the doorstep and DO ask fsn about Centurions :P
Thanks SEBIGBOSS79 for getting this topic back on track....i got lost there for a bit! :D
Roll on crimbo and hope to have some spare cash!
Asi i said before Naps is still calling me and possibly AWI. Both look awesome!
Time to read my Sharpe collection again!!
To recap on another point, bear in mind that if you're not going to paint what your mates are using you will need to paint both sides. This is not such a problem in 10mm, cost-wise, but it does mean that you will not get them on the table as soon as you might like. I would also echo everyone else's advice to play the field (quite literally) as far as periods are concerned.
I would say if you go Napoleonic DON'T do Brits.
I love Nap Brits - the facings, the flags the line of red...
However...
You are stuck in the Peninsula, and I am one of those who thinks that is a difficult period for rules to get right, because Wellington's tactics were so different, you end up with the dreaded "+2 for being British" to try and make things work (which it won't). I'd say go Russian or Austrian
Have you thought about Seven Years War? (and I would like to take this opportunity to once again blame Sunjester for the reason I have hundreds of WSS in the garage, rather than SYW!) There is a really good Wiki for it
http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Main_Page (http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Main_Page)
I would second the suggestion you play a few games before you splash the cash. Also don't fixated on shiny before you are happy - there are free rules on the web
http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/ (http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/) for example
and you can use counters for the first few games- basicallly the bases without the figures
You could try the War of 1812?
Last Hussar - Thanks for that....SYW could be an option, i will look into that too!
Cheers
I started on Naps, but bless the day I switched to SYW. Much more important conflict in its global effects, there are more exciting personalities, and all the big five can field decent armies. And the standard was generally higher.
SYW has many advantages - pretty uniforms with recognisable facings, linear tactics and no clouds of skirmishers (well relatively few, anyway) and all the information you would want, in print or on the net.
You can even play some music by Old Fritz while fighting.
Hi Paul and welcome,
You sound very similar to me when I started "ahem" years ago. I started by buying some airfix Brits and French Napoleonics, then looked for wargame rules, then played some games with some mates, then painted them when I realised what a good hobby it was, then bought some "proper" 25mm figures when the paint started to peel off the plastic, then when I had British and French armies decided to try ECW in 25mm, then discovered 15mm and bought some ancients (many actually), also built two Napoleonic corps of French and Bavarians in 15mm, then discovered 6mm WW2 ......... :o
Although that journey is no where near finished (I every time I speak to Dave or Leon I feel the need to "encourage" :D them to make a new model) every step has been an enjoyable one. The hobby for me is not just about collecting; it's more about the research and turning that research into a sort of living history on the table-top. It also is quite a cheap one because I paint so slowly the cost gets nicely spread.
Leon has said Pendraken will be producing both peninsular and Waterloo period British (feel free to jump in with a when Leon), so you are probably advised to wait for them. In the meantime there are plenty of French available to be getting on with.
For the other matters you asked about:
Figures to base and sizes should be covered in any rules you look at, look in wargame magazines.
Buy a book or two with titles such as "Armies of the Napoleonic Wars" to find out troop types and organisation.
Look at this web site as a starting point http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/index.html (http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/index.html)
Play a number of periods. In your case Vietnam sounds quite a good idea.
Enjoy yourself.
As a final warning I am now collecting, painting, and writing the rules for 10mm Napoleonics (my fourth Napoleonic army and third scale). It all seems very reasonable and logical to me :-S(or am I just sad, mad or both?). :-/ :D
Cheers Rob :) :)
I'm not so sure about Viet Nam. It's a difficult war to get the right feel of. Jungles and stealthy movement. Never had a satisfying Viet Nam game - except oddly enough when playing solo.
Ancients may be another way to go. A lot of ancients battles were fought on flat featureless ground and there are no real "long range" weapons to spoil the aesthetics.
Something slightly more up to date would be the Western Desert 1941. Lots of odd looking vehicles, plenty of background materials and iconic Generals.
So i think from all that has been said above i feel that the best way to go is to pick something you like the look of and have an good interest in....
I am not just doing this to play but also am looking forward to having a go at painting again so this therefore again points me in the direction of what i think i will like best.
In addition after reading all the posts and looking at the website i could easily afford two small armies so i can organise a game with someone if none of my friends have the figures i have.
Finally as regards rules.... well i see there are many sets out there and all appear to be adaptable in some way so yet again this issue appears to fit in with my idea of "buy what appeals"....
So now thanks to everyone above i now think its a toss up between naps or SYW? Hummm??? :-\
Quote from: brummie76 on 06 December 2013, 01:21:21 PM
So now thanks to everyone above i now think its a toss up between naps or SYW? Hummm??? :-\
My method of decision in such cases is to work out what I can afford, work out what I could get for each option given the limiited funds, decide which gives the best balance of usable forces and interesting stuff to paint ... then I spend twice what I can afford on each of the options :)
My choice would be...
Buy SYW until the Napoleonic British come out
SYW or Napoleonic?
Defintely ACW.
Quote from: brummie76 on 05 December 2013, 11:52:46 PM
(...)....SYW could be an option (...)
yes it is ! ;)
I started SYW only a few months ago, caught by the lovely minis...
I also had to paint two armies ( http://smolensk.homelinux.org/?tag=syw (http://smolensk.homelinux.org/?tag=syw) ) but now my friends are joining me.
They had some armies ( Napo, and we also had some ACW ), but as everybody here is beginning this era :
- we're all using 10mm ( Pendraken ! "what else ?!" )
- we're all newbie about SYW
- we're all equals
This not-so-common era is very interesting.
Big advantage of SYW is Tricornes.
I have a tricorne
Tricornes are cool.
I thought that was fezzes, Doctor.
Fezes are, and always will be, cool.
another question which comes to light........ are there any good online painting guides?
Malburian or Spanish War of Succession is good to
When you say online painting guide do you mean in general of for a specific period?
If you want a general guide you cant go far wrong with this
http://nikharwood.pbworks.com/w/page/7825400/10mm%20Painting%20
Quote from: Rob on 06 December 2013, 11:27:53 AM
Leon has said Pendraken will be producing both peninsular and Waterloo period British (feel free to jump in with a when Leon)...
The sculptor is starting on them this month, I just need to finalise the lists before sending them over to him.
8)
A fez can't be all that cool; no hatbrim! But they do look nifty on the table, and it's always fun to field a Khedival army.
Another route: find a set of rules you are interested in. http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/ (http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/)is a good start. Pop over to Junior General http://www.juniorgeneral.org/ (http://www.juniorgeneral.org/) and grab some paper troops. I like topdowns because you can print them to fix your rules base size. Play some games with paper terrain and see what periods and mechanics work for you. Then come back here and order your figures.
Therein lies the road to madness. There are a number of very god painters around - just look at some of the posts on this forum and you will see some excellent examples. By all means read the guides and see what other people do, but have a go and define your own style.
Quote from: brummie76 on 05 December 2013, 03:31:35 PM
Thanks SEBIGBOSS79 for getting this topic back on track....i got lost there for a bit! :D
You will get used to it ;)
I did napoleonic infantry then cavalry, but funnily enough never ever got any figures... I game dinosaur hunting, pulp and fantasy. A whole lot easier to paint as I don't have to worry about the correct colour for the facings of the different regiments. There are however some amazing painters on here. I have lately started on the. Nik style and am pleased with the results. It certainly gets figures on the table. If I hadn't have discovered minecraft I reckon I would have finished everything.
I echo what a number have said. Do what you fancy even if that means a skirmish type battle s that you don't get overwhelmed by hundreds of figures at one go.
On and to go back off subject... yeah was Wagner for me too.
Purcell. Dido and Aeneas.
Thanks again all!
I think i fancy buying an army pack of naps to begin with, paint them then see about rules and gaming as i can then see what things i may need to look at getting next.....but i think a pack may be a good base to start with (the French naps look really good! ;) )
To marry the themes in this thread - I find when I'm painting a big project, the Ring on headphones keeps me going rather well.
With this Ring I thee wed.... :P :P :P
Welcome brummie.
OK a few points.
1. Start with what interests you. Napoleonic is the best place to start for you then!
2. Don't panic!
3. Find some rules. This is entirely a matter of preference so it may be worth trying various sets. For Nap, there are a few choices, but start with something simple. Try these http://www.dbnwargaming.co.uk/ (http://www.dbnwargaming.co.uk/). If you can find a copy of Black Powder, that's nice and simple with a good gaming ethic. More complex and 'realistic' sets exist (e.g. General de Brigade and Age of Eagles, but that'll be a dive into the deep end for your start).
3a. The best way to learn rules is to find other experienced players and pitch in with them. Find a club. You mentioned Durham Wargames Group but discounted it on grounds of cost. DWG is a good group with excellent resources and decent chaps. £80 per year? Thats £1.50 per week, and i'm sure they'll consider a payment plan to help you.
4. Figures. To start you make mistakes, buy the wrong things, bumble through etc. 10mm is much more forgiving on the wallet than other scales! The best start is sort out the rules you're going to use, map out what forces you'll need and buy figures based on a plan around that. Building an army requires dedication and planning. This is a long-haul hobby! Start small with a core force. Get it painted and on the table, and add stuff on from there. IF you don't start playing early on chances are you'll lose interest. Also, playing will give you an idea of the things you'll need to buy.
4a. Painting 10mm requires different techniques than for larger figures. A few things to remember:
4a1. Your figures need to look good en masse at 4' away (on the table), not 4" away from your face!
4a2. Use brighter paint than you think you need.
4a3. Figure out a good basing technique - a good base makes average figures look better (at 4' most of what you see will be the base!
4a4. Learn from others, here and elsewhere on the interweb. There's loads of blogs etc., explaining how people paint, etc.
5. Get stuck in and have fun. :D
Quote from: Luddite on 08 December 2013, 07:26:50 PM
(...)
4a2. Use brighter paint than you think you need.
I'm always wrong with this...
and I won't repaint all my minis :(
Luddite wrote:- "3a. The best way to learn rules is to find other experienced players and pitch in with them. Find a club. You mentioned Durham Wargames Group but discounted it on grounds of cost. DWG is a good group with excellent resources and decent chaps. £80 per year? Thats £1.50 per week, and i'm sure they'll consider a payment plan to help you."
Luddite :- Do you have a contact email for the DWG as i would like to ask them about popping along, how they feel about beginners, do they have a facility to let me play with a "borrowed" army and possible payment options etc
Cheers,
Paul
Brummie, if they're anything like the wargames clubs I have visited over the years they will welcome you with open arms and you'll be "hail fellow, well met" within a month. There aren't many clubs in the country who aren't looking for new members, I would say, so find out where they meet and just roll up. You won't regret it. :-bd
Quote from: brummie76 on 15 December 2013, 11:33:13 PM
Luddite :- Do you have a contact email for the DWG as i would like to ask them about popping along, how they feel about beginners, do they have a facility to let me play with a "borrowed" army and possible payment options etc
Cheers,
Paul
We see the club secretary on a regular basis as well, so drop me a line if you'd like me to pass on his details.
Thanks Leon,
PM sent!
Quote from: brummie76 on 15 December 2013, 11:33:13 PM
Luddite wrote:- "3a. The best way to learn rules is to find other experienced players and pitch in with them. Find a club. You mentioned Durham Wargames Group but discounted it on grounds of cost. DWG is a good group with excellent resources and decent chaps. £80 per year? Thats £1.50 per week, and i'm sure they'll consider a payment plan to help you."
Luddite :- Do you have a contact email for the DWG as i would like to ask them about popping along, how they feel about beginners, do they have a facility to let me play with a "borrowed" army and possible payment options etc
Cheers,
Paul
Paul, i guarantee you'll be welcomed.
You should get a guided tour on your first night, and should be able to slot into a game or two to try things out thereafter. I recomend pitching in with various tables to see which group of chaps fit what you want best (and who you get along with the best of course)!
You'll find the contact details in my signature below, but I see Leon has already helped you make 'first contact'. Good luck. :D
Thanks Luddite! Appreciated!
Ok heres another....
Can anyone signpost me to any good wargaming websites please?
Ta
Quote from: brummie76 on 18 December 2013, 05:15:06 PM
Ok heres another....
Can anyone signpost me to any good wargaming websites please?
There's a couple listed here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6836.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6836.0.html) Mainly other forums, but there are a few more magazine type sites, like TMP and Tabletop Gaming News.
:D
I think TGN is better than TMP
Quote from: brummie76 on 18 December 2013, 05:15:06 PM
Ok heres another....
Can anyone signpost me to any good wargaming websites please?
Ta
There are lots of good blogs and forums out there. Pendraken's a top place though - troll free country.
:D
Unless its fantasy Trolls. ;)
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Search.aspx?Search=troll&AllWords=False (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Search.aspx?Search=troll&AllWords=False)