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Wider Wargaming => Non-Pendraken Stuff => Topic started by: Tony S on 02 December 2013, 08:39:01 PM

Title: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Tony S on 02 December 2013, 08:39:01 PM
When you use 10mm figures and the rules are in inches do you modify the ground scale to cm or do you still use the inches? I'm thinking about Colonial games.

Thanks

Tony

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Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Leman on 02 December 2013, 08:41:42 PM
Simple answer is, are you using the original basing but with 10mm figures, or are you reducing the basing as well? I have done both and both work well.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 02 December 2013, 08:43:26 PM
I would still use measurement as is.. but I use smaller figures so I can get more on the bases to make them look like armies

Still waiting for someone to write a set of rules with a 'Shaftment' being the standard unit of measure  ;)
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Leman on 02 December 2013, 08:48:24 PM
Come on Fenton, a lot of rules now use the 'base width' as the unit of measure. I then base on 25mm frontage and measure in inches (OK i did that with the SYW, but I now use a lot of 30mm frontage armies - ho hum).
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Nirnman on 02 December 2013, 08:59:56 PM
what is a 'shaftment'?
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: ronan on 02 December 2013, 09:00:22 PM
Quote from: Tony S on 02 December 2013, 08:39:01 PM
When you use 10mm figures and the rules are in inches do you modify the ground scale to cm or do you still use the inches?

hello
here we use 1 inch for 2cm ( instead of 2.54cm)
1. easy for us to compute ( as we use metrics rulers )
2. gain a small amount of space to game ( the board looks like it is 25% larger)
3. for most of our games, it's near the real scale.

I hope this helped you.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: ronan on 02 December 2013, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: Nirnman on 02 December 2013, 08:59:56 PM
what is a 'shaftment'?

I googled and found :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaftment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaftment)
:o

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Hand_Units_of_Measurement.PNG)
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 02 December 2013, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: Nirnman on 02 December 2013, 08:59:56 PM
what is a 'shaftment'?

According to a book I have it  was used a measure of 6 inches up until the 12th Century.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Leman on 02 December 2013, 09:03:19 PM
I think you've just been shafted!
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 02 December 2013, 09:03:27 PM
My brain keeps thinking of being shafted etc
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Sandinista on 03 December 2013, 07:08:20 AM
we have used inches halved and works well, centimetres are fine but seem to generate a bit more haggling over shooting measurements
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: fsn on 03 December 2013, 07:11:35 AM
Quote from: Fenton on 02 December 2013, 09:03:27 PM
My brain keeps thinking of being shafted etc

Is it something to do with your age, do you think?
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Hertsblue on 03 December 2013, 09:39:32 AM
I try to train myself to use metric (all my rules use metric) as it's so much easier than imperial, but I still find myself having to convert to inches to estimate distances. Too old to change now, I guess.  :(
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: republic of tolworth on 03 December 2013, 12:38:13 PM
As Sandanista said for all the Black powder variants we tend to go inches halved. Gives us a musket range of 9" which means we have plenty of room to manouver and get in to trouble  :D

Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 03 December 2013, 01:53:19 PM
I go inches for cm in black powder...
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 03 December 2013, 02:18:35 PM
I do prefer to see my base sizes in metric..seeing sizes of 1 and 7/8 of an inch puts me off now
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: kustenjaeger on 03 December 2013, 02:35:29 PM
Greetings

I use either inches or centimetres depending on what I am using.  So some games in 10mm e.g. Field of Battle (reduced scale) and Black Poweder I am aiming to use centimetres, while I will use inches with Maurice as my SYW bases are 25mm/1 inch frontage.

Regards

Edward
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: petercooman on 03 December 2013, 07:56:00 PM
Always in cm here!
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Last Hussar on 03 December 2013, 08:27:26 PM
This is a question that annoys me (sorry)

Rules that say use x for 25mm figs, y for 15mm etc are wrong, especially if the units are given in bases.

As was pointed about its about what you use for bases.

Take Black Powder- this gives 24 fig units each on 20mm base - a frontage of 240mm, a depth of 40mm.

It does not matter a damn what size figures you use - the unit footprint is 240mm x 40mm.  As long as your unit has that as a footprint then you can use what size figures you like.- a 20mm base will take 4-6 10mm.

As it happens Sunjester and I have used cm instead of inches, purely as a cost and space thing BUT all our units are on a 120mm frontage.  I get 36 figures to the unit - this being equivalent to the 45mm base size given in the rules.  I would love to do it in inches - using 4 of our cm battallions to make 1 inches bn - as we do WSS this would be right - 4 ranks deep, and a total game bn size of 144.  What looks more H&M? 24 28mm or 144 10mm?

Another example They Couldn't Hit and Elephant (TFL) gets it right.  If using 15 or 20s that the rules were wriiten for, one base is 4 men, and you do figure removal.  For 10s you put more on a base (I get 7) and keep a casualty track - 4 hits kills one base.

We do CoC in both 20's (my figs) and 10's (Sj's) - we still use inches for both

I agree with the comment about silly base sizes - what is it about the Yanks and their 1 1/8 inch by 7/8 inch?  All my bases are either 20 (BP for WSS) or 30mm- 30mm is a good 'inch' replacement- compatable with most sets, and fits nicely in the Hobby trays (60mm compartments) of Really Useful Boxes.

/rant off
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 03 December 2013, 08:29:13 PM
Quote from: Last Hussar on 03 December 2013, 08:27:26 PM
This is a question that annoys me (sorry)

Rules that say use x for 25mm figs, y for 15mm etc are wrong, especially if the units are given in bases.

As was pointed about its about what you use for bases.

Take Black Powder- this gives 24 fig units each on 20mm base - a frontage of 240mm, a depth of 40mm.

It does not matter a damn what size figures you use - the unit footprint is 240mm x 40mm.  As long as your unit has that as a footprint then you can use what size figures you like.- a 20mm base will take 4-6 10mm.

As it happens Sunjester and I have used cm instead of inches, purely as a cost and space thing BUT all our units are on a 120mm frontage.  I get 36 figures to the unit - this being equivalent to the 45mm base size given in the rules.  I would love to do it in inches - using 4 of our cm battallions to make 1 inches bn - as we do WSS this would be right - 4 ranks deep, and a total game bn size of 144.  What looks more H&M? 24 28mm or 144 10mm?

Another example They Couldn't Hit and Elephant (TFL) gets it right.  If using 15 or 20s that the rules were wriiten for, one base is 4 men, and you do figure removal.  For 10s you put more on a base (I get 7) and keep a casualty track - 4 hits kills one base.

We do CoC in both 20's (my figs) and 10's (Sj's) - we still use inches for both

I agree with the comment about silly base sizes - what is it about the Yanks and their 1 1/8 inch by 7/8 inch?  All my bases are either 20 (BP for WSS) or 30mm- 30mm is a good 'inch' replacement- compatable with most sets, and fits nicely in the Hobby trays (60mm compartments) of Really Useful Boxes.

/rant off

I agree
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Shecky on 04 December 2013, 04:27:34 AM
I prefer metric for bases but imperial for game measurement - unless the rules specify measurement by base width.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: FierceKitty on 04 December 2013, 09:17:47 AM
I prefer inches. Cm are too fiddly and I like a game to get going fast.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Leman on 04 December 2013, 04:41:47 PM
And.........we're back in the room.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Orcs on 04 December 2013, 11:53:14 PM
 I much prefer being given a number of CM or inches than a number of base widths. It is especially confusing if your figures are based for other rulesets say Fire and fury on 1 1/4 inch bases. It also implies that there is a relevance between a units frontage and range or movement.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Leman on 05 December 2013, 12:59:37 PM
Thank god I don't have a mathematical mind because that previous post seems:

a) irrelevant, and;

b) can't be arsed to make a base width measure.

Is it not obvious the rules writer is doing you the biggest favour in the world by not having to rebase. Anyhow who cares - measure what you like using whatever system you like, have fun and don't fry your brain over wargames realism. If you want realism join the Army.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: kustenjaeger on 05 December 2013, 01:53:56 PM
Greetings

If a base width measurement is used and the bases are a bit out from an easy measurement the rules suggest using the next nearest easy measure.  So the 1 1/4 inch base could use 3cm or maybe an inch by agreement between the players.  Actually I find a trickier issue is the difference between rules that have the same base width for all units vs different ones for different troop types (the easiest fix for this is temporary sabot basing).   

Regards

Edward
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Hertsblue on 05 December 2013, 03:29:06 PM
I've never been able to see how the "hand's width" measurement could ever work. The human hand is so variable in size that one player might have a couple of inches  extra move over his opponent.  :-\
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Maenoferren on 05 December 2013, 03:44:48 PM
For my dinosaur hunting games I use cm instead of inches as a rifle has a top range of 96 inches. As I also am basing my stuff for Warmaster the rules stand as is.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Sandinista on 05 December 2013, 06:43:01 PM
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 05 December 2013, 12:59:37 PM
If you want realism join the Army.

:D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: DaveH on 05 December 2013, 09:19:25 PM
Base sizes metric. Measurement I'm fine with using either metric or imperial, so cm or inches though I prefer centimetres these days
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: DanJ on 10 January 2014, 02:31:00 PM
I buy 10mm figures, stick them on 40mm by 20mm bases and move them 6 inches >:(

Why?????

Forget imperial, embrace metrication and free your mind! 

I blame the Evil Empire and their Warshammer sets which use inches, probably because the accountants didn't understand metric.

Apart from the irrefutable logic of sticking with a single unit of measurement it also makes working out scale distances easier if you are of that particular bent of mind.  Using a different unit of measurement dicorces movement distances from the rest of the scales and stops people asking embassing questions like, "why can't my rifle shoot from one end of the bridge to the other?".
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 10 January 2014, 02:33:29 PM
All the rulesets from America to my knowledge are in inches including base sizes
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: sunjester on 10 January 2014, 03:10:59 PM
Quote from: DanJ on 10 January 2014, 02:31:00 PM
I buy 10mm figures, stick them on 40mm by 20mm bases and move them 6 inches >:(

Why?????

Forget imperial, embrace metrication and free your mind!  

I read that as "embrace medication"! ;D

Probably appropriate here. :P
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: fateeore on 10 January 2014, 04:35:48 PM
It reminds me of when I was at school.

Metrication was just starting to be taught and someone asked the teacher how far 500m was, she replied "about quarter of a mile."
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 10 January 2014, 05:07:27 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 10 January 2014, 02:33:29 PM
All the rulesets from America to my knowledge are in inches including base sizes

Yes but it is a fact well know dear reader that the Yanks are behind everybody else.

Seriously - bases are much easier in metric, and in most rules with larger figures (10mm and up) inches may give a better result.

IanS
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 10 January 2014, 05:13:34 PM
I agree trying to measure 1and  3/16 isn't fun
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Last Hussar on 10 January 2014, 05:59:11 PM
Arty Conliffe and his bloody 1 1/8 x 7/8 inches
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 10 January 2014, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: Last Hussar on 10 January 2014, 05:59:11 PM
Arty Conliffe and his bloody 1 1/8 x 7/8 inches
;D ;D


Ah yes I remember that
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: fsn on 10 January 2014, 06:38:12 PM
I saved meself the bother of that there new-fangled metricaulation stuff. I still base on 3 barlycorns, and move by hands or spans - artillery range in cubits of course.

Though I do prefer a good shaftment.


Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: FierceKitty on 11 January 2014, 01:07:17 AM
As you grow older, gentlemen, you will learn gratitude that medication for embraces exists! As will your loved ones.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 11 January 2014, 09:06:48 AM
FSN - how many perches on a rod ?

IanS
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Fenton on 11 January 2014, 09:43:12 AM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 11 January 2014, 09:06:48 AM
FSN - how many perches on a rod ?

IanS

Wouldnt this depend on the number of hooks?
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Hertsblue on 11 January 2014, 10:24:05 AM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 11 January 2014, 09:06:48 AM
FSN - how many perches on a rod ?

IanS

Depends how many chains you have.
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Ithoriel on 12 January 2014, 01:36:44 AM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 11 January 2014, 10:24:05 AM
Depends how many chains you have.

Now I'm thinking:

"Sticks and stones
May break my bones
but rods and chains
excite me!"

Shame on you ... err me  ;D ;D :-[



Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Last Hussar on 12 January 2014, 03:25:33 AM
Inches or centimeters?

What I use and what I claim may be two different systems...
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: Hertsblue on 12 January 2014, 10:05:13 AM
Ah, the elastic tape-measure - a time-honoured wargames feature.  :D
Title: Re: Inches or Centimetres?
Post by: DanJ on 14 January 2014, 04:07:50 PM
Of course you could always go down the SAGA route of making or buying special sticks of different lengths.

A good idea and I like SAGA but find it odd that a set of rules writen in french uses the anacronistic inch as it's unit of measurement, presumably to make sure they are acceptable to the transatlantic market.