A Ratte of course! A few lucky folk at the Warfare saw this one in the flesh, and the amount of interest it generated from passers-by was incredible. It's a huge model, around 24cm long I think, so somewhere near 120 ft in real life. It will have to be cast in resin of course, and should be making an appearance early next year sometime.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2828/11164395844_00ef92d4bb.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pendraken/11164395844/)
And next to a T-55 as well:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3696/11164371016_2cd75f348f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pendraken/11164371016/)
It certainly is a big beastie...
How far did they ever get on the construction of one of these ?
I never knew anything that size was even planned !
You live and learn ! :)
Cheers - Phil
8)
Never got beyond the planning stage Phil.
Huge, slow and requiring vast resources to develop and build - all the things the Third Reich didn't need in a tank!
The Germans only just managed to build one-and-a-half* "Maus" tanks, which were monsters themselves but a fraction of the size of this beast.
When the Russians captured the wrecked remains of the two "Maus" they decided to fit the one completed turret to the other hull as this would give the most complete version of the vehicle. It took six "Famo" (GR179 Sdkfz 9 'Famo') just to move the turret! Dealing with the logistics of the "Ratte" would have been a nightmare and as soon as it was spotted the Allied airforces would have bombed it flat. Completely impractical.
As well as the 1000-tonne P-1000 "Ratte" there was the 140-tonne E-100 "Tiger-Maus" which was basically to be a King Tiger with a Maus turret. One partial prototype was as far as the E-100 got.
Presumably the German design teams went on to design the ludicrous vehicles beloved of Sci-Fi wargames like those developed by the EE :-)
While all sorts of bizarre real troops never get into production.... :(
Goliath - number built (all versions) c.7500
203 mm howitzer M1931 (B-4) - number built 871
Ratte - number built 0
Jus' sayin' :)
I hate to be critical. but it does seem to be a bit of a waste of time...I suppose 28mm gamers could use it for SciFi
I cannot understand why the Germans didnt spot the obvious problem of the need for 18' tall crew. :-\
Quote from: Rob on 02 December 2013, 10:35:39 AM
I cannot understand why the Germans didnt spot the obvious problem of the need for 18' tall crew. :-\
Maybe that was the next step in their flawed plan for the Aryan Race
A friend of mine who does 28mm SciFi is asking how much it will be
Greetings
It was entertaining to see at Warfare but I suspect it may well be SF gamers in larger scales who might buy one.
Regards
Edward
I toyed with the idea of using the 15mm one from Forged in Battle for Sci fi games
I'm dreading the day when one of the kids at our club turns up with one and wants to join in. What can you say to him?
"We have a special rule at the club for those ?" :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Can't see the point of it. Aztecs would be a better option
Thanks for the comments so far! To address the 'waste of time' aspect, it's a bit of fun firstly, but it's also been done by a designer who wouldn't have been doing Aztecs at any point, so it's not taken the place of something else on the desgin schedule. The amount of interest it generated was surprising, and despite it's zero real life production run, we'll sell a good few of them I expect, either for Sci-Fi games or 1946 style WWII continuation games.
8)
It's ierry who wasted valuable time, they could have used the research on much more usable stuff.
Great model!!
Is there a Maus, or any of the E-series, available in 10mm?
I want one, will make a cool diorama or objective.
its a super heavy battle tank but a proper one. If GW did 10mm this is the size a Baneblade or Shadowsword should be.
(don't tell me its going to be £150 though)
Quote from: Techno on 02 December 2013, 05:01:09 PM
"We have a special rule at the club for those ?" :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Special "Ratte" rules
A "Ratte" counts all terrain except roads as impassable terrain. Any road used by a "Ratte" counts as a ploughed field for subsequent movement.
The 240mm guns of the "Ratte" have a minimum range of (diagonal distance across the playing surface + 10cms).
At the start of every player turn roll 1D6 for each "Ratte"
On a roll of 1 to 5 the ludicrous weight of the Ratte puts such strain on the engines that the "Ratte" is immobilised for the rest of the game
On a roll of 6+ the strain on the engines and transmission causes problems similar to those encountered by early Panthers but with much more catastrophic effects due to the vastly increased amounts of fuel and ammunition on board. The engines catch fire and the"Ratte" explodes. Remove the "Ratte" model and replace it with a similar sized crater model which counts as impassable terrain to all troop types.
Modifiiers - an immobilised "Ratte" adds 5 to the die roll.
How does that sound Phil??
The Ratte was designed to carry two motorcycles for scouting duties and (iirc) up to twenty infantry.
I believe it should have secondary armament of a 128mm gun and 8 x 20mm AA guns (4 single barrel and a flakvierling).
Stats for Chain of Command anyone? :d
Quote from: Ithoriel on 02 December 2013, 07:35:29 PM
How does that sound Phil??
I think that covers it nicely I. ;) ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Wonderfully brutal looking thing - but enough about Leon.
Of course, if one plays a 1946 game, the British would be armed with a new tank ...
Quote from: fsn on 02 December 2013, 08:26:23 PM
Of course, if one plays a 1946 game, the British would be armed with a new tank ...
The Black Prince!
That things awesomeness knows no bounds, but I'm a bit concerned of the amount of them that will be ordered.
Quote from: Wulf on 02 December 2013, 07:16:20 PM
Is there a Maus, or any of the E-series, available in 10mm?
;) http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7248.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7248.0.html)
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 02 December 2013, 07:33:06 PM
(don't tell me its going to be £150 though)
We're hoping to get it around the £30 mark of thereabouts. It'll depend entirely on how much resin it takes up and the costs of that.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 02 December 2013, 07:57:57 PM
I believe it should have secondary armament of a 128mm gun and 8 x 20mm AA guns (4 single barrel and a flakvierling).
Yep, the 128mm is in between the two main naval guns, and then the quad AA's go on the two raised sections at the rear of the model.
Quote from: GordonY on 02 December 2013, 08:31:03 PM
That things awesomeness knows no bounds, but I'm a bit concerned of the amount of them that will be ordered.
From the interest it generated just sitting there as a master model, I reckon if we get a painted one on display, we'll shift a fair few of them at the shows. Whether that's to the 10mm crowd, or 15/20/28mm guys wanting something a little different, it's all sales. One thing in it's favour is that you don't look at it and think 'Oh, a 10mm tank..', the size of it means it could be used in most scales without complaint.
Do you have a rough cost idea at all?
Quote from: Leon on 02 December 2013, 08:53:17 PM
;) http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7248.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7248.0.html)
Oh, nice...
QuoteOne thing in it's favour is that you don't look at it and think 'Oh, a 10mm tank..', the size of it means it could be used in most scales without complaint.
Then you look at the size of the crew hatches... (I'm already doing that with some 10/12mm tanks...)
Quote from: Fenton on 02 December 2013, 08:55:44 PM
Do you have a rough cost idea at all?
;)
Quote from: Leon on 02 December 2013, 08:53:17 PM
We're hoping to get it around the £30 mark of thereabouts. It'll depend entirely on how much resin it takes up and the costs of that.
Quote from: Wulf on 02 December 2013, 08:28:21 PM
The Black Prince!
Oh yes! YES! YESSSSS! YESSSSSSSSS!
May I have a Black Prince please Leon? :D
Quote from: fsn on 02 December 2013, 09:23:37 PM
Oh yes! YES! YESSSSS! YESSSSSSSSS!
May I have a Black Prince please Leon? :D
Oh god here we go again
(http://www.luminarium.org/encyclopedia/blackprinceinitial.jpg)
:-bd
Quote from: fsn on 02 December 2013, 09:23:37 PM
Oh yes! YES! YESSSSS! YESSSSSSSSS!
May I have a Black Prince please Leon? :D
Wot? Not an A39 Tortoise?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortoise_heavy_assault_tank
The Tortoise was fairly impractical, just a bunker buster for bunkers that never appeared. The Black Prince was actually a fairly sensible, if unimaginative, idea.
I think if I wanted a Black Prince, I'd probably just marry a Comet turret with a Churchill hull. I know the Black Prince was wider than a Churchill, but probably not noticeable in 10mm, and they never got to production, so who's to say the turret wouldn't have looked very Comet-y?
I'm sure Leon would oblige, if only fpr the peace. :D
Quote from: Wulf on 02 December 2013, 09:32:59 PM
The Tortoise was fairly impractica
This is a thread primarily about the "Ratte" - impractical would seem to be appropriate :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 02 December 2013, 07:35:29 PM
Special "Ratte" rules
A "Ratte" counts all terrain except roads as impassable terrain. Any road used by a "Ratte" counts as a ploughed field for subsequent movement.
The 240mm guns of the "Ratte" have a minimum range of (diagonal distance across the playing surface + 10cms).
At the start of every player turn roll 1D6 for each "Ratte"
On a roll of 1 to 5 the ludicrous weight of the Ratte puts such strain on the engines that the "Ratte" is immobilised for the rest of the game
On a roll of 6+ the strain on the engines and transmission causes problems similar to those encountered by early Panthers but with much more catastrophic effects due to the vastly increased amounts of fuel and ammunition on board. The engines catch fire and the"Ratte" explodes. Remove the "Ratte" model and replace it with a similar sized crater model which counts as impassable terrain to all troop types.
Modifiiers - an immobilised "Ratte" adds 5 to the die roll.
How does that sound Phil??
You've forgotten:
On a roll of 3+ the Ratte strands itself on the nearest hillock and remains seesawing gently until the end of the game.
On reaching the nearest major river the Ratte halts - regardless of whether or not there are bridges available.
I seem to remember that the front track guards on a Black Prince slope down as well so a Comet turret on a Churchill chassis wouldn't really look right even in 10mm.
If there's going to be a '1946' range we'll want Mk I Cents and Churchill Kangaroos too...basically an APC with six inches of frontal armour!
Quote from: Hertsblue on 03 December 2013, 08:59:10 AM
You've forgotten:
On a roll of 3+ the Ratte strands itself on the nearest hillock and remains seesawing gently until the end of the game.
On reaching the nearest major river the Ratte halts - regardless of whether or not there are bridges available.
Not .... forgotten ... exactly.
At the start of it's first turn it is either immobilised or explodes. At the start of it's second turn, assuming it hasn't already exploded, it rolls 1D6 adds 5 to the total and explodes on a total of 6 or more.
Additional movement restrictions seemed ... a little harsh :)
Oh come on, you all want one really!
you can always try knocking it out with the 14" rail gun
Perhaps it could be fielded as off-table Naval Artillery in BKC?
Which, to be fair, is what we've counted the Karl Gerat Morser model I have on the one occasion it was used in our games.
Hi All
The mystery poster is back - leons right hand man. Its my weird project based around having a 1946 style german infantry - done about 20 years ago, two kind designer(s) who have done walkers based on ww2 tanks. So I'll be doing it will be through out next year a black prince, tortiose and the US super heavy tank. The British infantry will be 1950's style to fit with my other pet project a 1950's British army.
Dave
Get in here before FSN...
Korea here we come!
;D
Dave, any chance of seeing my walker ? :)
Dear Dave.
I love you.
Quote from: barbarian on 03 December 2013, 12:50:32 PM
Dave, any chance of seeing my walker ? :)
(http://www.childrenstoysandgifts.co.uk/images/images250/baby-walker-st-bernard.jpg)
This it?
Quote from: fsn on 03 December 2013, 04:47:26 PM
(http://www.childrenstoysandgifts.co.uk/images/images250/baby-walker-st-bernard.jpg)
This it?
Let slip the Dogs of War
You lot are barking!
Looks a bit "Ruff" to me ! :-[ :-[
I'll get your coat as I pick up mine Will. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
This thread is going to the dogs! :P
Pass me my coat Phil, since you're over there
Quote from: Techno on 03 December 2013, 06:36:58 PM
Looks a bit "Ruff" to me ! :-[ :-[
I'll get your coat as I pick up mine Will. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Wouldnt you be both better fetching your coats?
Quote from: fsn on 03 December 2013, 04:34:23 PM
Dear Dave.
I love you.
I love you too, where can we meet ;) lets hope leon does not find out, I picked up Terry Ganders book on the British army 1980's I see they didn't throw anything away!!!!
Dave
Underneath the Centurion at Bovington?
I'm there most evenings.
Quote from: fsn on 03 December 2013, 07:16:01 PM
Underneath the Centurion at Bovington?
I'm there most evenings.
Only in the evenings?
Who does this coat belong to ?
Cheers - Phil
Is it the one with the pink unicorns? Probably mine then...
;D ;D ;D
Mine's the one with "Centurions Eat Rattes for Breakfast" chalked on the back.
=O =O =O
Ratte!!! I may have to pick one up. :D
Next up the Russian KV-6?
;D
What, the tomb of Rameses IX? ;D
Paperweight
Quote from: Hertsblue on 03 December 2013, 08:59:10 AM
On reaching the nearest major river the Ratte halts - regardless of whether or not there are bridges available.
Did it not have snorkel system so that it didn't have to ever use a bridge (as they worked out that much) so they just found a shallow bit of banking and drove across? (in theory).
Any guesses on the Miles Per Gallon?
Welcome to the forum Marcus !
I'll guess 4 gallons per mile.
Cheers - Phil
Given that the "Maus" was expected to consume just over 9 gallons per mile on roads and 25.5 gallons per mile cross country I'd suggest fuel consumption would be several times that for the "Ratte" or, at a rough estimate, more fuel than the Third Reich could sensibly have supplied without successfully taking the Caucasus oilfields intact.
Even the comparatively light-weight, at 124 tonnes, Karl Gerat 600mm Morser moving at a sprightly walking pace was expected to consume between 7 and 10 gallons of fuel per mile.
Whether from sheer impracticality or allied action I reckon it was doomed to be the world's most expensive pill-box in next to no time.
None of which will prevent tread-heads from buying quite a few of them :)
If I can find the cash I might even get one myself - as a monument to human stupidity/ objective marker for Late War games set in and around Kummersdorf!
Would far rather have seen the Sdkfz 303 "Goliath"/ Sdkfz 231 8-rad / Pz II "Luchs" / Soviet B-4 203mm howitzer / Soviet Quad AA MG (ground or truck mounted) etc. but I can understand the commercial interest in producing the "Ratte" instead.
Stroll on !! :o :o :o :o :o
Mind you.....It IS a very large bit of kit...So perhaps I shouldn't be surprised !!
Thanks for the info I.
Cheers - Phil
Is there really no 8-rad in the Pendraken catalogue? :o
To be really silly how about a P 1500 Monster please
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster)
I really want one of these :D
Quote from: mad lemmey on 04 December 2013, 04:30:50 PM
Is there really no 8-rad in the Pendraken catalogue? :o
There's a late war 234 but no early war 231/232
To be fair the main difference is the mudguards so I'll probably just get a 234 and fight the urge to get out the clippers, files, scalpel and Green Stuff!
I may or may not do a goliath for personal use.
Perhaps.
Maybe.
You'd have to have a troops of Rattes. One on it's own is fit for nothing.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 04 December 2013, 03:15:17 PM
Would far rather have seen the Sdkfz 303 "Goliath"/ Sdkfz 231 8-rad / Pz II "Luchs" / Soviet B-4 203mm howitzer / Soviet Quad AA MG (ground or truck mounted) etc.
Does no-one do a Mk IV tank in 2mm scale... ;D
(http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/imgs/sdkfz302-sdkfz303-goliath_4.jpg)
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 04 December 2013, 04:41:32 PM
To be really silly how about a P 1500 Monster please
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster)
I really want one of these :D
Now that would be fun to mould up and cast! You'd have to do it in quite a few separate pieces, and it wouldn't be cheap.
Them's not Goliaths - them's 10mm Rattes!
QuoteNow that would be fun to mould up and cast! You'd have to do it in quite a few separate pieces, and it wouldn't be cheap
looking at some of the images you can use the Ratte hull (modified) add the gun (similar to 14" rail gun) - 2 part resin cast. Do the 4 supports in metal. Simples :D.
Ratte £30, Monster say £40-£45. I'd buy one :D
plus you'd sell 10 infantry packs to man it :D
please :D
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 04 December 2013, 08:41:21 PM
looking at some of the images you can use the Ratte hull (modified) add the gun (similar to 14" rail gun) - 2 part resin cast. Do the 4 supports in metal. Simples :D.
Ratte £30, Monster say £40-£45. I'd buy one :D
plus you'd sell 10 infantry packs to man it :D
please :D
:D
Quote from: Marcust34 on 04 December 2013, 02:01:20 PM
Did it not have snorkel system so that it didn't have to ever use a bridge (as they worked out that much) so they just found a shallow bit of banking and drove across? (in theory).
Any guesses on the Miles Per Gallon?
WAsn't the snorkel on the maus? ::
"V1
The first, turretless prototype (V1) was assembled by Alkett in December 1943. Tests started the same month, with a mock turret fitted of the same weight as the real turret.[1] In June 1944 the production turret, with armament, was used for tests.[1]
The Maus was surprisingly agile for its 188 ton weight. Its minimal turning radius was 7.25 m, almost twice that of a Tiger I at 3.55m, but significantly less the 18.6 m for an M4 Sherman mid production.
The Maus was simply too heavy to cross bridges. As a result an alternative system was developed, where the Maus would instead ford the rivers it needed to cross. Due to its size it could ford relatively deep streams, but for deeper ones it was to submerge and drive across the river bottom. The solution required tanks to be paired up. One Maus would supply electrical power to the crossing vehicle via a cable until it reached the other side. The crew would receive air through a large snorkel, which was long enough for the tank to go 45 feet (13 m) underwater."
Quote from: Leon on 04 December 2013, 06:57:49 PM
Does no-one do a Mk IV tank in 2mm scale... ;D
Actually there's a Goliath in the "Axis & Allies" collectable figure range that is nominally 15mm scale but is passable as 10mm scale.
I'll post pics once I have the Sdkfz 251 from my latest order to act as the mothership.
I have the unit plus two Pendraken crew based up so far, just need the Hannomag and I'm good to go with painting.
Sdkfz 251 turned up in the post this morning - thanks Leon.
Undercoated and ready to start painting tomorrow - gales, floods and other acts of god permitting.
Centerpiece of the 1946 range, eh Leon?
Quote from: Jay Arnold on 07 December 2013, 02:26:32 AM
Centerpiece of the 1946 range, eh Leon?
Yep! We've got the Maus as well, plus some Weird War walkers to be production moulded.
8)
Nazi zombies? Werewolves in Feldmutze? Allied golems? Or not that wierd? ;D
Seriously, you need to do Japanese zombies.
And Tesla turrets for ground mounting and tanks.
Jetpack Fallschirmjaeger and Brit/US Airborne.
Native American shaman.
Baba Yaga's house with a KV1 turret.
Quote from: Jay Arnold on 07 December 2013, 04:44:25 AM
(...)
Baba Yaga's house with a KV1 turret.
I never thought about this one ! ;D
Why should 1946 suddenly open the floodgates to zombies and other weirdness? Mind you, I was born in '47 so perhaps there's something in it.... :o
The possibility of Germany fighting into '46 is fantasy in and of itself. Now you're getting bothered about Zombies and atomic-powered Tesla tanks? ;D
Besides, who doesn't like zombies? ;)
I'm guessing someone has already mentioned Infantry with NVA helmets?
Quote from: Jay Arnold on 07 December 2013, 02:52:53 PM
(...)Besides, who doesn't like zombies? ;)
I'm not fond of zombies, I must admit. :-[
But THEY are fond of you.
BRAINS !....LIVE BRAINS ! ;) ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 08 December 2013, 08:41:08 AM
LIVE BRAINS !
Zombies would starve round here, then. 8-}
Oooooh.....Nasty ! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Leon, you do realise, now you've done this, you have to do the Russian ones as well?
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?style=4&f=52&t=127848
Mark :D
NO please NO - lets stick to REAL vehicles.
:o :o :o :o :o
IanS
I did move into 10mm so that I could have some reasonable looking forces on the table.
Three Rattes, and a couple of Russian Land battleships and that's the table filled again! :'(
I reckon my 10mm Sectrets of the Third Reich game is getting closer to happening.
Will the Ratte be going on sale Leon?
If you went 6mm you could have aircraft taking off from it
Quote from: Luddite on 19 December 2013, 10:12:03 AM
Will the Ratte be going on sale Leon?
Yep, definitely, far too much time/money in it to leave it sitting around! It's currently away being resin moulded, so we're hoping to have some stock of it arriving Jan/Feb time in theory.
8)
I reckon I'm relatively safe in north-west Burma in 1944. Try getting that Ratte thing up Mount Pulebadze - no chance! :d
Quote from: Hertsblue on 19 December 2013, 11:16:33 AM
I reckon I'm relatively safe in north-west Burma in 1944. Try getting that Ratte thing up Mount Pulebadze - no chance! :d
They could paradrop it in.
Now... build the aircraft that drops it...
Quote from: Wulf on 19 December 2013, 11:18:54 AM
They could paradrop it in.
Now... build the aircraft that drops it...
When I visited Duxford in the 1990s, I saw a wooden wheel which was taller than me. It belonged to a bomber that the Germans were working on during WWI, intended to have enough endurance to bomb the US. Wikimedia Commons has a photo: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mannesmann_Poll_Wheel.jpg
Still not impressed. If you read the accounts of the Allies paradropping supplies and how often they landed well wide of the mark you'll understand why. And the parachute would require the entire silk production for the year (or more). ;D
I'm all for a bit of 'crazy tank' but this one really is bonkers ;)
I do like doing the odd conversion for the things the Germans and Allies tried out or just got to the drawing board. This is a nice site to see what they look like:
http://henk.fox3000.com/index2.htm
about half way down the main page there is a section that gives variants (real and never saw the light of day) of the main vehicles. the section is headed -
Henk of Holland Model Summary:
With vehicle pictures from several countries. A summary in pictures, not in words. It's gives information what is available on the market and the variants.
There's an interesting discussion on the Wikipedia talk page for it, about whether or not the whole thing is a hoax:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte#Hoax_Discussion
I couldn't find mention of it in a quick search through Speer's memoirs, but that's hardly conclusive evidence :-)
Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk
Quote from: Hertsblue on 19 December 2013, 11:55:19 AM
Still not impressed. If you read the accounts of the Allies paradropping supplies and how often they landed well wide of the mark you'll understand why. And the parachute would require the entire silk production for the year (or more). ;D
Paradrop? Go the Russian route and fit it with wings and a tail :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_A-40
There still remains the problem of how to get it up beyond stall-speed. Especially on unpaved airfields. ;D ;D ;D
That's a real beastie - luvvit. And with a generic (no decalling) paint job, it'd be useable for all kinds of things...hmm... :-\ :)
I'd hate to be the guy that had to work out the points value for that thing in any set of rules. All I know is it would have a lot of noughts in it. :o
I thought I'd been asleep since Christmas and it was 1st April!
Nope. Just another day at the Pendraken forum.
Speaking of the Maus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj5J_d6AMGM&feature=em-uploademail
It's all in Russian with no subtitles, and, no, he doesn't drive it around like he does all the other tanks he reviews, but, still...
French Mega Tank
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/FCM-F1.svg/800px-FCM-F1.svg.png)
FCM F1 - 100mm armour, 1x90mm + 1x45mm + 6mgs. 139 tonnes!