This weeks question jumps away from Historical debate, and into wargaming itself.
Where do you see the 10mm scale within the hierarchy of wargaming? Is it a niche scale that a lot of people will always refuse to try, or is it the future of compact, value-for-money wargaming? What are the top 5 scales people are using? And finally, what does the future hold for 10mm?
Now I know I'm asking this to a load of 10mm fans, but I'm looking for some good objective opinions here!
8)
Love them or loathe them, Battlefronts 15mm range re-invigorated WWII wargaming according to Peter Pig. It certainly got me back into historical wargames :).
At our club (Portbury Knights) 15mm and 28mm are the dominant scales. 6mm is used for CWC and a few members use 20mm for WWII. IIRC, 10mm is widely used for Warmaster Ancients but not really for WWII. This mainly due to a lot of members having fixed views with regards to 10mm and also already having 15mm battlegroups already painted. With 15mm a member can play PBI, FoW and BKC and find plenty of other players to play against.
I think therefore that 6mm and 10mm are currently niche markets, based upon my experience, that provide value for money and still look great on the wargames table.
15mm is to me what 1/72 and 1/76 was in the 70's, namely widely used and widely available.
20mm is rarely, if ever seen at our club. Suprisingly at local bring and buys, there is still an awful lot of 20mm wargames out there. Conversely 6mm and 10mm are very rarely seen.
28mm is widely used from Ancients all the way up to Sci-Fi and Fantasy, from skirmish level games all the way up to BP battles on 12'x6' tables.
As for the future of 10mm? I think a lot more coverage in trade magazines would help overcome entrenched views on scales, but a lot ultimately depends upon waht scale you friends and club already use. If I was to start again from scratch it would be 6mm or 10mm for me.
Interesting question... 8)
For me - and I am overwhelmingly (unfortunately) a solo-gamer:
When I got back into gaming as an adult (ie with my own disposable income) it was with 28mm (GW) for sci-fi & fantasy (40k, WFB, Mordheim, Necromunda) - and then GW released Warmaster: with 10mm figures: suddenly massed-battles and 'proper' vagaries of command & control were 'real'.
Over time, becoming less interested in the GW rollercoaster & more inclined to historical gaming - but *loving* the 10mm WM figures - I decided on using the core WM rules (because I loved them so much) as the basis of my gaming: which led me to NapoleonicMaster - and my first foray into Pendraken: armies for the Peninsular which I still love & play with...
In turn,that led me to Blitzkrieg Commander: and it was a no-brainer to continue with Pendraken as I was so pleased with my Naps - this led me inexorably to more & more 10mm WW2 - and then to a 'place' on Pete's moderns testing team for CWC - including some painting work for him for rulebook photos - which, in turn, led to similar playtest / painting involvement with FWC & then BKC II....
Life in 10mm is good: I've had some dabbling with WMA 10mm armies (now sold for a *serious* profit) & also a few dalliances with 2mm & 6mm where there is no 10mm available...I dream of the day when I can do *everything* in 10mm! I should also point out that I pick up quite a bit of painting commission work in 10mm (which is nice)
A bit rambling there - but 10mm is v good for a load of things...
Although I should also mention that I do like 28mm still for skirmishing - and for when I really do want to obsess over painting!
Well, I am the only 10mm collector around here. I won't say "gamer" because lots of folks enjoy gaming with my kit and I have never minded fielding both sides. If 10mm is niche, though, it's because the "old guys" are already heavily invested in other scales. I am an exception because I did a complete restart a few years ago.
The SYW start has convinced me that I am able to paint quite large armies in this scale - I was not sure just doing the WWII since it takes so few figures to make an army. After I have these lads at a really good strength, then FPW or ACW - not sure which. But I never expect to run into another 10mm player here; did in London, but then you can find anything in London.
Interesting stuff. Do you think then, that 10mm will steadily become more popular as the ranges on offer increase? Or what if there were more rulesets based around 10mm?
I think a greater range will undoubtably help, especially with core gaming areas such as Napoleonics. I have no idea as to the breadth of the Magister Militum range, but that is popular at the club for WMA. I think more army packs would certainly help based around say WMA, BKC etc.
As for rulesets, 10mm works perfectly fine for FoW, PBI and the BKC stable. I think the power of the Battlefront marketing machine makes it very hard to convince gamers to try 10mm. Some gamers percieve 10mm as not being very detailed compared to 15mm, but having seen the amazing detail on the WWII Brits, they are more than on a par.
Again, may be an article in the wargaming press showing cost comparisons, details, pics of games in progress may help change entrenched attitudes.
I don't think it's primarily a rules issue, so much as it is a relatively new scale competing with existing collections, and the usual run of factors people run into with group projects.
Going back about eight years ago or so, when I first was introduced to 10mm figures, there were two eras that commonly featured 10mm games at conventions in the States: ACW and WWII. Both are relatively big eras, and showed off the potential for the scale very well. 10mm remains one of the standard choices for ACW and is well established there I think, and is one of the top choices for WWII. Given that 10mm isn't really competing against 25mm+ figures used in skirmish games, it's really a question of competing against 5mm and 15mm figures. Before the advent of Battlefront, people were talking about selling off 15mm and going to 10mm pretty regularly; however, how many of the BF people are new to the period is hard to say, but the "package" deal of the rules and packages on store shelves would be hard to replicate. If Pendraken WWII sales are going strong (as they appear to be), then it might be a case of "a rising tide lifts all ships" and increased interest in the period eventually leaking over into increased 10mm sales as people move on. The contrast between the cost and scale and quality of the 15mm figures and the 10mm offerings might also actually help establish 10mm as the viable alternative. Thinking about the active BKC forums, the debate is pretty much between 5mm and 10mm, with 15mm out of the picture.
So, the original pair of periods seem to be staying popular, and even growing.
Since it is a relatively new scale in other periods, you're really facing the challenge of getting gamers to either give up or duplicate existing collections, or attracting new gamers. Ancients are much more tournament minded than most other periods, and so more scale dependent, and I could see that era being unfortunately a little more difficult for other scales to penetrate into. On the other hand, I think Pendraken has the right idea in focusing on the H&M period and all of its various sub-periods. There is a wide range of non-tournament gaming in these periods, and for the most part basing is pretty flexible and ground scale favors the smaller ranges - with the advantages of 10mm over 5mm showing through in the uniform detail that defines the period. Even if people already have existing collections, there is always another H&M period or sub-period to collect and play.
Having said all that ... the big question is why didn't Old Glory crush everybody else when they released their flood of ranges over a couple of years? Although they may be popular choices, I think the continuing issues are the basing style (strips versus individual figures), sometimes strangely incomplete ranges, and a bit of inconsistency in both basing and sculpting. Another manufacturer to make a big splash in 10mm recently is of course Magister Militum, and while I don't know what their impact has been, I'll hazard a guess that the simple issue of aesthetic quality has handicapped their figures. Then, in contrast, you see very good sculpts like Bend Sinister's new Austrian and Russian releases hampered by slow release schedules, doubtless a result of uncertain economic times.
The lessons? I think the success of some of Pendraken's newer H&M lines, as well as the continuing support for the SYW line, reinforces the simple truth that if you give gamers good sculpts, complete lines, and base and organize sales to play to the strength of the periods in play, they will continue to be tempted. Since 10mm is relatively new and there are compatibility issues between the few existing lines with overlaps, it is unfortunately even more important for lines to be complete. I know this places an additional burden on the producer (in contrast to say 28mm producers who can hit and miss), but while being an important issue it probably also encourages "one stop shopping" sort of brand loyalty.
In terms of spreading the word about the scale, why not encourage some articles with nice photos and maps in either print or on-line journals/forums that contrast the two different approaches that 10mm offers? Either you can stay with the larger scaled base sizes ad have more figures, or you can reduce base sizes and get more "map for the table". If you go to 10mmWorld.com and look at the "10mm TSATF" page in the Articles section, you get a (crude) idea of what I am talking about - contrasting the look of massed 10mm figures versus individual 28mm figures. In this case, where a standard 28mm unit has 20 figures, by mounting 3x 10mm figures on a base and "counting" it is a single figure for the rules, you actually get a 1:1 representation of a company on the table in less space, at no change to game play.
A long answer ... but yes, I do think that the scale will become more popular as ranges fill out.
Cheers,
Christopher
PS - just want to share something that has been a huge boon to my 10mm collections recently, and might be worth touting - recent developments that improve the time from painting desk to playing table. I've started using a combination of Army Painter spray base coats and GW finishing washes, and the impact on my painting speed has been enormous! I still paint everything I did, details etc. - but not having to paint blue for the ACW or French, or dark brown on Zulus, and so on, has been a huge help, while the ease of the GW washes for finishing is great.
Quote from: Leon on 29 June 2010, 12:44:47 AM
Do you think then, that 10mm will steadily become more popular as the ranges on offer increase?
That's my opinion
Quote from: Steve J on 29 June 2010, 07:04:06 AM
I think a greater range will undoubtably help, especially with core gaming areas such as Napoleonics. I have no idea as to the breadth of the Magister Militum range, but that is popular at the club for WMA. I think more army packs would certainly help based around say WMA, BKC etc.
I'm not sure about the size of our competitors ranges actually. We think of Magister as our main rival I suppose, but I'm sure we've got a wider variety of ranges. The two areas in which they outdo us is Ancients and Napoleonics. I know I'm slightly biased, but I think we've got the best sculpts on the market for the majority of our ranges.
More Army Packs can be done, but I'm not sure if they'd all sell? We used to do a larger range of BKC armies, with the big £70-£90 packs, but they very rarely sold, so we downsized to the current ones, which sell much better. It's a similar story with the WM Ancient/Medievals, where they don't sell much through the website, but go quite well at shows? Not quite sure why that is. I will look into different armies though, we could maybe extend the Medieval packs.
Thanks for that Christopher, lots of food for thought there.
Quote from: CATenWolde on 29 June 2010, 07:57:48 AM
The contrast between the cost and scale and quality of the 15mm figures and the 10mm offerings might also actually help establish 10mm as the viable alternative. Thinking about the active BKC forums, the debate is pretty much between 5mm and 10mm, with 15mm out of the picture.
Hopefully this will be true as more and more people start to get into 10mm and see what it has to offer.
Quote from: CATenWolde on 29 June 2010, 07:57:48 AM
Since it is a relatively new scale in other periods, you're really facing the challenge of getting gamers to either give up or duplicate existing collections, or attracting new gamers. Ancients are much more tournament minded than most other periods, and so more scale dependent, and I could see that era being unfortunately a little more difficult for other scales to penetrate into.
I always look at Ancients and think it would be ideal for 10mm? You can get just about the same number of figures as 6mm, with much more detail and 'personality' to the figures. I know Magister seem to do well with their Ancients, so maybe we need to look at extending that area a bit, and working on marketing it right. We offer discounts to the Soc. of Ancients members, so I'll get in touch with them.
Quote from: CATenWolde on 29 June 2010, 07:57:48 AM
Another manufacturer to make a big splash in 10mm recently is of course Magister Militum, and while I don't know what their impact has been, I'll hazard a guess that the simple issue of aesthetic quality has handicapped their figures.
I think the advantage we have here, is that they have more scales to keep up with, so their releases in 10mm can be quite slow. We can keep churning out the new stuff, and hopefully catch up with their variety of Ancients/Naps.
Quote from: CATenWolde on 29 June 2010, 07:57:48 AM
Since 10mm is relatively new and there are compatibility issues between the few existing lines with overlaps, it is unfortunately even more important for lines to be complete.
This is something me and Dave have spoken about, there are a few holes in some ranges which we need to fill in sooner rather than later.
Quote from: CATenWolde on 29 June 2010, 07:57:48 AM
In terms of spreading the word about the scale, why not encourage some articles with nice photos and maps in either print or on-line journals/forums that contrast the two different approaches that 10mm offers?
An article is a good idea, I think it's been mentioned before as well. It's something I'd love to do as soon as I have the time.
I'm not sure about the size of our competitors ranges actually. We think of Magister as our main rival I suppose, but I'm sure we've got a wider variety of ranges. The two areas in which they outdo us is Ancients and Napoleonics. I know I'm slightly biased, but I think we've got the best sculpts on the market for the majority of our ranges.
MM are the manufacturer of choice at the club for WMA and Napoleonics IIRC.
It's a similar story with the WM Ancient/Medievals, where they don't sell much through the website, but go quite well at shows? Not quite sure why that is. I will look into different armies though, we could maybe extend the Medieval packs.
At local shows they have ready to go army packs for loads of WMA armies which suit impulse buy purchases. They are also normally 10% off as well which always an attraction.
Quote from: Steve J on 29 June 2010, 03:10:52 PM
At local shows they have ready to go army packs for loads of WMA armies which suit impulse buy purchases. They are also normally 10% off as well which always an attraction.
We do the same thing, with the 10% discount. They're on the website as well, 13 armies for Ancients, 3 for Dark Ages, and 20 for the Medievals. I'm surprised they don't sell as much online.
Quote from: lentulus on 28 June 2010, 10:31:11 PM
If 10mm is niche, though, it's because the "old guys" are already heavily invested in other scales.
This is so true. I know of two "converts" (my regular gaming buddies) and they went through something of a rebirth: they seem to have so much more fun painting and gaming with their 10mils than they've had for years and years with their 15mm.
And hey, the best argument for 10mm Pendrakens is eBay. Type in "Pendraken" and the search result is: 0. Nobody, but nobody, dumps their Pendrakens.
I know, it's a lame argument, but I believe there is some truth to it.
Cheers,
Aart
Quote from: Aart Brouwer on 29 June 2010, 08:30:23 PM
And hey, the best argument for 10mm Pendrakens is eBay. Type in "Pendraken" and the search result is: 0. Nobody, but nobody, dumps their Pendrakens.
I've never tried that! There should be some somewhere though, we've got a customer who buys the gliders, and V1/2's, paints them up and sells them on eBay?
Quote from: Leon on 29 June 2010, 08:41:40 PM
I've never tried that! There should be some somewhere though, we've got a customer who buys the gliders, and V1/2's, paints them up and sells them on eBay?
Pro painters are to be expected - and they are welcome. But my point stands that nobody dumps their P. stuff on eBay by the dozen like they dump their 15 mils or 6 mils.
Cheers,
Aart
Quote10mm within the hierarchy of scales?
I'd say not as tall as 15s, but almost twice as tall as 6mm.
I started in 10s with Chariot Miniatures from The Guardroom in Dunstable- they were cheaper than 15s. that was 16 odd years ago. Now I am (a little) richer I am going to rebase them into far tighter formations- more to a base (and better bases), so at some point I will be ordering some re-inforcements, though I'm not sure how yours will compare size wise.
9 years ago I bought two armies from SkyTrex 1:200 for Rapid Fire. When I bought Pendraken for PBI you can really notice the difference. The infantry are same size, but the 1:200 are spindley - I think they may be in proportion and P-d stuff 'chubby', but yours looks better (and has more detail). The problem I have is vehiclesP-d PzIIIs are noticably bigger than Skytrex PzIV - I know 1:200 / 1:160(ish), but like I say the infantry are really close.
I think what kicked 10mm off is Warmaster. Despite 10s being around for years it became the next big new thing! (I waited 20 years to become an overnight success). People saw what a good game WMF was, and there were loads of Ancients/Medieval conversions well before WMA. This is when I hit 10mm properly. After 3 fantasy armies from GW, I bought a Roman army for WMA (best customer service ever was from P-d "What kind of Roman army, Republican, early Imperial, Late Imperial?", "Hollywood" "I know exactly what you mean" - and they did!)
I think people are now getting used to them. The 'niche' thing is I feel due to old hands already having 6s and 15s- its like the "So I have to rebuy all my music AGAIN?" thing with new formats, except more time consuming. I think more people will consider it as they enter a new period, like my club do - well some of us anyway. All my future 'mass battle' will be 10mm (except for one boyhood dream of peninsula 28s) The legion is 6x2 on the 40mm bases, and some friends now admit they should have spent a little extra to bulk out the standard 30 figure packs for their ancients (though Auxillary stay as 10 man bases).
The biggest problem to further expansion is the 'not played here'- as has been noted old hands have 15s so people buy 15s to match.
10s may be helped by Black Powder- as it is such scope people may be tempted to try new periods (because they already have the rules), and migrate to 10s because of cost - £60/3 army packs gets you a complete BP army (12-13 infantry bns, 4 Cavalry regts and 6 guns). It gets you 50 28mm metals (= 4 units), or 200 15mm (10 inf units at best). Also once you have painted 10mm you realise how easy and quick it is, as well as easier to store ("Very Useful Boxes" turn out to be Very Useful!).
I can see 10mm pulling customers from 6mm and 15mm
10mm could become a power house if you:
put a painted picture next to each name.
Put a base with it.
Sell in terms of rules sets.
Right now a new player has to:
Find your site.
Figure out what they need. ( I want a German mechanized infantry platoon)
Figure out what they are looking at (eg. Everyone knows what a half-track is but what is it called here and which of the half-tracks is what i want)
Figure out if they can use this for the rules they want to play. ( ok I need 3 half-tracks with mg, 1 with a at gun, 4 stands of infantry)
Convert names of units to sku numbers (type of half-track (Google search) and number of guys and what equipment to use (Google search))
Buy minis
Buy bases
paint
Play game.
what you want it to be is (GW PP and BF):
Find your site.
Figure out what they need. ( I want a German mechanized infantry platoon)
Find unit under rules type and picture to make 100% sure of purchase.
buy unit
paint
play game.
The BKC packs are great but I got to alt tab between Google search and your site a lot to figure out what is in them.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 30 June 2010, 12:43:28 AM
I think what kicked 10mm off is Warmaster. Despite 10s being around for years it became the next big new thing! (I waited 20 years to become an overnight success). People saw what a good game WMF was, and there were loads of Ancients/Medieval conversions well before WMA. This is when I hit 10mm properly. After 3 fantasy armies from GW, I bought a Roman army for WMA (best customer service ever was from P-d "What kind of Roman army, Republican, early Imperial, Late Imperial?", "Hollywood" "I know exactly what you mean" - and they did!)
I think people are now getting used to them. The 'niche' thing is I feel due to old hands already having 6s and 15s- its like the "So I have to rebuy all my music AGAIN?" thing with new formats, except more time consuming. I think more people will consider it as they enter a new period, like my club do - well some of us anyway. All my future 'mass battle' will be 10mm (except for one boyhood dream of peninsula 28s) The legion is 6x2 on the 40mm bases, and some friends now admit they should have spent a little extra to bulk out the standard 30 figure packs for their ancients (though Auxillary stay as 10 man bases).
("Very Useful Boxes" turn out to be Very Useful!).
I can see 10mm pulling customers from 6mm and 15mm
Cheers for that. It'd be nice if we could attract a share of the 15mm market. Price-wise, you get so much more for your money. And they are 'Really Useful Boxes'! I've got a load of them around the house.
Quote from: Hurley on 30 June 2010, 01:16:33 AM
10mm could become a power house if you:
put a painted picture next to each name.
Put a base with it.
Sell in terms of rules sets.
Right now a new player has to:
Find your site.
Figure out what they need. ( I want a German mechanized infantry platoon)
Figure out what they are looking at (eg. Everyone knows what a half-track is but what is it called here and which of the half-tracks is what i want)
Figure out if they can use this for the rules they want to play. ( ok I need 3 half-tracks with mg, 1 with a at gun, 4 stands of infantry)
Convert names of units to sku numbers (type of half-track (Google search) and number of guys and what equipment to use (Google search))
Buy minis
Buy bases
paint
Play game.
what you want it to be is (GW PP and BF):
Find your site.
Figure out what they need. ( I want a German mechanized infantry platoon)
Find unit under rules type and picture to make 100% sure of purchase.
buy unit
paint
play game.
The BKC packs are great but I got to alt tab between Google search and your site a lot to figure out what is in them.
Some interesting points there.
The pictures next to every code is something we are working on. I know it might seem like it's taking ages, but we are working as fast as we can through them. Hopefully the pictures people are posting on here are helping somewhat.
With bases, we've never sold them until recently, but the problem is that people want different bases depending on what rules they are using. So offering them as an extra seemed the best way to go. We could add some bases to the BKC packs I suppose, but would people want to pay more money if they have no intention of using the bases?
The same could be said for making armies based on rules. Thre are so many sets out there that you'd have to fill the site with different armies, to cater for everyone. We've put armies up for the most popular rulests (WM and BKC), but even these sell only occasionally. It seems most people prefer to build their own armies from the lists. Now there could be an argument there that they would be more inclined to buy them if the descriptions were better? We could look at changing them to show descriptions of what's in the pack, instead of a load of codes.
Another thing which could be of some use, is a short piece of info about each model. It's something we'd like to have in an ideal world, but is going to require a lot of research, and structural changes to the website, so it wouldn't be done any time soon.
Well you could easily keep the "build your own thing" you have now and just add this. As for basing BKc really does not care what size base you use so just get a base that works with an other large rule set and put them in cost is like 18 cent each add on to the miniature. No Big woop over the price and most guys will use what is in the bag. This no base thing is kinda geared toward not the new gamer it's very weird coming from the finished product world of gw and pp.
Quote from: Hurley on 30 June 2010, 06:40:19 AM
[..] coming from the finished product world of gw and pp.
Seems like a different planet to me - but then I am a newbie in wargaming and I like to work things out for myself. How hard can it be to buy some 1mm pvc sheet and cut your own bases exactly as you like them?
However, you speak from long experience and you obviously make a good point one which is usually lost on enthousiasts like myself. The point being that only ready-made stuff creates the sort of buyer mass you need to expand your business and expand your ranges.
Cheers,
Aart
Then there's the problem that some of your ranges have big holes in them.
The website does have functions to create 'Recommended Items' lists, depending on what's being bought, so we could link the bases to the various Army Packs.
I think the Dungeon Pack we're putting together will be a good indicator of whether people want everything included in one item. If it sells well, then we might look at doing the same thing with other ranges.
Quote from: Derek H on 30 June 2010, 01:36:20 PM
Then there's the problem that some of your ranges have big holes in them.
They do, and we will try to fill as many of the major ones as we can. There was a discussion on here a while back though, that can a range ever be complete?
I would guess that 10mm in behind 15s and 25s but ahead of 20s and currently tied with 6s in the hierachy of scales.
What the 10mm scale needs is more exposure. Exposure through, articles in gaming mags, adds in gaming mags, more participation games at shows, sponsoring prizes for tournaments at shows. Pictures and more Pictures of your minis is very important and you are making great efforts in that direction. The Flickr account might need to be better organized to find the minis you are looking for than what is currently setup. PR is the real need right now for the 10mm scale. You can box all the "ready made armies" you like but if you dont advertise, they will just sit there unsold. Pendraken has a great range of minis available and yes many are incomplete ranges which should be completed before brand new ranges are offered, IMHO. However, having said that, getting my hands on some 10mm Aztecs or Incas would be great ;D
The main problem with the 10mm scale other than lack of exposure, is that the main gamers as said before are already invested in 15 and 25 ranges and getting them to move to another scale is daunting. That is why exposure is soooo important, 10mm needs to grab that new gamer or one that has not already invested heavily in 15 or 25 and you grab them by advertising. Man, it would be nice if I worked for an advertising firm, but that is not the case :(
I am slowly converting 15mm players to 10mm by running games at the club providing both sides of battle with 10mm. Some are slowly purchasing some 10s to experiment with their painting skills. But it is hard to compete with 35 gamers that already have completed and painted 15mm armies for their rules they play and get them to start new armies for those rules in 10mm.
I have slowly been selling off my 15s and replacing them with 10s, I know not everyone can do that and my painting eyes are not as good as they use to be but I do like the look of 10s on the tabletop.
I believe that if the 10mm scale ranges continue to grow in both completing existing ranges and developing new ranges, more will move to 10s if they see more being used. In the UK, that would be more games at shows using 10mm. Leon, you might even think about sponsoring a 10mm DBA tournament where all armies are 10mm and have a juicy enough prize for gamers to purchase, paint and play in the tournament. DBA armies are the least expensive way for a gamer to dab his toe into the scale without investing loads of money. Once there, it might be all they need to continue with 10s :D
Sorry for the long post, I need to get back to packaging up 20 DBA War of the Roses army packs for school!!!
cya
Thanks for all that Blake!
People are right, the 10mm scale does need more exposure through the magazines and some online articles, to get people to switch over. If I ever manage to find the time, I'll have a go at doing an article, and see if I can get it into the mags.
Sponsoring a tournament could be a good idea. I've considered sponsoring some display games at the bigger shows. We'd need to find some clubs willing to get into 10mm and put on the game for us.
I've just tidied up the Flickr account a little bit as well!
I've never come across an army pack that has exactly what I want, and usually end up buying extras to round it out. I wouldn't buy a Peter Pig Black Box, because I'd end up buying extra figures, and not using some of those in the box, to get the unit I want. I'd probably spend more than any saving I made.
The GW approach is fine for figures linked to a rules set. Pendraken isn't linked to a ruleset, though many of the ranges do have pack for a specified set.
I think Hurley is being over-critical. It appears he wants a pack per organisation per rule set.
QuoteFigure out what they need. ( I want a German mechanized infantry platoon)
Find unit under rules type
So how many in the platoon - different rules have different amounts, and they are listed in the army lists.
Also what size bases? I don't want to pay extra for bases I won't use.
Quote from: Hurley on 30 June 2010, 06:40:19 AM
Well you could easily keep the "build your own thing" you have now and just add this. As for basing BKc really does not care what size base you use so just get a base that works with an other large rule set and put them in cost is like 18 cent each add on to the miniature. No Big woop over the price and most guys will use what is in the bag. This no base thing is kinda geared toward not the new gamer it's very weird coming from the finished product world of gw and pp.
Not wierd at all.
I use Pendraken figures with lots of different rule sets, each with different basing.
I source the bases i need from specialist suppliers like Warbases or ERM.
I really like that i don't have to buy a bunch of clutter i don't need. With Pendraken i get almost precisely the figures i need.
Take GW plastics. After clipping off all the figures, there's more plastic sprue left than actual figure! That's money i've just thrown in the bin! Not to mention all the other packaging... >:(
Now then, as to the OP...
I think it's undeniable that 10mm is a niche scale. We ourselves are recent converts and loving it, and there's always a lot of interest at the club.
However, i suspect that 28mm and 15mm will remain dominant given their legacy popularity and mass of investment most gamers have already given to the scales.
That said, trends are likely to change i suspect...and i've certainly seen an increase in 1:72nd plastics lately.
The rise in 10mm-focussed rule sets lately (here i'm looking at 'XX Commander' and Warmaster) will certainly help the popularity of the scale. I've also just picked up Age of Eagles and am chomping at the bit for the release of your Napoleonic ranges!!!
You'll of course know that 10m figures are army-driven (rather than display). Therefore my suggestion for Pendraken is to release ranges that supply the army lists from those two rulesets. But then, what do i know?
Quote from: Leon on 30 June 2010, 02:18:03 PM
The website does have functions to create 'Recommended Items' lists, depending on what's being bought, so we could link the bases to the various Army Packs.
I think the Dungeon Pack we're putting together will be a good indicator of whether people want everything included in one item. If it sells well, then we might look at doing the same thing with other ranges.
They do, and we will try to fill as many of the major ones as we can. There was a discussion on here a while back though, that can a range ever be complete?
No a range will never truly be complete I guess.
However, when there's still things missing that belong in each and every line squad, then it's an issue. Once all the basics are there, then the rest is cool and nice-to-have.
Derk