Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => Ancients to Renaissance (3000BC - 1680) => Topic started by: jchaos79 on 19 August 2013, 11:30:38 PM

Title: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: jchaos79 on 19 August 2013, 11:30:38 PM
I just notice that OT2 reference (ottoman foot command)  brings a cauldron carried by two men. The armybook Vlad the Impaler of warhammer brings also a pic of 28mm ottoman miniatures just with the same pose.

What was its use? where it came the source for this? was it really representative of all ottoman armies?
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 20 August 2013, 07:21:20 AM
It's sort of a scared object. Supposed to boost morale.

IanS
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Hertsblue on 20 August 2013, 08:56:46 AM
The copper cauldron (kasgan) seems to have been regarded as some kind of unit emblem in the Janissary corps. Gush mentions that each orta (company) carried a pair, slung on a pole, on parade. Both he and David Nicolle (Armies of the Ottoman Turks 1300-1774) mention that the commander of an orta bore the title "soup-maker" and the sergeants were known as "scullions". It may be that the practice harked back to Janissary origins as household servants and pages.
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Sandinista on 20 August 2013, 08:58:14 AM
As the Janissaries were all slaves of the Sultan it represented the food the Sultan provided, reminding them of their loyalty to him
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: jchaos79 on 20 August 2013, 09:00:34 AM
That's make a lot of sense, thanks for the info!
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: athens-fantasy on 20 August 2013, 09:17:53 AM
picture request!!!
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: jchaos79 on 20 August 2013, 09:50:41 AM
I'll upload some picture when when I return home from holidays, but OT2 reference is excellent
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Fenton on 20 August 2013, 09:55:12 AM
Interesting stuff :-bd :-bd
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Nosher on 20 August 2013, 05:38:42 PM
Proof (if it were ever needed) that an army marches on its stomach... :)

The BAOR marched on its Yellow Handbags ;)

And there is absolutely no truth whatsoever that all REME bods were pi**heads and that the Corps Motto Arte et Marte means 'Twist to Open'  <:-P
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Hertsblue on 21 August 2013, 11:01:07 AM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Druzhina on 25 August 2013, 06:55:27 AM

The loss of an orta's cauldron was the equivalent of a regiment losing its standard: Karakolluktçu after Jean Brindesi, 1855 (http://warfare.atwebpages.com/Ottoman/byEuropeans/Brindesi-10-large.htm)

Ranks of the janissaries were based on kitchen terms e.g. Baş Karakolluktçu = Chief Cook's Assistant (Officer).
Ladles were also used as standards (d'Alvimart). (http://warfare.atwebpages.com/Ottoman/byEuropeans/dAlvimart-08.htm)

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume and Soldiers (http://warfare.atspace.eu/index.htm)
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 25 August 2013, 11:25:27 AM
Brilliant, they're halflings in big trousers!
Title: Re: 16 cent Ottoman cauldron
Post by: jchaos79 on 25 August 2013, 11:42:18 AM
Thanks Druzhina, just thinking in building an ottoman army (is a long term proyect...) but your links are geourgous!!