Pendraken Miniatures Forum

As we all know, Pendraken do a very fine job of listening to us, the people, when it comes to adding new items to their ranges. This section of the forum is always very lively, and all around the other sections there is always something going on that has to do with the release (or non-release) of various items and ranges. I could mention some specifics, but we all know what they are.  :D

The way it works now (as far as I understand it) is that various items will be listed in posts in this section, and every once in a while, Leon will make the rounds, and add new items to what is known as 'The List', or add some extra tallies to items that are already on it. And of course, various people chatting to Dave and Leon at shows may also result in changes to 'The List'. Then, there's regular updates on the 'Most requested ranges' and 'Most requested items' to show the current rankings. And frequently items and ranges will disappear from these lists, when they get sent off to the designers.

Recently, there's been a new (and very succesful) method. For the Mongol range, a 'Kickstarter' method where people make a pledge to actually buy a quantity of the proposed new codes has been tried, and with very good results, I would say.

So I (and I guess many others too) have been wondering about what will happen next. Will there be more Kickstarter type projects? But I've also been thinking that the current system of voting could be improved. As it is, anyone can make requests, for as many items as they like. Also, the current system seems to involve a lot of bookkeeping for Leon.

So, what do you think? Should everything remain the way it is? Should there be more Kickstarter type stuff? Should voting be more formalised (and made easier to track) by employing some kind of system? A mix of these? Something else entirely?

For example, a simple addition could be a poll (like this one) for each section of the request list. Put all items that are requested on the list, but give each member 3 (or 5, or whatever) votes, with the option to recast their vote. That will mean that people may need to rethink what they would really like. In the longer run, the most popular requests should float to the top. Then, if they are added to the designer's list, they are removed, and people can vote for other items.

Note: I fully understand that in the end, it's Pendraken deciding what to make, and when. After all, it's not our business!

For the record: My own idea would be to use the Kickstarter model for special projects (new ranges), and employ a polling system for the regular additions to existing ranges.

To be honest, if they made all new things via Kickstarter, then small requests would probably not ever be fulfilled.

Quote from: Baconheimer on 27 July 2013, 06:46:49 PM
To be honest, if they made all new things via Kickstarter, then small requests would probably not ever be fulfilled.

And FSN would never get his centurion  :P

Will I ever anyway?

Quote from: OldenBUA on 27 July 2013, 10:15:20 AM
For the record: My own idea would be to use the Kickstarter model for special projects (new ranges), and employ a polling system for the regular additions to existing ranges.

I would agree with that approach, with the addition of using the kick starter approach also used for "existing ranges you would most like to see refreshed".

:)

Quote from: fsn on 27 July 2013, 11:27:03 PM
Will I ever anyway?

Didn't Leon show a pic of a green  :-\

The requests lists probably aren't perfect, but they're the easiest way of tracking all the votes from the Forum / emails / shows, etc.  Recording the votes isn't too bad, the time-consuming bit is checking whether people are voting for the same things twice, and checking to see if the item is already on the list.  Some folk may request a T-20 armoured tractor, some folk ask for a Komsomelets, so I have to make sure that the two items are recorded as the same thing.  Not the easiest job with some periods!

The Kickstarter route is certainly more tempting after the success of the Mongol campaign.  We would only ever use it for full ranges, and most likely new ranges as well, not revamps.  By the time we've got the Mongol one done and sent out, we'll be into 2014, so we'll have to see how KS is doing at that point.  I do have a concern that it will reach a saturation point and we'll see a lot less projects coming up through that method.

You may want to consider that some customers may use their "mini-budget" for various month in one time, and that could result in less sales in the future.

Quote from: Leon on 28 July 2013, 02:32:34 AM
The requests lists probably aren't perfect, but they're the easiest way of tracking all the votes from the Forum / emails / shows, etc.  Recording the votes isn't too bad, the time-consuming bit is checking whether people are voting for the same things twice, and checking to see if the item is already on the list.  Some folk may request a T-20 armoured tractor, some folk ask for a Komsomelets, so I have to make sure that the two items are recorded as the same thing.  Not the easiest job with some periods!

My original idea (though I didn't mention this) was that maybe volunteers/moderators could be found to maintain the poll(s) for each period. These would have to be people with a good knowledge of the period (and the ranges too, I suppose). But yes, you would still have to find a way to add in the votes from other sources, and that could be a problem. To my thinking, seeing the actual items requested, and in one spot, will generate a lot of 'oooh shiny, I want some of those too' reactions.

QuoteThe Kickstarter route is certainly more tempting after the success of the Mongol campaign.  We would only ever use it for full ranges, and most likely new ranges as well, not revamps.  By the time we've got the Mongol one done and sent out, we'll be into 2014, so we'll have to see how KS is doing at that point.  I do have a concern that it will reach a saturation point and we'll see a lot less projects coming up through that method.

At the moment, this approach seems to generate more traffic. There are people coming to the Forum for just the Kickstarter. But that's maybe also because it's the only way to participate? But you could be right (and as Barbarian points out) that at some point reactions will drop off, because we only have so much to spend.

To be honest i never pledged any money to a kickstarter project. I find it a dull and frustrating way of spending money. The wait is much too long for me. I rather spend money on something  can get right away  :P

No offense, but that's the way it is. To each his own i think.

It's the "oooh shiny i want it NOW"- syndrome  :D :D :D

No system works (I have several ID's on here), the current one is open to loud lobbying - as in the case of silly head gear. The kick starter system requires I have money......

It aint badly broke - so don't fix.

IanS

Quote from: ianrs54 on 28 July 2013, 11:23:48 AM
It aint badly broke - so don't fix.

You're right on the head with that one, too. If it's working, and it gets results, why change it? Seems to be the general feeling as well.

I'm OK with the present system. I think what I would like to see is an list of what's planned and for when. So, for example, if there was a page on the website that I could see that the Centurion is planned with a release date of October, then I'd shut up about it  :^o. The HaT Industrie site is quite good in this respect. 

Obviously this would be "planned" release dates, and they would be subject to revision, but at least it would give us (the artistos in the Pendraken tumbrel) some idea of how long we have to wait for our favourite goodies.

I've no interest in the Mongol kickstarter, though Ancient Egyptian, Mycenean, Hittite or superhero kickstarters would get my pledges.   

I am not sure changing the method will bring any benefits to either Pendraken or the members of the forum.

I would suggest that how quickly or slowly a request and/or a vote for a range, an addition to a range or the revamp of a range is actioned depends largely on whether or not Dave and Leon consider it a worthwhile investment in modelling,mouldmaking, etc. The better the prospects the more likely it is to become a reality, I would think. That in turn then yields new revenue, some of which can be put into less 'attractive' requests. We should also not forget that behind Pendraken are modellers who also have a workload and list of priorities.

It might be interesting to see where current ranges rank in popularity, which would give an indication of where our requests might sit in the pecking order.

Chad

The system is working pretty well, if we look at the original Top 10 Request post:

(Jun 2010)
1.  AWI Mounted Command - DONE
2.  SYW French with turnbacks - DONE
3.  FPW Personalities/Generals - DONE
4.  Falklands War range - DONE
5.  WW2 Italian artillery - DONE, NEED WORK
6.  Russian T26 - DONE
7.  Vietnam US M60's on bipod's
8.  1973 Yom Kippur range
9.  WW2 8th Army AT rifle - DONE
10. Indian Mutiny range - STARTED (shh, secret!)

...so quite a lot of completed items there, plus all the other things which have made it into the catalogue through the requests, like the Sudan camelry, the 1860/70 skirmishers, loads of stuff in the ACW range, the list goes on.  

There is a list of what's currently being worked on here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2583.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2583.0.html) which I need to update actually, but it doesn't have a set outline of what's coming when I'm afraid.  The problem with releases comes down to time unfortunately.  It takes a couple of hours to cast off enough figures for a production mould, and then another couple of hours for the mould itself, so that's a lot of time required for when yoiu get a load of moulds which need doing.  When you're trying to keep on top of casting orders, plus all the moulding/casting we do for other companies now, it slows down the whole process.

Ideally, we'd look at hiring another body next year to take on more of the casting and free me up to focus on new releases, and the promo/marketing aspect of the business.

Don't forget though, over the last 3-4 years we've knocked out about 1000 new codes, which I'd think is a lot more than a lot of other companies in our industry.

8)

Waiit Wait ...back up ....Indian Mutiny?

Quote from: Fenton on 28 July 2013, 05:05:45 PM
Waiit Wait ...back up ....Indian Mutiny?

Shhh secret! 

We started some a whlie back with a view to getting a full range done, but then they got waylaid by the Naps/ACW's/WW1, etc.  We'll go back to it at some point though, no worries there.

I smell..............

Sharpie in India

Tell me were gonna get the whole range, Heffalumps pulling the cannon, Heffalumps with swivel guns mounted in the howdahs, Heffalumps with.............

Well, you get the general idea!

I could go to town with this range.  :D :D :D

Quote from: Leon on 28 July 2013, 04:48:45 PM
The system is working pretty well, if we look at the original Top 10 Request post:

Well, I said it before, but I'll say it again:

Quote from: OldenBUA on 27 July 2013, 10:15:20 AM
As we all know, Pendraken do a very fine job of listening to us, the people, when it comes to adding new items to their ranges.

I was just thinking that maybe the current system could be improved, but with the results of the current system as they are, maybe there's no need to improve it?

Quote from: GordonY on 28 July 2013, 06:13:24 PM

Sharpie in India

Why would you want a felt tip pen on an heffalump?

Quote from: fsn on 28 July 2013, 06:32:46 PM
Why would you want a felt tip pen on an heffalump?

:D ;D :D Very good, fsn, very good...

I'd love to see an Indian Mutiny range - looking forward to this one 8)

Quote from: OldenBUA on 28 July 2013, 06:13:57 PM
I was just thinking that maybe the current system could be improved, but with the results of the current system as they are, maybe there's no need to improve it?

I could do with organising it a little better a this end I think, and I'm always open to suggestions if people think the system needs tweaking at all.  I'm wary of having the lists too 'accessible', as it then becomes very easy to flick through lists saying 'Yes please' to everything, when folk may not actually need the item themselves.

I think you should guage feeling the way you do now, but once the Dark Lord has nodded his mighty head then it shall be as he wills. We can have all the debates etc, but once the decision has been made, then that should be communicated. Not being in the business myself, except as a purchaser, I'm not crystal clear on the process after that, but there must be steps that are taken to get the product on the catalogue. It need not be too onerous, but something like:

• Placed on work plan
• Sculpting masters
• Quality checked
• FSN wants it, destroy master
• etc, etc
• Release to admiring public

That way, we (the adoring fans who throw our underwear on the Pendraken stage) will be able to see what is planned, and where our favourite goody is up to.

I realise it lifts the hem of the Dark Lord's robe, but ultimate power resides with Him. The minions may agitate, bitch, whinge, bribe and bare knuckle fight to get their favourites onto the list, but once on the list, then the fate of any individual item or range is left to Pendraken, who should have the right to change the priority, add new items, etc as their judgement of the business demands.

Quote from: fsn on 29 July 2013, 07:05:47 AM

• FSN wants it, destroy master

Shouldn't it be, delay by two years  ;D ;D ;D

Higher !......Higher !.. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil

Hrumph!

It's a great sales tactic isn't it. Delay and delay until your need is so high, that you will order one hundred pieces when it finally arrives!!!



;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

... and it's working. Everything I read at the moment seems to have Centurions in it. I also found my 1:300 Heroics and Ros Arab-Israeli figs recently. That didn't help. 

Not another range for me to get excited about !
But yes I would be really interested in an Indian Mutiny range along with all the other 19th Century collection I have slowly begun to amass

type 'centurion' into the forum search engine and you get loads of posts but none of them by fsn  ;D

Oh! Censorship is it now?  >:(

Quote from: fsn on 31 July 2013, 03:19:03 PM
Oh! Censorship is it now?  >:(

Cen-turion-ship?

:-\

 ;D ;D