Having been inactive in the hobby for quite some time, when last active I mainly used home made rules and soft plastic figures that's how long ago it was. I have recently found time to resume my interest. To date I have re based some 15 mm ACW figures (based for Johnny Reb III and never actually used) to give two corps (One union and One Confederate) for use with Civil War battles and am painting a company of 8th army and DAK for PBI rules again in 15 mm scales. The June issue of Wargames Illustrated article on the league of Augsburg Williamite wars in Ireland has piqued my interest in another period. I was initially considering doing it in 15mm but found it and an another old period the 'WSS/Marlburian' both available in 10 mm from Pendraken. now I am ( as the psychologists would say conflicted (no pun intended) which period do I do? My real wargaming period was Marlburian using Peter Laing 15mm figures (I still have the Spanish army I put together sitting forlornly in an old Fishing Tackle box in the loft somewhere) and am sorely tempted to go for this period. However it my be just my Northern Irish/Ulster-Scot's roots are drawing me to the Williamite wars (especially at this time of year lol) The crux of the matter is this 1) I have never painted, let alone seen any 10mm figures before I came to this site. 2) I will probably have to raise both sides for whichever period I elect to do as I have lost contact with old my previous wargaming colleagues and don't know what periods or scales they currently game with. therefore price is at a premium as well as the fact that space is a governing factor too (I only have a 6X3 playing surface available. The 15mm WW2 period is probably an aberration on my part as it requires a 4x4 playing area but I had no figures and the Peter Pig rules and ready made company packs were too tempting after considering the costs of the currently popular 28mm figures that seem to be in fashion for this period. I'd love to afford to do THe War of the league of Augsburg in 28mm but it is beyond my pocket and will probably remain so. Therefore could someone advise me re 10 mm scale ease of painting basing etc, I find that even 15mm can prove tricky enough with magnifiers and basing is a messy business.
thanks in anticipation
Strangely enough, a goodly proportion of us (we that throw our car keys in the Pendraken party hat) seem to be aging and dim of sight. I 'm never been a great painter, but I surprise myself at what detail I can pick out of the castings. To be fair, I've not really done horse and musket, but I have a couple of ACW armies that are half painted and I'm reasonably happy with them. Painted with acrylics.
I think 10mm is a scale that does benefit from viewing from a distance - that's my excuse anyway.
I can't comment on base sizes, as I don't use a published rule set and hence are free from the petty diktats of some inferior intellect.
In short, I find Pendraken figures a joy to paint, the ranges are excellent (just lacking some very important post WWII items) and even with my meagre ability they make a brave show.
A very warm welcome to the forum Nirnman. :-h
Cheers - Phil (You don't want advice from me regarding basing and painting the wee chaps......There are lots of folk here that are far better qualified in those subjects !)
PS....You'll get used to fsn.....He won't be happy until a certain tank is released. ;) ;D
Hi nirnman, welcome to the Forum. There are some great pics in the Painting section of what can be achieved by all painting abilities.
8)
Hi Nirnman ,
I have not painted many 15s or 20mm , i mainly paint 6mm but have been painting 10s for a few months now and they are a joy to paint. I find that you can paint them quite quickly to a good wargame standard, say 40ish figs per day ( with my aging eyes ) but the quality of pendrakens figs also allows you to go to town on the painting if that's what you want.
They are also excellent value for money in my opinion, especially the army packs, and service here is also excellent. I would suggest getting a sample pack and trying them to see how you go, you will be pleased with the quality of the sculpts. As for table size you can get a shed load of figs on a 6x3, i have painted Naps, WSS and now doing LoA which i think is my favorite period so far. As for basing, i am about to go for 6 inf / 3 cav on 30 x 20s. Hope this is of help,
kev
Unfortunately my eye sight is good, but I recommend block colour, ink wash highlight with original colour, then highlight lighter if needed, follow with piping on a number oo brush. Base sand, pva, ink, highlight, pva, flock works wonders.
Bad phøñě aurocorrections edited
thanks for the welcome. I have seen a lot of fantastic paint jobs on this forum and am positively drooling at the prospect of getting away from union blue, confederate grey/butternut and desert khaki lol.
to be honest I started a project in 15mm SYW for the imagination of Ruritania and its opponent (so long ago that I can't remember the other nation's name lol ) I have several infantry battalions each based for Knoeig Kreig rules but not the square bases as in the rules three figs in a line per base four bases making a battalion they have never seen service as that was when I dropped out of the hobby. what I relly want is a quick straw poll if you had too decide between War of the league of Augsburg and Marlburian WSS what would you choose?
Very simple, LoA are sculpted by Clib, they are beautiful, buy them.
Yes I saw those figs and they are terrific. As I stated drawn to the period at this time of year because live in N Ireland lol but was never keen on pike and shot warfare how do you shelter the shot by the pike against cavalry on a table top?
I wont say anything about painting excpt that these models allow for a great deal of detail without using magnifiers, they are great to paint up. I am however a WW2 freak so most of my painting is in the form of khaki and greenish colours, so some difference with what you will be painting. I have some ACW though :p
For the basing i will however say that i love working with vallejo dark earth texture colours, wich is pretty easy to paint on and highlight once dry. Then just pva some static grass/flock on and finished!
example:
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff441/petercooman123/DSC02606_zps0b602f73.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/petercooman123/media/DSC02606_zps0b602f73.jpg.html)
Have never used the Vallejo texture paint always used to use own mix of polyfilla, sand and paint. now using four step process, 1. polyfilla, 2. pva glue and sand, 3. paint and drybrush,and 4 Apply static grass with homemade applicator made after seeing a Utube video. must try some texture paint once period and scale decided upon. I like last hussar's figures especially the numbers as when last did Marlburians the battalions had 48 figures each
Hi Nirnman, as a comparative newbie here I'm not sure if I'm one of those referenced as "aging and dim of sight" but the description certainly fits!
I find that the smaller the figures the less detail you need to paint to make them look good. The problem with many of the photo's on this site is that they are taken as if you were looking at them from a distance of about four inches instead of from the four feet that's more normal when actually playing. That said, some of them look worryingly good even from four inches away!
I prefer the smaller sized figures so as to get more figures on a base without breaking the bank and they really aren't any harder to paint.
It is however surely a sign of incipient madness that I am thinking of adding to my 20mm, 10mm and 6mm WW2 Eastern Front armies with a 1:600th scale version too. "Nurse! Nurse! I can't paint properly, I'm stuck in my jacket ... and it feels like the arms are on backwards!!" ;D ;D ;D
I was almost tempted to try WLOA in 28 mm after seeing the pictures in June's wargames illustred but my scots heritage wouldn't justify the expense that's why looking at alternatives. only wishi had time and cash to do both WLOA and marlburian in 1omm the scale lends itself to big battalions
Hi,
Up until a couple of years ago I was a confirmed 28mm and 15mm freak, and I mainly played WW2. I found Pendraken, and tried my hand at 10mm, and dare I say I sound 10mm quicker and easier than 15mm to paint. So much so I ve not painted any 15mm for about 18months now, and more importantly have branched out and have had a crack at AWI, Ancients, and more recently 100 Years War forces as I ve got more and more confident as a painter:
You can see a few examples below:
(http://data8.blog.de/media/126/7021126_2f1e96f373_m.jpeg)
(http://data7.blog.de/media/777/6458777_f1e668a13b_m.jpeg)
(http://data8.blog.de/media/011/7100011_ae0590690b_m.jpeg)
Advice for what it is worth, is paint in block colours, wash with GW Sepia wash or similar, highlight with the original colour and then lighten up slightly and apply a final highlight. Basing is similarly simple, mixed sand and a bit of grit, dont paint it just wash with GW Sepia, apply a thin layer of Vallejo Buff to larger stones, add flock, a couple of bushes and your done.
Theres plenty of help out there on the forum, just ask.
Oh and dont forget the mantra, paint the unit not the miniature :D
Cheers,
Craig
Tiny Terrain Models
Just remembered, I undercoat in white and go bolder (in terms of colours) than I would in 15 or 28mm. I think of it a bit like turning up the contrast on the telly, it just help them pop of the table a bit!
sound advice and I've rediscovered my hand at painting, 15's so far I think i'll try a sample pack of 10's and see how a big unit looks at this scale. probably marlburians as I have always found gluing pikes, flags etc to 15s or above messy. I always replaced the flag staffs and spears on fifteens with wire as found them to easily bent and broken
Hi Nirnman! :)
First off I'll echo what fsn said - the Pendraken sculpts allow for blocking in a way other 10mm ranges don't, if you're a beginner you can still be effective at this scale.
I've painted uncountable 6mm figs and that's given me a good grounding, moving into 10mm I now have more room to paint, so if I could give 2 recommendations; firstly undercoat in a 'near black' (vallejo black grey is good).
Secondly, don't be afraid of using bright colours ie - if you want to paint a scarlet coat, go a shade lighter than you normally would then highlight with something a shade lighter than that.
Sounds risky but it's the method I've adopted and so far it's not been knocked down.
The brutal truth is......... if you're new to small scale then prepare for a good few mishaps, the gorgeous truth is.........it won't cost you much with Pendraken figs.
As a final word......crack on, make mistakes, get better than you expect to before you expect to and don't be afraid to try something that seems complicated - at this scale (if you have the patience), you'll quickly overcome it.
Cheers
Ry
Welcome Nirnman! I, like you, had 20+ years pass by when I rediscovered miniature gaming. I was a staunch 15mm guy but have moved to 6 and 10mm because I like 36-48 figs per battalion. I am also a huge WSS/GNW fan. I started painting tens at the age of 47 and was surprised at how nicely Pendrakens paint up. Dive in, try a few packs and have fun. I will say that going the way of the Glorious Revolution is that you may be limiting yourself. Expand into the Nine Years Wars and WSS and a whole world opens up.
I am ashamed to say I have lately been tempted with the Warfare Miniature 28mm's stuff....
Brian
Hi Nirnman. I have to agree with Grenadier that the WSS provides far more scope than the LoA. The figures are perhaps not as good as Clib's wonderful LoA figures, but they are by no means negligible and they look well en masse.
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/Hertsblue/Marlburian/P7300151.jpg)
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/Hertsblue/Marlburian/P7300157.jpg)
yeah it was warfare miniatures figures that put me into the mood to do the glorious revolution and then I saw the availability of stuff in 15 and 10 mm. I was initially drawn to 15 but am definitely edging towards 10 and the pendraken figs are sooo tempting. now I only need to find a decent (make that simple) rule set that will allow for big battalions. That''s where 25/28/30 loos it for me 18 to 20 figure battalions while looking great if well painted just look company sized and in my mind should be reserved for skirmish gaming. I still have sitting on my shelves 36 ECW new model and 48 men Napoleonic Austrian battalions in what was then large 25mm painted and never fought as that was when I left the they at least look rightish especially when facing 12 or so sized fig other units.
AS to rules so far I've looked at Maurice, Corporal John and a few other sets to see if I can find a simple (easy to understand) set for this period. I guess I was spoiled in that back when active most rules we used where home made (not that they weren't effective and FUN to play) 'Bayonet' (Napoleonic) was about the only commercial set used in my group.
Hertsblue I love your figures and see you have them base in five six men blocks for the infantry and in six man squadrons for the cavalry. that is the effect that i'm looking for if I can find a suitable rule set that allows for this. May I ask what set you use and how easy is it to operate and if suitable for solo play if I can't find opponents in my area?
BtW I notice that you only use two flags for your French foot back when I first started using Peter Laing figs our group had Three flags for the French Two drapeau d'ordannce and one colonel's colour while the British had only two the kings and regimental colour it certainly looked effective on the table.
I must look out the old marlburian figs and post a few pics so that todays gamers can see what it looked like in the past. I remember that the worst flag I ever had to paint was for a battalion of Gardes Suisse in this scale as every quarter of the flag had a different order for the piles wavy unlike normal Swiss regiments where each quarter was identical
WSS rules, well you could do worse than Might and Reason by Sam Mustapha, number of figures on the base irrelevant (means cram as many as you like onto the base, 60mm x 30mm, means a whole heap of 10mm) 2 bases to the unit, available as a PDF from the authors website, about £11 (dunno what that is in dollars). Also covers the 7YW, but thats it, its very period specific, the only bad thing I've read about it is that the Prussians are pretty much unbeatable, so simple, choose 2 armies so that neither are Prussian. I've got it, read it but never played it, only because of my ADD, or as I like to think of it my "Oh SHINEY!!!" syndrome, at the moment I'm struggling with building some 1:1200 Nappy ships and some 1:600 Ancient galleys along with 15mm Orcs for HOTT. Who said that one project at a time was sensible?
What about Age of Honour by the people who did Age of Eagles?
http://www.ageofeagles.com/Pages/ScenarioBooks.aspx
Quote from: Nirnman on 19 July 2013, 08:48:47 AM
Hertsblue I love your figures and see you have them base in five six men blocks for the infantry and in six man squadrons for the cavalry. that is the effect that i'm looking for if I can find a suitable rule set that allows for this. May I ask what set you use and how easy is it to operate and if suitable for solo play if I can't find opponents in my area?
BtW I notice that you only use two flags for your French foot back when I first started using Peter Laing figs our group had Three flags for the French Two drapeau d'ordannce and one colonel's colour while the British had only two the kings and regimental colour it certainly looked effective on the table.
I must look out the old marlburian figs and post a few pics so that todays gamers can see what it looked like in the past. I remember that the worst flag I ever had to paint was for a battalion of Gardes Suisse in this scale as every quarter of the flag had a different order for the piles wavy unlike normal Swiss regiments where each quarter was identical
After years of hunting around various basing systems I opted for the square 20 x 20mm variety as the most flexible - you can make a reasonably convincing column of route or a line of battle from them. Each "element" represents 100 infantry so the number of elements varies with nationality. My Bavarian battalions have six elements whilst my British and Dutch, with their platoon-firing organisation, have eight - albeit with fewer figures per base. Likewise, the squadrons vary from five figures (French) up to seven (Danish Lifeguards).
You may well be right about the number of standards per battalion. At the time (about seven years ago) I had limited info on the subject and as I was hand-painting the flags I drew the line at two each. In point of fact, I now believe that there was only one colonel's colour per regiment, the second and subsequent battalions carrying two drapeaux d'ordonnance.
As for rules, I use my own
Corporal John rules. If you go to http://rulesdepot.net/index.html (http://rulesdepot.net/index.html) you can view and download them free.
I downloaded Corporal John but was put off to find that it stated that pike element must be fielded for every four elements of musketeers. I didn't see any pikes in your units so are you treating this as optional? I was going to use a 30x 30 base as I have a lot of spare peter pig bases in this size but 20x 20 seems reasonable. I can understand the reasoning for the different number fo elements by nationality/firing system but how did you determine the number of bases/elements for which nationality I skimmed through the rules but didn't see any nationality tables?
You're right about the flags but back when I started we just made our regiments one battalion strong and three flags for the frogs, etc looked the part. if one was being truly accurate yjeir is a case for each company to have its own flag and unless scaling at one to one that is unfeasible.
Hertsblue have just re skimmed through my pdf of Corporal John and see where you are coming from on base size and basing. However just noticed I had no appendix which probably details who use platoon fire etc and cannot find the quality factor for troops anywhere either I must have got a duff download.
I'd definitely stick with 10mm.
Very cost effective if you're gaming on a tight budget. Like yourself I've got a large collection of both 15mm and 28mm armies. Even though the 28mm stuff looks impressive once painted, the sheer cost and time can sometimes prove frustrating. For example it's taken me around three years to get (albeit) a very large French Napoleonic Army, and with a fair few Perrys plastics thrown in it's still a lot of money invested.
When you consider that a twenty four man (metal) regiment would likely set you back about £25 at the very least - whereas the same price would get you a whole Pendraken 10mm starter army - it's a veritable bargain.
I'm also the same when it comes to space, and being able to play a decent game within certain confines is important. Unfortunately most of my 28mm games had to wait for the space available to me at my local club, but now in 10mm I can run through a game whenever I want in the modestly sized back room.
On the subject of gaming, I wouldn't be surprised if you end up bumping into someone on one of the many gaming forums who doesn't live too far away (you'd be surprised). Also having mentioned that you live in N.I. if you find yourself passing through Belfast you could always swing by "The Modellers Nook" ( 17 Winetavern St Belfast BT1 1JQ
028 9023 3862). I usually drop by when I travel over to Belfast. The guy who runs it is a lovely bloke and I'm sure he'd be happy to put up a notice asking for other gamers interested in your specific periods. He usually deals in plastic vehicle kits, but has also started stocking figures. Last time I was there I had a long discussion with a fellow customer on painting French Napoleonic uniforms!
Belfast?...I'm there!...So is Irregular Wars..well close enough to Belfast anyway
Here is some of the WSS I painted up about 10 years ago for an aborted project...
(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/SteveW_04/n_a.jpg) (http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SteveW_04/media/n_a.jpg.html)
(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/SteveW_04/n_a1.jpg) (http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SteveW_04/media/n_a1.jpg.html)
nice figures fenton what rules were you going to use? and Belfast definitely not!!am from outside it. Newtownards actually. Friedland know Joe in the modellers nook quite well used to game with him years ago. have all but lost contact with those I gamed with back the work and other things got in the way now redundant and with time on my hands hoping to pick up again.
Well UMS is still going once a month, and I know plenty of gamers are prepared to have a go at anything and could be persuaded...
good grief it still is! when and where does it meet now?
Quote from: Nirnman on 19 July 2013, 08:48:47 AM
if I can find a suitable rule set that allows for this.
Rules? Ah, for free and easy I would Google "Blenheim 2004" and download their set. Others using battalion size units are, Baccus Polemos WSS(there is a new version in the works) and GNW sets, the Pike and Shot Society's "Captain General", League of Augsburg's "Beneath the Lily Banner", Mustafa's "Maurice"... what am I missing?
All have pros and cons as to operating systems, playability, realism etc. The latter two are fairly new and very popular but not necessarily the best, IMHO. Most are flexible as to basing.
I am staunchly against figure removal to portray casualties and the Polemos rules fit my bill. The others using figure removal can ,of course, be modified to just using a tally sheet for each unit. Also, Baccus has great free info on uniform colors and flags and the Wyre Forest club has great OOB info on their site.
Brian
Quote from: Nirnman on 19 July 2013, 04:21:37 PM
Hertsblue have just re skimmed through my pdf of Corporal John and see where you are coming from on base size and basing. However just noticed I had no appendix which probably details who use platoon fire etc and cannot find the quality factor for troops anywhere either I must have got a duff download.
No, you're quite correct. It appears that when I uploaded the latest version I forgot to include the appendices. :-[ Apologies. I will get that fixed within the next day or so.
As for the pikes question, that only applies where a musket-armed unit is not equipped with bayonets. Bear in mind that the rules also cover the LoA and earlier pike-and-shot periods. In the WSS, when the pike is falling out of fashion, the units may be entirely armed with musket and bayonet.
Ah thanks for that clarification especially when the must was in bold and I found a class category on another set of rules Fusilier by the same person would it be the same do you think?
UMS meets in St Johns Church on the Castlereagh Road..its near the top just after Montgomery Road if your going via the Dual carriage way. It still meets the last Saturday of the month.
Richard Clarke of the Two Fat Lardies is coming over for the August meetup
Found it I have a 2day calligraphy workshop next weekend( last one in July) but I might try and get the for the August meeting what time does it start.
No idea at the minute..Usually its a 11am start, so suspecting it will be something similar
thanks I might see you there then.
Going back to basing I have found that the Baccus system workd very well with 10mm figures. Other types of flock, stones and clumps can also be added, but the basic glue, grit and paints work very well, see below:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/Figurephotos2011/FPWphotos10mm/IMG_0199.jpg)
lovely pic you don't polyfilla/spackle the base first? I find that a real curse to do and what size of tuft have you used?
Nice stuff DP, they look great! ;)
Mollinary
Just a layer of PVA glue and then dip in the Baccus fine grit. When dry wash with their dark brown wash. Again when dry, drybrush with their three successive lightening shades of colour. They also produce a short tuft static grass, but I also use a light Spring green flock and MiniNatur tufts which are their 727-21 Long tufts spring. These tufts are actually a fair bit shorter than their others, which I use for 28mm models. They are obtainable in the UK from www.internationalmodels.net
Quote from: Nirnman on 20 July 2013, 10:29:29 AM
Ah thanks for that clarification especially when the must was in bold and I found a class category on another set of rules Fusilier by the same person would it be the same do you think?
Yes, that's me too. You can use those catagories if you wish. They will work.
right thanks for the info
Joe at the Modellers Nook stocks some tufts etc