Hi all,
My own interest in the zulu war was sparked by this film, as I got older and began researching I discovered that so much of what we see on film is the directors own artistic licence at work.
I thought I'd share a few of the most common misconceptions and clear them up.
MYTH - The garrison defending Rorkes drift was Welsh.
Not so, according to the known birth places of the B company part of the garrison, 47 were English, 13 Irish, 5 welsh, 4 Scots, 1 French (the rest are recorded unavailable but it can be assumed that most were English/Irish).
MYTH - The garrison defiantly broke into a rendition of 'men of harlech' in response to the zulu war song.
Not so, the first draft of the song was made in 1881 at the earliest, almost 2 years after the battle.
MYTH - Colour sgt Bourne ('cos we're 'ere lad') was a grizzled hulk of a veteran
Not so, Bourne was indeed a c/sgt but he was also only 24 years old and 5ft 4in (he was one of the youngest c/sgt's in the army at the time though, and ended up a Lt.colonel.
MYTH - Private Hook was a malingering, alcoholic, insubordinate thief under arrest at the time of the battle.
Not so, Hook was a teetotal, stand-up member of the company, was not under arrest and was in no way insubordinate, he was in fact an officers man-servant.
MYTH - The zulus used martini-henry rifles captured at Isandlwana against the garrison.
Not so, Of all the gunshot wounds sustained by the British, not one was caused by a martini bullet, those recovered from wounds were all crude home-made musket balls.
MYTH - Chard and Bromhead locked horns over who was in command.
Not so, When Major Spalding (not in movie) left the post in the early afternoon he consulted his army list and appointed Chard in command on the spot, what is even less known is that neither Chard nor Bromhead were actually in charge of the defence - that responsibility fell to Comm Dalton who organised the fortifications and appointed the men to their positions.
MYTH - Rev Witt and his daughter arrived from Cetswayo's kraal and made a nuisance of themselves trying to take charge of and evacuate the sick.
Not so, Witt was never at Cetswayo's kraal and his daughter was never with him at the post.
In fact Witt was at the post early on (it was actually his home and church - the buildings were part of the swedish lutherian mission), upon hearing news of the defeat at Isandlwana he fled the post and went of in search of his family who were staying with relatives some miles away.
Nor did Witt bring about the desertion of the native contingent, they fled of their own accord when a mounted detachment from Isandlwana - which had stopped at the post, fell back after a brief tangle with the approaching zulus.
MYTH - Frederick Scheiss (the balding, middle-aged chap with a crutch) was a nutjob who went about the post walloping zulus with his walking crutch.
Not so, yes he did have a foot injury (and got shot in the same place during the battle) but he was by no means an invalid.
Scheiss actually manned the ramparts and at one point won the VC as he climbed over and outside the barricade and killed 3 zulus firing at the defenders from a nearby ledge.
Nor was he the man he appears as in the movie, he was only 23 at the time of the battle, sadly he fell into poverty after the war and accepted free passage on a Royal navy vessel sailing for Britain in 1884 only to die and be buried at sea aged only 28.
MYTH - The zulus returned on the morning of the second day to sing a song saluting the bravery of the garrison before retiring.
Not so, The zulus had not intended to leave, they were there to take the post, they left upon sighting Lord Chelmsford and the remains of his column returning to the post from Isandlwana.
It is likely, given the defenders lack of ammunition, that had Chelmsford not returned, the zulus would have taken the post that morning.
That's a few of them, you'll find many more through even light research into the battle.
Still my favourite film of all time though!! :)
Cheers
Ry
I found these about Chard and Bromhead
As the officers in command, Chard and Bromhead were singled out for particular praise. However, some of their fellow officers resented the plaudits bestowed on the pair, believing that they merely performed their duty by defending the outpost. Chelmsford's successor, Sir Garnet Wolseley, described the praise as "monstrous". A bemused Clery remarked that "Reputations are being made and lost here in an almost comical fashion... [Bromhead is a] capital fellow at everything except soldiering" while Lieutenant Henry Curling, who was also at Rorke's Drift with Bromhead after the battle wrote, "It is very amusing to read the accounts of Chard and Bromhead... Bromhead is a stupid old fellow, as deaf as a post. Is it not curious how some men are forced into notoriety?"
Some of Chard and Bromhead's superiors, however, were resentful of the adulation bestowed on the pair. Wood took a particular dislike to his new subordinate. Unimpressed with his temperament and sceptical of his role in the battle, he denounced Chard as a "useless officer" and "a dull, heavy man, scarcely able to do his regular work". Lieutenant General Sir Garnet Wolseley, who thought the desperate defence of the Rorke's Drift was merely a case of "rats [fighting] for their lives which they could not otherwise save" presented Chard with his VC on 16 July. Likely influenced by Wood, he subsequently described Chard as a "more uninteresting or more stupid-looking fellow I never saw
Cheers Fenton, that's interesting to note.
I wonder if those officer accounts are tinged with jealousy, Queen Victoria became quite close to Chard in the years following the battle and she described him as 'a very interesting and charming fellow'.
That's somewhat at odds with the officers who spoke of him.
Personally, I'm inclined to believe Queen Victoria mainly on the basis of the conduct of the regular officers in scapegoating Durnford for the Isandlwana defeat.
Afterall, how stupid can a fellow be who has graduated as an engineer officer in HM forces?
Bromhead, much the same - VC's and public adoration can rouse envy.
Well to be honest I think the awarding of VC's ( and yes the men at Rourkes Drift were brave) was a bit of a cover up for Isandlwana
I think I read or heard somewhere that most of the VC's awarded were sold by the men after they left the army as the pensions were so bad ( if there were any)
"Afterall, how stupid can a fellow be who has graduated as an engineer officer in HM forces?".. Hmmmmm I will let those on here who have served answer that
Some truth in that, undoubtedly the number of VC's won was not in keeping with other battles and the troops defending didn't really have any choice in whether they fought or not so yes I agree, a definite cover-up, especially as only 1 VC was awarded for Isandlwana (until 1907 posthumous melville/coghill) where many more desperate escapes and acts of heroism took place.
Some of the men sold their VC's after returning home - poverty the culprit in all cases, though extraordinarily the destitute scheiss kept his even though he could hardly afford to eat!
A couple were also stolen, most famously from the coat of Hook whilst he was a cloakroom attendant at the V&A museum but were later replaced.
Cheers
Ry
Brilliant movie.
Nothing to do with reality but brilliant all the same.
I always felt that a historically accurate remake would be just as marvellous - given the actual heroism by both sides on the day.
Well they're not so much myths but stuff made up by the screenwriter etc. Shows the power of the cinema thogh and why perhaps we should worry about 'Hollywood' being accepted as the truth. Having said that I love 'Zulu' despite the inaccuracies same with numerous others particularly 'A Bridge too Far'
If you are ever near Churcham in Gloucestershire
http://twomarshals.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/pte-henry-harry-hook-1373-b-co-24th.html
The VC is a singularly bizarre award, which does appear to be given fairly randomly, or typically where it's politically expedient to do so.
That of course is not in any way to denigrate the actions of the men to whom it is awarded.
Its just when you read despatches concerning the awards, and other similar but 'lesser' awards, you wonder sometimes how these decisions are made.
The VC is awarded for:
'Most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy'.
Which leads one to wonder, is there any soldier who's ever been 'in action' who doesn't deserve one?
Rorke's Drift saw an inordinate amount of VCs awarded i would suggest for two reasons; the valour displayed on the day by men who could have run but didn't (although shoukld they not all have received one?), and the need for the politicians to provide a well-lauded 'victory' to obscure the disaster at Isandlwana (when our troops apprently DID run).
One you all missed - there are at least twice as many British casualties in the film as there were in the battle.
IanS
Plus:
Myth that all the NNC troops fled:
While most did, about 10-11 Africans stayed with the British.
Myth that the NNH fled:
Actually they did, but not as portrayed in the movie. They actually skirmished with the advancing Zulus for a brief period, but exhausted from the previous day and having expended almost all their carbine ammunition they left the scene.
Myth - the Zulus were attacked with a cattle stampede:
They were in the film, but in reality there were no cattle at the station. The reason the cattle were in the movie was to get round the South African apartheid regime's insistance that the black Africans in the movie weren't to be paid. Stanley Baker wrote the scene in and gave the cattle to the Africans in lieu of payment.
I heard that the South African army surrounded the set in case of trouble
If you listen, the Zulu Battle Cry is the same as the one used by the Germans in Gladiator. Maybe someone should game out Zulus vs. Imperial Romans. :-\
I'm not having it. If Michael Caine says it was Welshmen in immaculately pressed scarlet, then that's good enough for me.
He's never let me down before. Remember that documentary that he did about a bullion robbery using British cars somewhere in Europe? Who can forget that time he parachuted into England to murder Churchill, or a few years later when he led XXX Corps to Arnhem?
No, my friends, if Michael Caine says it's so, then it's so.
I believe he's going to make another film about war in South Africa, in which he plays an artillery commander whose battery mistakenly shells British troops of the crest of a kop. It's named after the cry of anguish he raises when he sees what his guns are doing. It's called (can you guess?) "You're only supposed to blow the bloody Boers off!"
Quote from: fsn on 25 June 2013, 08:04:20 PM
It's called (can you guess?) "You're only supposed to blow the bloody Boers off!"
AAARGH !! #-o
But very good fsn !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: fsn on 25 June 2013, 08:04:20 PM
I'm not having it. If Michael Caine says it was Welshmen in immaculately pressed scarlet, then that's good enough for me.
He's never let me down before. Remember that documentary that he did about a bullion robbery using British cars somewhere in Europe? Who can forget that time he parachuted into England to murder Churchill, or a few years later when he led XXX Corps to Arnhem?
No, my friends, if Michael Caine says it's so, then it's so.
I believe he's going to make another film about war in South Africa, in which he plays an artillery commander whose battery mistakenly shells British troops of the crest of a kop. It's named after the cry of anguish he raises when he sees what his guns are doing. It's called (can you guess?) "You're only supposed to blow the bloody Boers off!"
;D ;D That's a man who gets about.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfzxX6h85eFD4DQYgrx28x7pPIAwmteqH7eYDZCUf72l3NeLx1YQ)
ERE!!
Are you talkin' abaaht me squire?
Quote from: Luddite on 25 June 2013, 03:47:31 PM
The VC is a singularly bizarre award, which does appear to be given fairly randomly, or typically where it's politically expedient to do so.
That of course is not in any way to denigrate the actions of the men to whom it is awarded.
Its just when you read despatches concerning the awards, and other similar but 'lesser' awards, you wonder sometimes how these decisions are made.
The VC is awarded for:
'Most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy'.
Which leads one to wonder, is there any soldier who's ever been 'in action' who doesn't deserve one?
Rorke's Drift saw an inordinate amount of VCs awarded i would suggest for two reasons; the valour displayed on the day by men who could have run but didn't (although shoukld they not all have received one?), and the need for the politicians to provide a well-lauded 'victory' to obscure the disaster at Isandlwana (when our troops apprently DID run).
The other factor that often influences the award to "other ranks" is whether or not there was an officer present - just to make sure the hoi-poloi are not making it all up.
"Zulu Dawn" was closer to the reality of Isandlwhana than "Zulu" was to Rorke's Drift. Yet the latter is the far better film with tension, action, acting and of course the dramatic film music and enhanced with Ivor Emmanuel singing Men of Harlech!
Quote from: Baconheimer on 25 June 2013, 07:27:40 PM
If you listen, the Zulu Battle Cry is the same as the one used by the Germans in Gladiator. Maybe someone should game out Zulus vs. Imperial Romans. :-\
A poster in this TMP thread (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=2295) says it was done as a tribute to the earlier film.
It also featured in my 21st birthday - my brother-in-law led us in a Zulu chant while we were in the pub :)
Quote from: Russell Phillips on 27 June 2013, 09:52:00 AM
A poster in this TMP thread (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=2295) says it was done as a tribute to the earlier film.
It also featured in my 21st birthday - my brother-in-law led us in a Zulu chant while we were in the pub :)
Aye, Ridley Scott named Zulu as one of his all time faves and wanted to pay homage.
When I first sat down to watch Gladiator my jaw dropped with disbelief at what seemed to be laziness by the crew in poaching the zulu chant and it tainted the film for me.
However, finding out the reason makes it all okay, I've seen Gladiator 5-6 times now. :)
That's the least of the problems with Gladiator.
Zulu on More 4 this afternoon then a bit of a break and Zulu Dawn on Channel 5
watching the F1 qualies though.....then there's the f****ing tennis.... which stop most of you seeing it.
IanS
Yeah, no chance of me watching them live but they've gone into record in the Sky planner
Got 'em both on DVD. They were going cheap. <:-P
Really interesting thread...
QuoteWell to be honest I think the awarding of VC's ( and yes the men at Rourkes Drift were brave) was a bit of a cover up for Isandlwana
... and yes, totally correct; it was to cover the embarrassment of their earlier botch up.
They also didn't use anywhere near Rorkes Drift as it was too dusty and brown. They chose somewhere with a lot of green grass sothat there would be a nice contrast betwen the red of the tunics and the surroundings.
There was also one of the company that ended up outside of the compound for the whole battle hidden up inside a brick chimney and another of the Natal native police who spent part of the battle one the wrong side of the mealie bag wall.
Then when the hospital fell the survivors had to cross an area between the new defence lines and the hospital. This was dangerous as the Zulus could get to them.
Actually it all took place in North America. The British wore blue and rode horses and they were wiped out to a man, not by Zulus but by pesky redskins.
Quote from: sixsideddice on 12 July 2013, 06:29:22 PM
Really interesting thread...
... and yes, totally correct; it was to cover the embarrassment of their earlier botch up.
It was a disaster, but in what way was the battle a 'botch up'?
..... Isandlwhana
Bless you!
:D