Hi,
I dont know how many of you have seen the info on the forthcomming Too Fat Lardies WW2 Skirmish rules "Chain of Command" but I think they look a bit good :D
I ve done a quick overview with a few links to overview videos and podcasts on my blog:
http://wargames.blog.co.uk/2013/05/08/incomming-chain-of-command-too-fat-lardies-15898476/
Definately thinking of trying this is 10mm.......get ready for another order Leon!
Cheers,
Craig
Tiny Terrain Models
Quote from: TinyTerrain on 08 May 2013, 09:42:23 PM
Definately thinking of trying this is 10mm.......get ready for another order Leon!
:-bd :D
Sounds interesting Craig so will have plenty of time to chat about this on Sunday.
Very impressed with what I've seen so I've put a report on my Blog:
http://wwiiwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/chain-of-command.html
I've been watching this one with interest as have club mates as the next set of WW2 Skirmish worth having.
Very impressed with what we have seen so far and personally I'll be looking to use these for 'proper' WW2 skirmish and still using Bolt Action for hollywood-esque type WW2 games.
I'm one of the play-testing group and I can say it's absolutely first class.
Will be running a demonstration of the game at Wappinshaw in Glasgow on June 1st.
I'm envious Derek!
Hello
May be it's because english is not my native language, but I really don't like videos for new products. ( in our hobby, or even worse for professionals products I have to learn.)
I prefer to read, while drinking coffee/beer, listening to my jazz radio.
Is it just me ? :-\
Quote from: ronan on 09 May 2013, 09:55:48 PM
Is it just me ? :-\
Probably. Most people talking about the videos seem to have liked them and found them useful.
I found the videos really, really useful. I can see how the game plays and whether it is the sort of game I would enjoy playing, which in this case it is. Too often I have bought rulesets that people have raved about, only to be disappointed in them (Force-on-Force a prime example). This way I'm unlikely to shell out my hard earned cash only to regret it later.
I was lucky enough to spend an hour with the Lardies at Salute watching this being and it was brilliant. Ive been looking for a skrimish game for WW2 (I have some nice Artizan US Airborne all painted up) as nothing has really done it for me to date- we bought Rules of Engagement when it first came out, and while its OK its never really grabbed me.
RoE was good, bit after a while a bit too predicatable. I like the friction that their command system generates with this rule set.
A new game played by the Lardie boys today can be found on their Blog:
http://toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=1671&cpage=1#comment-2080
To me this confirms that the rules are really good and can't wait to get my grubby mits on them :D.
I'm happy this is a written AAR ! :D
and a good one.
Quote from: ronan on 09 May 2013, 09:55:48 PM
May be it's because english is not my native language, but I really don't like videos for new products. ( in our hobby, or even worse for professionals products I have to learn.)
I prefer to read, while drinking coffee/beer, listening to my jazz radio.
Is it just me ? :-\
I got to play at the Lardie Day in Scotland and loved it, another Club member was also wowed and we have both pre-ordered. I have been reading about Normandy recently and was stuck by how few casualties seem to have been incurred prior to a unit halting/retiring compared to games I have played. Even the HJ was, it seems, at about 60% and LAH at 77% in manpower terms after Falaise. Clearly vehicle losses were almost total and replacements had been received, but it set me wondering. And then I read the game report for yesterday with the Germans pulling back defeated but without being devastated and I thought - Eureka, that's it!
I am now eagerly awaiting my copy and dusting off figures for it.
Richard
Looking at the battle reports I think this may be what I was hoping "Crossfire" would be all those years ago.
I love the concept of the pre-game recon.
Ordered the basic, rules only, bundle. Now torn between digging out my 20mm Soviets from whatever cupboard they are lurking in; doing the whole thing in 10mm or using it as an excuse to get a box of 28mm plastics. Decisions, decisions!
Greetings
Quote from: rim66 on 02 August 2013, 10:04:58 AM
I got to play at the Lardie Day in Scotland and loved it, another Club member was also wowed and we have both pre-ordered. I have been reading about Normandy recently and was stuck by how few casualties seem to have been incurred prior to a unit halting/retiring compared to games I have played. Even the HJ was, it seems, at about 60% and LAH at 77% in manpower terms after Falaise. Clearly vehicle losses were almost total and replacements had been received, but it set me wondering. And then I read the game report for yesterday with the Germans pulling back defeated but without being devastated and I thought - Eureka, that's it!
I am now eagerly awaiting my copy and dusting off figures for it.
Richard
While I'm also looking forward to Chain of Command I would caution focussing on divisional losses from Normandy vs losses in the rifle/grenadier companies which were often very high. Often the grenadier regiments started at 70-80% TO&E (e.g. 9 SS Pz Div). British rifle platoons habitually operated at low strengths (see 18 Platoon by Jary) and British rifle companies could be reduced to 65 men before an action (e.g. 1 Worcesters at the Seine crossing had all their rifle companies at about this strength.
Regards
Edward
Quote from: kustenjaeger on 02 August 2013, 10:33:07 AM
Greetings
While I'm also looking forward to Chain of Command I would caution focussing on divisional losses from Normandy vs losses in the rifle/grenadier companies which were often very high. Often the grenadier regiments started at 70-80% TO&E (e.g. 9 SS Pz Div). British rifle platoons habitually operated at low strengths (see 18 Platoon by Jary) and British rifle companies could be reduced to 65 men before an action (e.g. 1 Worcesters at the Seine crossing had all their rifle companies at about this strength.
Regards
Edward
Indeed, well said Edward.
Richard,
LAH and HJ divisions came out of Normandy as rumps. That is to say they were not totally destroyed as formations, but their combat power was destroyed. The remaining 60-70% in these divisions consisted largely of redundent crew who's weapons or vehicles were lost, admin, supply, communications, mechanical, medical, and command personnel. It was normal for this type of elite division when relieved to have very few infantry remaining.
These formations would be refreshed within a couple of months by allocating fresh men to the teeth arms and training them. This worked well for the Germans within their elite formations as you retain a profesional and veteran cadre but continually supply it with eager and enthusiastic new infantry to use up in the next battle. 1st airborne dropped into the middle of just such a process when they landed on the rumps of 9th and 10th SS and the SS training school at Arnhem. I think Normandy was the 4th "version" of the LAH division and the Ardennes the 5th.
Cheers, Rob :)
Absolutely agreed on the combat power - vehicle holdings were virtually nil. Throughout the book, however, it details the losses for the various battles where known and also clears up some of the 'misreporting' by some German formations, where the commander was saying they were down to a weak battalion but the Chief of Staff's figures show much more combat power - this was presumed to be an attempt to get priority for reinforcements or to get the Panzer divisions relieved. But the comparison was against games I have played where forces have to be destroyed, which just doesn't seem to have been the case in many individual engagements - the same units just keep reappearing and so they can't have been THAT devastated or they would have had to be withdrawn for refitting. I didn't explain myself well, but the point was more that being chucked out of a position as the Germans were in the demo but still remaining a coherent force with a resupply and a new NCO seems more realistic.
Richard
I always assume it as not destroying, but making combat inneffective. A kill isn't necessarily a kill, its a man running away, or a non working main gun.
Okay, gone back and checked the figures again as I seem to have set a hare running!!
At full strength the 2 divisions were each about 21 500 strong. This was split 3 ways:
The combat arms - those in direct contact with the enemy - about 12 000. These were the PzGren (7 000), the Pz Regt and the Pioneers, Recce and PzJag.
Combat Support - arty and flak. No figures but a typical bn strength of 1000 would give 4000.
Combat Service Support - the supply, medical, repair etc the balance, say 5 500.
Rough figures but hopefully good enough.
Now to losses.
HJ reported having 12 500 men after Falaise, with 2 500 in the support units. This leaves 10 000 for the combat and combat support and losses of about 9 000. Even if we assume the combat support was at full strength, then that still leaves 6 000 or 50% in the combat arms.
LAH reported total losses of about 5 000. Even if we assume they were all Pz Gren, then there would still be 2 000 left - about 2 bns.
Now I know we could play with figures ad infinitum and prove just about anything, but I did find it quite illuminating to see just how many men were still present compared to my expectations given the length of time in combat.
As for vehicles - pretty much none. But this does, perhaps, explain the speed with which some of these formations were rebuilt - the real need was for new equipment.
Hope this helps explain where I was coming from. But, again, it was more a point that I have seen many games which seem to be fights to the death and this seems not to have been the case. There were clearly occasions, but gradual attrition seems to have been more the order of the day.
Richard (who is enjoying the exchange of ideas)
Good afternoon gents, I just noticed you were talking about Chain of Command and thought I'd chuck in my shillings worth.
The data you're presenting about losses is very interesting and illuminating. However, those losses refer to an extended period in action. What Chain of Command is doing is taking a very short action fought over a relatively small piece of ground. Typically our platoon sized action on a 6' by 4' table is actually representing 240 yards by 160 yards. The time represented by the game varies, but no more than fifteen minutes. What we are looking at in such an action is how a platoon reacts to losses in a relatively short space of time. Or, more to the point, how one side seeks to defeat his opponent by destroying his opponent's will to fight, rather than killing every last man jack of them.
Personally I think this adds a level of interest and playability to the game. If you are faced with an opponent who has selected King Tiger, then your chances of blowing that up are fairly remote. However, if you can kill sufficient of his infantrymen, and thereby leave the tank feeling exposed, then you can win the game without actually killing the Tiger.
There's nothing new in this militarily, it's all standard text book stuff. What is certain is that there are any number of quotes from first hand accounts where two forces encountered each other, fought until one side decided that it was prudent to clear off. This contrasts with the number of accounts which talk about fight to the death last ditch actions where units suffered 70% plus losses in the type of platoon level actions we are looking to replicate. I don't think you can apply the template of losses over a period from D-Day to Falaise to a game where you have, essentially, a couple of platoons encountering each other in a fast and furious dust up.
Cheers
Rich
With reference to the Falaise battles, that 'Platoon' of men could equally represent a reduced Company, either Axis or Allied. I've read of 'Companies' being commanded by Corporals,'Battalions' by Lieutenants, where due to the sheer scale of attrition, they were said Companies/Battalions in name only, mainly on the Axis side, but on occasion on the Allied.
Not WWII I know, but in 1918 the British Army SS143 training manual insisted that an infantry section should be retained as an independent unit of command as long as it had three Other Ranks present and that a platoon should be retained as an independent unit so long as they could field two separate sections of three men each. So a nine man platoon assuming a platoon commander and two section commanders. Which is about 20% of book strength. They clearly reckoned that the section with 3 ORs and an NCO was a plausible tactical unit.
In extremis three men with an LMG and an NCO would be a very plausible little unit when all you are attempting to do is form a defensive front with interlocking fields of fire.
It won't allow you to do much in the way of fire and movement though.
Rich
That's interesting Rich, thanks for sharing.
You bunch of bad b@$tards...I've been successfully ignoring this for a while...and then watched the first vid earlier tonight while cooking...now I'm onto the last vid and planning forces >:( ;) :)
Next decision is whether to do it in 28mm as well as 10mm...cos I love 28mm as well, especially for skirmishing... (anyone got any 28mm surplus they want to unload - my Bolt Action wish list is ~£90 - and that's with no vehicles ;D :d ;D)
You could go 20mm1/72 plastic, nearly as big as 28mm these days and much cheaper!
Quote from: Ferb on 03 August 2013, 10:02:00 PM
You could go 20mm1/72 plastic, nearly as big as 28mm these days and much cheaper!
Hmm...not convinced - I like metal (plus I've got a load of 28mm terrain :))
I know you hate 15mm Nik but according to Rich that works out at pretty much the correct scale (size for pedants ;)) for the rules. Peter Pig do some great Platoon deals where you can get one for around £12. Add in some plastic tanks etc and Bob's your uncle :).
Quote from: Steve J on 04 August 2013, 06:01:53 AM
I know you hate 15mm Nik but according to Rich that works out at pretty much the correct scale (size for pedants ;)) for the rules. Peter Pig do some great Platoon deals where you can get one for around £12. Add in some plastic tanks etc and Bob's your uncle :).
Never happen. 15mm is the spawn of Satan :d
Quote from: nikharwood on 04 August 2013, 08:23:50 AM
Never happen. 15mm is the spawn of Satan :d
It is of course rube to interrupt a man making a mistake. 28mm is the mistake, after all it's the main scale for the evil empire.
IanS
I went with 15mm
You can see them here
British: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/sets/72157634910312373/
German: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/sets/72157630575028170/
This way it's a 1:1 ground to figure scale - same reason I use 6mm for IABSM
Though I do think 10mm are perfect for PBI he adds quickly ;)
Actually I'm thinking of doing Korea in 10mm - just need a couple of centurions. . . 8)
Quote from: Zippee on 04 August 2013, 10:29:04 AM
Actually I'm thinking of doing Korea in 10mm - just need a couple of centurions. . . 8)
That's a good idea. Perhaps someone could suggest it to Pendraken? :-w
Very nice kit Zipee!
Really very nicely done Zippee 8).
Quote from: fsn on 04 August 2013, 11:21:41 AM
That's a good idea. Perhaps someone could suggest it to Pendraken? :-w
Nah- only Zippee wants them. Not worth doing for just one customer.
Nicely painted figures, Zippee. And the movement trays are excellent. 8)
Quote from: fsn on 04 August 2013, 11:21:41 AM
That's a good idea. Perhaps someone could suggest it to Pendraken? :-w
Just for info the Centurions have gone away for moulding now, we dropped them off at the Claymore show yesterday.
8)
Quote from: Hertsblue on 04 August 2013, 07:22:08 PM
Nicely painted figures, Zippee. And the movement trays are excellent. 8)
Thanks but actually the movement trays whilst looking good don't work very well in practice - too big for the sort of heavy terrain found in Normandy, especially at 1:1 scale which is what you get in 15mm with Chain. They are very useful for storage and transport though 8)
Quote from: Leon on 05 August 2013, 01:00:09 AM
Just for info the Centurions have gone away for moulding now, we dropped them off at the Claymore show yesterday.
8)
Excellent, good to see such a quick response - I only asked for them yesterday ;D
Oh! Really! >:(
That's the way the Pendraken sloop is steered then is it?
Quote from: fsn on 05 August 2013, 07:33:44 AM
Oh! Really! >:(
That's the way the Pendraken sloop is steered then is it?
Seems like :D
You do realize mine will arrive next day delivery whilst yours will moulder away on the 'lost and we don't care' shelf at some central mail depot in Slough for years... :d
Have you tried the 'random' movement trays from warbases rather than the sqaure ones?
A friend of mine uses two 'random' bases with either five or six figures per base for a 10 man or 12 man unit. Warbases are brill like that - they will tailor to order.
Quote from: Zippee on 05 August 2013, 07:55:59 AM
You do realize mine will arrive next day delivery whilst yours will moulder away on the 'lost and we don't care' shelf at some central mail depot in Slough for years... :d
I like this idea. Maybe I should order some as well to increase the likelihood of this happening?
Now what are the chances of getting an AMX-13 and AMX-VCI into production?
I will have to order one, just for annoyance...
Quote from: mad lemmey on 05 August 2013, 11:11:06 AM
I will have to order one, just for annoyance...
Oh don't do that, there won't be any left for FSN . . . . . oh I see, doh! :-\
If I don't get Centurion #00001, hand delivered by Leon in a bikini, I'm ... hang on. Hand delivered by some totty Leon has hired in a bikini, then I ... Hang on. You get that the totty was in the bikini, not Leon don't you? Start again.
If I don't get Centurion #00001, hand delivered by ... wait. I want 15. If I don't get Centurion #00001 to #0015, hand delivered by some totty in a bikini that Leon has hired ...
What was I saying?
You wish!
More likely it will be wrapped in a Jiffy bag with fliers about Smoggycon! :P
You could always just go and pick it up at a show
Oh... then it would be "Sorry we did have them for you but the label must have fallen off and we sold them as we thought it was spare stock"
I hear infantry only battles in the Korean War are quite popular as well
From what I understood, fsn no longer wants Centurions. He wants 10mm Leon in a bikini.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 05 August 2013, 11:51:52 PM
From what I understood, fsn no longer wants Centurions. He wants 10mm Leon in a bikini.
Thats marginally better than Dave in a bikini, not much but better. ;D
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 06 August 2013, 06:59:25 AM
Thats marginally better than Dave in a bikini, not much but better. ;D
Depends if he is wearing the picklehaube.
It's an embarrassing nick name - "10mm" Leon.
I've committed to re-entering the world of 28mm WW2 for this (don't burn me - my 10mm will get a look-in as well) - some notes on my force-planning:
http://nikharwood.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/chain-of-command-force-planning.html
Quote from: fsn on 06 August 2013, 05:30:17 PM
It's an embarrassing nick name - "10mm" Leon.
But it is 'Heroic' 10mm
Quote from: fsn on 06 August 2013, 05:30:17 PM
It's an embarrassing nick name - "10mm" Leon.
Its not the size its what you do with it. - Mind you getting a chance if your known a 10mm Leon might be a challenge ;D ;D
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 10 August 2013, 11:27:22 AM
Its not the size its what you do with it.
You still using that line?
I'm going down the 10mm route as I have all the scenery, tanks etc to hand. Loads of left over infantry etc plus a few extra purchases and I'll be done. On their latest Blog they recommend playing in cm for 10mm, so on a 6'x4' table you could get a good multi-player game going 8).
Chain of Command :
D day minus 6.... 8->
Playing it on 31st August...Very interested in it
Trying it on 30th (hopefully). Gives Sunjester and I a week with the PDF, hopefully the hard copy will have arrived by the 27th/28th
Quote from: Fenton on 15 August 2013, 06:33:36 PM
Playing it on 31st August...
Quote from: Last Hussar on 15 August 2013, 10:06:49 PM
Trying it on 30th (hopefully). Gives Sunjester and I a week with the PDF,
and you will have time to write us a small AAR, won't you guys ? :D
Chain of Command :
D day minus 5....
Well I am attending a TFL Games Day in Belfast so hopefully I will get a good game of it , might be watching from the sidelines if a lot of people show up
Quote from: Steve J on 11 August 2013, 06:38:01 AM
I'm going down the 10mm route as I have all the scenery, tanks etc to hand. Loads of left over infantry etc plus a few extra purchases and I'll be done. On their latest Blog they recommend playing in cm for 10mm, so on a 6'x4' table you could get a good multi-player game going 8).
I'd be well up for a game Steve.
I am going to ak some questions while I am there..I have lots of infantry on multiple bases, I dont see at the moment why that shouldnt work
As long as you are prepared to sacrifice squad flexibility and record individual kills it will work fine.
Cheers
Craig
I'm planning on using multi-based 10s for the majority of my infantry. Most of the AAR show 'fire-teams' in fairly close proximity - so a base for a half-squad, with LMGs and support based with a couple of crew, and single based NCOs sound like they should work.
Sunjester already has his single based Germans Ready - just for CoC
I am absolutely certain that this is the first (and only time) in my life that I will say, "I am eagerly anticipating CoC"
:D ;D :D
does it mean what I understood ?!
:o
;) ;D
Chain of Command :
D day minus 4.
:-t X_X X_X ^#(^ :-&
Chain of Command :
D day minus 3....
and now please listen to some personal messages :
Jean a de longues moustaches
(Jean has a long mustache)
:D
( while re-reading before posting I wondered if it was well known..? I think so, on this forum.)
"Les sanglots longs des violons d'automne, blesse mon coeur d'une longueur monotone"
or less historically :)
"'Allo, 'allo, zis is Night'awk, are you receiving me?"
Quote from: Ithoriel on 18 August 2013, 12:04:04 PM
"Les sanglots longs des violons d'automne, blesse mon coeur d'une longueur monotone"
OK. but you're too early ! this one was 24 hours before only ! ;) ;D
Quote from: Ithoriel on 18 August 2013, 12:04:04 PM
or less historically :)
"'Allo, 'allo, zis is Night'awk, are you receiving me?"
;D
Quote from: ronan on 18 August 2013, 12:22:10 PM
OK. but you're too early ! this one was 24 hours before only ! ;) ;D ;D
I can hope can't I? ;D
You hovercraft is full of eels
I repeat
You hovercraft is full of eels
Why do you want a box of matches ? :-\
Cheers - Phil.
My nipples explode with delight!
Wait ... how did we get here from the "Chain of Command" release date? ???
;D ;D ;D
This forum is full of scratches !
Chain of Command :
D day minus 2....
( I know this is not very original .. )
Quote from: ronan on 19 August 2013, 05:39:48 AM
Chain of Command :
D day minus 2....
( I know this is not very original .. )
Agreed but fun all the same - haven't been this excited about a release in a long time... sad or what!
Quote from: Nosher on 19 August 2013, 06:04:48 AM
Agreed but fun all the same - haven't been this excited about a release in a long time... sad or what!
Me too - a few posts on my progress:
http://nikharwood.blogspot.co.uk
we're waiting for this like kids. ;)
Chain of Command :
D day minus 1....
"Bercent mon cœur d'une langueur monotone"
Quote from: ronan on 20 August 2013, 06:08:33 AM
we're waiting for this like kids. ;)
Chain of Command :
D day minus 1....
"Bercent mon cœur d'une langueur monotone"
You're right - I had a great discussion with Paul Davies yesterday - planning some terrain:
http://nikharwood.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/nomandy-town-and-country-planning.html
Don't forget Matakashi's Teahouse site has a load of info on Carentan, all for 1/48th.
Quote from: Steve J on 20 August 2013, 06:41:17 AM
Don't forget Matakashi's Teahouse site has a load of info on Carentan, all for 1/48th.
Yep - got that :)
Just seen this on the Yahoo group - posted today by Rich
QuoteThe good news is that around 70% of all advanced orders have already been
dispatched by Royal Mail. The balance will be sent out tomorrow morning.
So not only will be get the PDF tomorrow, the printed version should arrive very soon too!!!!
:) 8-> :!!
;)
It's nearly tomorrow! :-$ ;D
I hope Rich gets up early to get the ball rolling. =P~ :-w :!!
It is tomorrow now! Hope you all enjoy your first look at Richards CoC... :-\ :(
:D
They're early! PDF in my inbox already...
And, no, I didn't get up early for that, this, sadly, is my normal time. :(
Quote from: Leon on 21 August 2013, 12:31:19 AM
It is tomorrow now! Hope you all enjoy your first look at Richards CoC... :-\ :(
:D
:o ;D
No We'll wait till they arrive !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toc3EjHMOB8
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toc3EjHMOB8)
Quote from: Wulf on 21 August 2013, 05:42:36 AM
They're early! PDF in my inbox already...
(...)
Not me ! :'(
Tablet edition being sent out later today after the PDFs - looking forward to this (and avoiding calling them "Richard's CoC") 8)
Luvvly Jubbly. Sat in my inbox to be browsed today!
No pdf for me yet :(. But then work stupidly busy so I wouldn't have time to look at it anyway!
Got mine!!!!!!!!! :) :D ;D m/
Quote from: nikharwood on 21 August 2013, 06:16:08 AM
Tablet edition being sent out later today after the PDFs - looking forward to this (and avoiding calling them "Richard's CoC") 8)
Good job each edition doesn't have a code
So Tablet would be CoC T
Nexus would be CoC N
Samsung would be CoC S
Kindle would be CoC......................................
YEAH !!
Got mine !
AND i received today a small packet from Pendraken !
It's Christmas ! :)
Still nothing.. :'(
Sorry Steve, but my hard copy has just crashed onto my doormat!
No sign of mine yet. :(
(http://cdn-usa.gagbay.com/2012/01/patience_is_a_virtue-16695.jpg)
(http://www.slowtrav.com/blog/palma/patience_small.jpg)
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4726340096/h30ACE3C8/)
I liked the last one Nik :-[ ;D. Maybe the book has arrived at home, you never know...
Sadly, although it was there at 0630, it'll have to sit unopened until I get back home from work, 12 hours later...
I'd be reading the pdf a darn sight faster if I didn't keep coming here to see what rubbish we're talking now :P
Don't let us keep you
IanS
Still no pdf and my wife didn't mention a package waiting for me at home :(.
PDF before 7am - parcel waiting when I got home from work a bit ago.
The printed book looks really nice - glad I went for that as well as the PDF.
The CoC dice are huge! You'll not be picking them up to roll by accident. The other bits are nice too - all in all - well pleased with all the stuff in the bundle.
Now to digest the rules - even after having watched all the videos there's still lots to read and assimilate.
All I've received today is Online Casino stuff and a FedEx 'mail' in my spam box. Is the Fed Ex the pdf I wonder :-\? Doubt it but you never know...
Quote from: Steve J on 21 August 2013, 04:10:01 PM
Still no pdf and my wife didn't mention a package waiting for me at home :(.
Maybe she's teasing you
PDF arrived :). Their computer crashed plus they had me down for the tablet version, which should be released in the next few hours I believe. Really hope the book is waiting for me at home, unless SWMBO has hidden it...
No book yet for me, and I really hate reading PDFs off a screen, so I'll just glance through it until the book gets here.
Got the PDF.......still waitign for the book....Grrrrrr
I NEED COC
;D ;D ;D
Cheers,
Craig
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfk4wfNJP41qfzbqz.jpg)
First impressions good, everything clear - the videos have prepared the ground well.
Mildly disappointed it doesn't cover France 1940, the period I've bought all my troops for... :'(
No book for me either, but I think we have a postal dispute in Bristol (again!).
Wulf, they have asked what lists people would like, and France 1940 was pretty much top of the list. I think they will be free downloads as well.
Yes, in the PDF they talk about a couple of things to download, but I can't see them yet.
Never mind, I got my raw materials all ready for a creative flurry of terrain & troops.
Now... overcoming lethargy...
Still waiting on the tablet version. :(
They've had problems according to an e-mail received from them yesterday and hope to release it today.
Quote from: Wulf on 21 August 2013, 08:57:11 PM
(...)
Mildly disappointed it doesn't cover France 1940, the period I've bought all my troops for... :'(
I asked Richard several weeks ago, and yes, he was thinking about France 1940. I hope it will come soon, as most of my lovely minis are 1940 too ! ;)
(I had too much work to read CoC since yesterday ! :'( )
Quote from: ronan on 22 August 2013, 07:16:32 AM
I asked Richard several weeks ago, and yes, he was thinking about France 1940. I hope it will come soon, as most of my lovely minis are 1940 too ! ;)
(I had too much work to read CoC since yesterday ! :'( )
I will question him about it on the 31st....1939-1940 would be my favourite period of WW2
Greetings
I know Rich was obtaining a copy of a French pre-war training manual in order to identify the requisite national tactical factors so I know it's in the frame.
I'm looking forward to using French myself but do have late war to keep me going.
Regards
Edward
There are already a number of 1940 lists on the TFL Yahoo group
I had a look n the files section , doesn't seem to be anything there
I've got hard and soft CoC now. :D
PDF turned up this morning and the hardcopy was sat at home when I got home from work last night.
Now I have the rules I can start planning the order of MDF bases for Leon.
The Eagle has landed :). Fingers crossed I might get home at a reasonable time and have a good read of these.
I has its! I hasss the precious! It's minesss!... :d
...ahem...
Anyway, the print book also came with 4 massive chunky dice and a load of plastic markers I didn't even realise where included! Hope I haven't paid more than I intended & got a higher level version... but they'll come in handy!
Quote from: Nellkyn on 22 August 2013, 11:43:48 AM
I've got hard and soft CoC now. :D
My word sir, is this the tone one sets in polite conversation? There is at least one lady present. :P
Actually, carry on that man! ;D
Quote from: Wulf on 22 August 2013, 06:22:37 PM
I has its! I hasss the precious! It's minesss!... :d
...ahem...
Anyway, the print book also came with 4 massive chunky dice and a load of plastic markers I didn't even realise where included! Hope I haven't paid more than I intended & got a higher level version... but they'll come in handy!
Sounds like you bought the top of the range bundle by accident, you twonk. No Centurions for you!
Well, I paid £22 for it, so I'm happy 8)
QuoteAnyway, the print book also came with 4 massive chunky dice and a load of plastic markers I didn't even realise where included! Hope I haven't paid more than I intended & got a higher level version... but they'll come in handy!
The same happened to me. I've checked my invoice and I ordered the rules only option, £22, yet received the CoC Big Bundle, £33.00 :-\. I also asked for the pdf (which I received) rather than the tablet 'extra' that you could choose from, yet today I received the tablet version as well. Being an honest fellow I informed Richard at TFL, who said it was their mistake and as I was honest I could keep the tablet version :). Honesty does pay!
There do seem to have been a few orders which got extra bits by accident - TFL are asking that these extras be sent back to them, and they will refund your postage (there are some postings on the yahoo group about this).
Be gentle with the poor man. 1700 physical copies supplied, plus all the e-versions!
He may be a little bewildered.
So does it read as well as its been described on the net
Yes, it does, really. I expected something more complex, but, with the exception of the force selection which I've not got into yet, it reads very sensibly and simply (although there are a lot of 'special' rules for specific nationalities, teams, weapons, etc). I'm used to much bigger unit scales and so ground scales, so the basic rule that almost every weapon has unlimited maximum range (but a variety have special rules for closer ranges) came as a bit of a surprise to me, and simplified everything...
i am a big fan of Crossfire...Do you think it might be as good...Crossfire needs an umpire to run properly..Would CoC do you think need an umpire
QuoteThere do seem to have been a few orders which got extra bits by accident - TFL are asking that these extras be sent back to them, and they will refund your postage (there are some postings on the yahoo group about this).
Mine will be on their way back to Lardie HQ tomorrow morning. Must have been a hectic past few days to say the least!
Quote from: Fenton on 22 August 2013, 08:06:03 PM
i am a big fan of Crossfire...Do you think it might be as good...Crossfire needs an umpire to run properly..Would CoC do you think need an umpire
I can't see why it would need an umpire, but I've not played yet and only seen one game on video. I haven't seen anything about hidden units or secret orders - ambushes are created using Chain of Command dice, deploying new units onto the board and immediately firing.
1700 parcels in 2 days - with several variants - is massive. Doubly so for just 1 person. I used to manage a small warehouse which sold books, we would occasionally get a pallet of several hundred books in, and get most of them out the same day - but that was with a team of 4 or 5, and lots of space organised for dispatch of goods - not from my front room!
The rules look good - there is a enough detail that it looks like it will play well - but not too much to be daft. Each force/nationality gets 2 special rules, and the odd unique unit - so there aren't lots of extras to learn. And the special rules are quite simple - often that an NCO will add a couple of shooting dice to a team, so you don't really need to know the enemy's special rules to avoid being at a disadvantage.
I don't think they will need an umpire. The phases and activations are controlled by dice, so this limits your actions, but is known and controllable without an umpire.
Oh, well, dice & markers on the way back. The markers were too big for my liking anyway. Nice dice though.
Quote from: Fenton on 22 August 2013, 08:06:03 PM
i am a big fan of Crossfire...Do you think it might be as good...Crossfire needs an umpire to run properly..Would CoC do you think need an umpire
Not only do I not think it would need an umpire but based on my experience this evening I'd say it plays reasonably well solo - the die rolls mean you never quite know what your "opponent" is going to do :)
I think CoC would work well without an umpire. CoC's cousin, I Ain't Been Shot Mum, worked best with an umpire who could arbitrate if a shot was poor, ok or great. CoC does away with that as everything is either in open, light or hard cover.
I have been thinking about doing this is 54mm...Is that weird?
Well, they say it's designed for a 6'x4' table at 25/28mm scale, and for 10mm scale use cm instead of inches...
...so at 54mm... :-\
Quote from: Fenton on 23 August 2013, 08:54:11 AM
I have been thinking about doing this is 54mm...Is that weird?
12' x 8' table? Or maybe the floor of the ballroom at Fenton Mansions? No problem I'm sure.
I believe the next scale up from that is taking 30 of your friends paintballing :)
Well after reading some posts on the TFL yahoo group Rich advised to keep the same ranges and movement rates
Unless you have an aircraft hangar available that's probably best
having had a good read through CoC, and a quick read through 'Bolt Action' (second hand from Amazon), I find CoC the easier read even though it seems to assume more prior knowledge of the subject than CoC. BA is really heavily broken up by chapters and loads and loads of illustrations (not surprising, I know, being partly out of Osprey, but it is a bit heavy handed...)
Quote from: Fenton on 23 August 2013, 08:54:11 AM
I have been thinking about doing this is 54mm...Is that weird?
Doing anything with 54mm is weird. Especially if it's not wargaming.
Ground scale is 1:120, so 10-20mm all should fit fine. 15mm is just about bang on.
Wulf think you needed a BA not CoC in there mate!
I'm playing Sunjester Wednesday, but I may and get SWMBO to agree me and the Kid playing this weekend on the dining room table - I'm desperate to try them. The mechanics look so good. What I like is that you can do ahistoric stuff, but prepare to be punished. Not because of any special rule, but that it becomes difficult to control your forces if you break the chain of comm... ah I get it now.
Quote from: NTM on 23 August 2013, 02:36:55 PM
Unless you have an aircraft hangar available that's probably best
We DO ! (well the top floor of one, sometimes).
IanS
Not quite a batrep, but a series of thoughts on my first bash at these.
http://nosherswargames.blogspot.co.uk/
A very enjoyable use of a Sunday afternoon indeed ;)
Okay, this is tarting to sound better and better! :-\
Quote from: mad lemmey on 25 August 2013, 07:26:54 PM
Okay, this is tarting to sound better and better! :-\
Who are you calling a TART ;)
I resemble that remark... ;D
Tart au citron, yummy!
One thing's for sure, it's got the most active & responsive Yahoo mail group I ever saw, over 100 messages per day since the release...
Looking forward to having a go at these rules
I didn't have time to play !!!! :'( :'( :'(
( I've read it twice, and I think I will like it.)
Same with me Ronan, not a chance before next weekend due to work :'(. However fingers crossed I have about a weeks TOIL accrued and the kids go back to school the following week... :D.
I'm reading snatches in between packing the house up...it does look great & will play nicely I think.
Nosher - nice pics 8)
Quote from: nikharwood on 26 August 2013, 08:17:49 AM
I'm reading snatches in between packing the house up...it does look great & will play nicely I think.
Nosher - nice pics 8)
Good luck with the move Buddy!
;)
Good luck Nik!
I've never played in Skirmish scale before, so I'm having to make up (or buy...) all the terrain from scratch, as well as base & paint all the figures, so how long it'll take before I get a game is up to me! I do now have all the raw materials...
But at least I'm not moving house - that thought terrifies me! Good luck...
Quote from: Wulf on 26 August 2013, 09:54:42 AM
I've never played in Skirmish scale before, so I'm having to make up (or buy...) all the terrain from scratch, as well as base & paint all the figures, so how long it'll take before I get a game is up to me! I do now have all the raw materials...
you may begin with only a few forests and hills. That's easy.
Quote from: Wulf on 26 August 2013, 09:54:42 AM
But at least I'm not moving house - that thought terrifies me! Good luck...
Poor Nick ( I moved already 18 times in my life. I KNOW what it is ;) )
18 times? :o Who are you running away from?
As for terrain - I've got a load of buildings, some hills, trees (that need basing) a load of clump foliage for hedges (still to base), and some N gauge fencing (more basing...). Plus all the miniatures to paint... Looking for a cheap way to do roads & streams, have a small collection of fabrics to test.
;D ;D
may be : myself ! ;)
For cheap roads, I use adhesive tapes, on the reverse side, where I put some acrylic sealant ( already brown ). When dry, it's still soft. And I can paint it.
Great review which gives an overview of the rules from Anatoli's great blog:
http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.se/2013/08/chain-of-command-rules-review.html
thank you Nik.
I'll sent it to my usual opponents, it will save time before playing.
( yes, it means I still didn't have time to play CoC ! or anything else X_X )
Got my copy of CoC today at gateshead. Will read it over the next few days and see if its any good.
Quote from: howayman on 31 August 2013, 06:47:51 PM
Got my copy of CoC today at gateshead. Will read it over the next few days and see if its any good.
It is good, but I think you have to play to really appreciate how good it is.
It's generating a lot of questions on the Yahoo group that suggest the lists could have been doing with a bit more proofreading (but they're releasing more on the website anyway), and the rules themselves require more common sense than rules lawyering (eg grenades don't seem need line of sight as long as your guys could reasonably know the enemy is there...)
Nothing I've heard so far worries me. The actual game mechanics look solid and interesting. The suggestion to play 10mm with cm instead of inches I'm not sure on, since a cautious moving unit only moves 1D6" as it is. Takes a long time to get around at 1D6cm per turn...
Quote from: Wulf on 01 September 2013, 11:50:29 AM
It's generating a lot of questions on the Yahoo group that suggest the lists could have been doing with a bit more proofreading (but they're releasing more on the website anyway), and the rules themselves require more common sense than rules lawyering (eg grenades don't seem need line of sight as long as your guys could reasonably know the enemy is there...)
Nothing I've heard so far worries me. The actual game mechanics look solid and interesting. The suggestion to play 10mm with cm instead of inches I'm not sure on, since a cautious moving unit only moves 1D6" as it is. Takes a long time to get around at 1D6cm per turn...
I tried to read them on yahoo but they were too many ! ( I didn't read this week, as they came, now I'm late with too many of them) But it shows the interest of the players.
I MAY BE have my first game this afternoon.. ( waiting for my opponent :!! ).
I already decided to keep "inches" not "cm", because they would be too close. But we always round up inches to 2cm in our games ( because we're lazy ;) ) and because it gives us more room to play.
There is no real reason to use cm instead of inches with 10mm - ground scale 1:120, so fits 15mm dead on. 10mm isn't that far off. Its not like BP where a straight swap makes sense if you keep 24-36 man bns.
A lot of questions on the rules are because people are making assumptions, and it turns out it really does play like it reads. Found 2 typos (possibly) in vehicles - Softskins 0 and 1 hit are the same in the table, likewise Broken ground has same move mods with out the road x2 as Road/Clear does.
There are a couple of 'real', but trivial, omissions though - no explanation of the note 'Ronson' next to the Sherman (easily explained on the group, gives +1 to rolls for explosion on 3+hits) and a couple of others, plus that one single entirely missing sentence on page 16 that's now corrected in PDF, available as a single page, and even available as a sticker to stick in your book, if you like!
Didn't spot the Ronson, because its on the QRS!
p16 is more a clarification I thought, though a good one to have. Were the original PDF's correct?
No, mine wasn't.
They quickly updated the pdf on the day of release. BTW tried joining the Yahoo Group but to no avail so far. Keeps having problems as maybe it realises I'm an undesirable :D.
Sorry i thought we were all undesirable and that's why we're here :P
My CoC book has a sticker in it on page 16.
Mistakes are not unknown in rule books. In fact is there a rule book out there with no errors in it?
My Coc doesn't have a sticker on it :-[ :D ;).
Quote from: ronan on 01 September 2013, 12:17:49 PM
(...)
I MAY BE have my first game this afternoon.. ( waiting for my opponent :!! ).
(...)
Yes !! I DID play Chain of Command ! :)
( and I lost.. :(
who said "as usual" ! ;) )
I will wrote a small AAR... Good game, good rules.
Here is our AAR of Chain of Command in 10mm.
http://smolensk.homelinux.org/?p=1864 (http://smolensk.homelinux.org/?p=1864)
Now, I have to paint more russians ! ;) ( But our 1940 campaign will be back after our summer break. Tell me, where can I find time to play all these games ?! :'( )
:D
Ronan, nice report and good pictures.
It looks like you had a good game even with fairly small forces.
I wouldn't post pics of our games at the moment since they consist of Wehrmacht Space Marines taking on Soviet Eldar :-[ We are however having a lot of fun with them despite the lack of historically accurate figures!
Cool - glad to see someone else using 10mm.
We have played two games so far, with 10mm - we used inches, because we are lazy! 2cm to the inch, is 24cm to 40 yards, 24cm to 3658cm, which is 1:152 scale - which is pretty much spot on 10mm ground scale. Might have to think about using this now...
The first game we used multi-based figures - a single 50x30mm base with 6 infantry for the rifle team, and a smaller base with 3 on for LMGs, leaders were single based on washers.
But I have been busy rebasing infantry into 2 figures on 30x15mm bases, so that the troops spread out more.
I too will be using 10mm, starting off with Brits and Germans. The plan is to base the figures on 1p and 2p coins, with ATGs etc on small bases.
I now have about 6 foot of hedges, 6 foot of walls, 6 foot of fences and about 2 dozen buildings (actually 1 dozen , with whole & ruined versions, thanks to paperterrain.com). I have all the minis I need for a heavily reinforced platoon of plucky Brits and another of the Jerry fit for France in 1940 (all unpainted, sadly...) Biggest problem at present is that my hedges keep falling apart... I need more practice making clump foliage hedges, it seems, but it's cheap enough...
I managed to grab 2 games of CoC at the weekend, 1 solo (purely infantry to get a grip of the mechanics ) and 1 with my son (including some support options). An AAR/thoughts/review will follow on my blog later tonight or tommorrow.
In the meantime, I ve managed to paint my entire US Para Platoon (33 minis) in under 3 hours! Just rifles to paint and a quick basing and their done. IT WILL BE RECORD FOR ME..............UNDER 4 HOURS FROM BARE METAL TO FINISHED PLATOON. I know many will say its th wrong scale for them.......but they were kicking aroung in my bits box so were free!
(http://data9.blog.de/media/716/7219716_f2dd7e9681_l.jpeg)
Take a look at the link below for detailsof the method used:
http://wargames.blog.co.uk/2013/09/03/gallery-33-x-15mm-us-paras-painted-in-under-3hrs-16356750/
Cheers,
Craig
Tiny Terrain Models
That's great !
3 Hours... =D>
Three hours! That's Nik level speed! :o great figures btw!
Well done Craig 8). They should look the dogs b*ll*cks when the bases are done.
3 Hours to paint all those :o
I'm so slow at painting I sometimes think I can almost sculpt faster than I can paint !
Those look great Craig !
Cheers - Phil
I am impressed!
Quote from: Ithoriel on 02 September 2013, 08:32:33 PM
I wouldn't post pics of our games at the moment since they consist of Wehrmacht Space Marines taking on Soviet Eldar :-[ We are however having a lot of fun with them despite the lack of historically accurate figures!
WH40CoC: sounds cool to me, but then for me the game is more important than the pieces used ;)
I'd shamelessly game with naked lead - probably! :o :-[
Fab Craig, truly Fab...
I think there is inspiration there for my 10mm SCW collection which is gathering dust. I've got a free weekend coming up I will have to see what I can churn out... ;)
I'm planning on Coc SCW as well with all my spare odds'n'sods. Should make for nice and colourful forces 8).
And it looks like someone has expended some effort on SCW lists which are at the draft stage... 8)
I'm working on a RM Commando list for 44 which is close to completion. Like all lists needs a bit of playtesting and hopefully some support from the CoC rulesmeister in determining the Platoon Force Rating and support lists :)
The Balagan website has lots of useful info on the SCW, so will check this out later. Looking forward to the draft SCW lists that I will also use as a basis for my AVBCW forces using CoC for small scale actions.
I still fancy trying my hand at African Bush Wars played with CoC.
Won't be for a while yet though,
Cheers
Craig
Quote from: Steve J on 04 September 2013, 10:46:50 AM
The Balagan website has lots of useful info on the SCW, so will check this out later. Looking forward to the draft SCW lists that I will also use as a basis for my AVBCW forces using CoC for small scale actions.
Agreed, Balagan is useful but it doesn't go down to the finite detail of platoon level structure and weapon allocation which might prove a bit more difficult to pin down. I used Balagan to build the SCW lists for BKC2 but I am more than happy for someone else to do the leg work in terms of CoC ;)
US Para Platoon now fnished....3Hrs 55 minutes :-t
Pics on my blog:
http://wargames.blog.co.uk/
No more painting for a day or 2.....off to the sunny Jura for a couple of days with work :D
Cheers,
Craig
Tiny Terrain Models
Terrific Craig !! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Hose are really lovely! Bring us back a bottle? ;)
Please.......no pictures of you wearing hose Will. :o :o :o ;)
Cheers - Phil
I had a quick go tonight on some WW1 figures I had using Craig's technique, got 15 done in half an hour, which for me is pretty impressive
Nicely done, Craig 8)
Quote from: TinyTerrain on 04 September 2013, 12:54:51 PM
US Para Platoon now fnished....3Hrs 55 minutes :-t
Pics on my blog:
http://wargames.blog.co.uk/
No more painting for a day or 2.....off to the sunny Jura for a couple of days with work :D
Cheers,
Craig
Tiny Terrain Models
Look great mate- your method for painting them is identical to how I do my 10mm WW2 stuff.
Craig
When you say Vallejo wash are you referring to their Sepia shade wash?
Yep Fenton. Just splosh it on ;)
I have the black which is quite thick and gloopy...Have to get some Sepia...I use AP Strong tone at the moment, but I think its a little dark
Solo Chain of Command AAR from this afternoon (you can also see the "big" hill that Steve J made for me)
(http://data9.blog.de/media/533/7226533_608fa2df31_l.jpeg)
Full Report:
http://wargames.blog.co.uk/2013/09/08/aar-coc-hun-on-the-hill-16367778/
Cheers,
Craig
Tiny Terrain Models
Great report..Tis a mighty hill you have there
Nice report, good pics and nice figures.
Also, nice hill. Church reminds me of my old Airfix one.
Thats becuase it is the old Airfix one, given a lick of paint and some weathering :D
In that case .... nice church :)
Far better paint job than mine got all those years ago.
I shall check this out later and see how the hill looks 8).
Nice report, good hill, nice church!
Hi
Played our first game last night.
Went pretty well apart from a strange thing when a unit routed.
A Russian section which was split into a rifle team and a Lmg team were both taking shock markers.
The rifle element routed eventually but the lmg team stayed.
May have read the rules wrong but I`m sure if you saw 6 of your mates getting mowed down and the rest legging it you wouldn't hang about because you were an lmg team and it didn't apply to you.
Hope we got it wrong because they seem a good set of rules.
Jim
If the two Teams were within 4" of one another, they share the Shock between them, reducing the likelihood of doing a runner. If they were outside that distance, they were operating independently, and paid the price...
You say they routed 'eventually' - if you had moved the other Team within 4" of them, you could have evenly split the shock. If you had a Leader who could give them an order he could have Rallied them. But barring all these, you did it correctly.
The Russians CAN'T be a LMG and Rifle split unless a Leader has specifically ordered it AND they remain more than 4 inches apart. The Russians don't have the split that the Brits and Germans do- you have to use the Creating New Teams rule on p21, and such teams automatically merge back when with in 4 inches (Rich has confirmed this).
For sections that can split in to 2 teams you count all the section as long as they are with in 4 inches
So 6 Rifles + Leader have 2 shock
LMG of 2 men have 4 shock.
If they are within 4 then it is 6 shock on 9 men. If the rifles move away then the 4 shock is double the 2 men on the LMG, thus routing them.
OK, now I've reached a decision point... Up to now, I've been happily making/basing 10mm scale hedges, walls, trees, fences, buildings, etc. All well & good. But in CoC, smoke grenades & light mortars make a 3" diameter ball of smoke. The book recommends that those playing in 10mm use cm instead of inches for all measurements...
So, has anyone playing a 10mm CoC game (now, now, keep it clean...) used cm? Or inches? How big should my balls be for CoC?
...erm... if you see what I mean...
We've played a couple of games of CoC so far, both times with 10mm, and both times with inches. Seems to work well.
The ground scale of the rules is 1:120, so 10mm figures are much closer to the ground scale then 28mm. When you play it really shows how used to compressed ranges we are, because everything looks a long way away.
So 3" balls. I use some cushion stuffing - its a bit like cotton wool, but can be teased out better.
I agree - stick to inches for 10mm and above
Right, I was almost swayed, but the idea of only moving 1d6 cm per turn of cautious movement sounded... less than dramatic... :(
I'm using 10mm and inches for CoC. I played a game Friday using inches and it works fine for me. I think cm just wouldn't really work, unless you had a very small table.
Wulf,
I'm also playing CoC with 10mm, and I also stuck with inches as written. You can see my first game's batrep here on the Pendraken forum under the 'Battle Reports' listing. I played on a 4' x 4' table. It's funny, because after the Patrol Phase, there is a good chance you're not going to use a good deal of the table, especially if you're playing smart and keeping a squad/section in reserve (unlike me, I scattered my forces to the winds).
I'd say you could play a 10mm game in cm on an 18" x 18" board, but you'd screw up the Patrol Phase (there wouldn't be enough room. I haven't looked at trying to use cm on a 2' x 2' board. It should work, I suppose, but if you can pull off a 4' x' 4' table I'd say use that and stick to inches, it looks pretty good (in my opinion).
V/R,
Jack
If you shrank all inches to cm, you should be fine on a 3'x2' table, but that sounds very cramped...
I should have 4'x4' available too.
Wulf,
I agree, you could do it in cm on a 3' x 2', but I think it would be cramped, and, as someone else mentioned here, it wouldn't look very dramatic. And maybe the actual fight would be cool, but the Patrol Phase I think would look/work pretty strange.
But it's been working great for me on the 4' x 4'.
V/R,
Jack