Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Resources => Resources - Ancients to Renaissance (3000BC - 1680) => Topic started by: Druzhina on 28 April 2013, 05:56:21 AM

Title: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Druzhina on 28 April 2013, 05:56:21 AM
A 1506 print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495 (http://warfare.likamva.in/Renaissance/Fornovo-1506.htm) & a large image (http://warfare.likamva.in/Renaissance/Fornovo-1506-large.htm)
(http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8958&d=1364968572)

MIRROR SITE:
A 1506 print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495 (http://warfare2.netai.net/Renaissance/Fornovo-1506.htm) & a large image (http://warfare2.netai.net/Renaissance/Fornovo-1506-large.htm)

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers (http://warfare.likamva.in/Renaissance/index.htm)
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Techno on 28 April 2013, 06:45:00 AM
Interesting find D.

Who are the guys wearing the 'Quaker'  style hats....asked he....showing his usual ignorance.
Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 April 2013, 07:12:46 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fornovo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fornovo)

Either French or Italian, first battle of that phase of the Italian Wars.

Guessing French light cavalry mentioned in the article as the weather had made it unsuitable for the heavies??
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Techno on 28 April 2013, 07:27:16 AM
I looked at the same thing Will.....and it didn't tell me which side was which. ;D ;D ;D
I'm guessing you're right though Matey. ;) Thanks :)
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 April 2013, 07:46:33 AM
 Guess it follow the convention of good guys on the right...
Or the even older convention of... Who knows!
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: maciek on 28 April 2013, 07:47:39 AM
QuoteWho are the guys wearing the 'Quaker'  style hats
Stradioti
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Edmund2011 on 28 April 2013, 08:37:37 AM
Many thanks for sharing
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: SV52 on 28 April 2013, 09:05:01 AM
The Stradioti doing what they are best at I see - raiding the baggage!  Altogether very informative, well done Druzhina.  Everything in the picture Leon needs to start an Italian Wars line  :P
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: barbarian on 28 April 2013, 10:26:13 AM
This battle is one of the numerous example of how history is written.

The italian wikipedia describes it as a Italian victory.
The french wikipedia as a french victory.
The english one, as catastrophic for both.
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: WeeWars on 28 April 2013, 11:24:05 AM
The engraving was made within a year or so of the battle apparently from recollections of men who were there. Note the League's fortified camp, stradiots capturing the French baggage and the heroic role of the Swiss pike block (fighting as mercenaries for the French). The King of France is there -- he was attacked by a small group of men-at-arms (possibly while relieving himself) and nearly captured.
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: WeeWars on 28 April 2013, 11:34:34 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 April 2013, 07:46:33 AM
Guess it follow the convention of good guys on the right...

The French are actually in the centre, on the foreground side of the river. The League are attacking from the other side of the river on both the left and right. The League's stradiots attack over the river on the left. A failed attack is retreating back over the river on the right. The portrayal is very much one of a French victory.
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Hertsblue on 28 April 2013, 05:12:05 PM
The Venetian stradiots, under Pietro Duodo, crossed the River Taro ahead of the French army and, carefully avoiding the French Gendarmes and Swiss pike, proceded to pillage the French camp. The Marquis of Mantua, the Italian commander, led his men-at-arms across the river, followed by the Milanese pikes. The French gendarmes charged the Italians, in total disarray after crossing the much swollen river, and drove them back in rout. The Swiss and German pike then butchered the Milanese. At the other end of the Italian line the Venetians simply turned about and trotted off the field. Losses - French, less than 200; Italians - about 3,000. And two thirds of the Italian army never fought at all!   
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Druzhina on 29 April 2013, 03:42:06 AM
One of the stradiots appears to have a drum, like this Mamluk in The pilgrimage of Arnold von Harff (http://warfare.atspace.eu/Renaissance/Harff-p157.htm) which Ian Heath wrote indicates an officer.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Soldiers (http://warfare.likamva.in/index.htm)

Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Hertsblue on 29 April 2013, 08:25:50 AM
The Venetians recruited the original stradiots from Albania, so they may have had a Turkish tradition. As the Italian Wars progressed the term seems to have been applied to any irregular light cavalry of any origin and many were actually French.
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: Leman on 29 April 2013, 10:50:59 AM
This is one of my favourite periods, and as the print shows the Swiss at this time wore relatively unslashed clothing. I am assuming(as often happened at this time) that the artist is depicting 1495 but in the styles of 1506. If so then the French gendarmes had already adopted the long skirted tunic but the Italians are still wearing a realatively short skirted tunic over their armour.
Title: Re: 1506 Print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495
Post by: WeeWars on 29 April 2013, 11:06:01 AM
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 29 April 2013, 10:50:59 AM
This is one of my favourite periods, and as the print shows the Swiss at this time wore relatively unslashed clothing. I am assuming(as often happened at this time) that the artist is depicting 1495 but in the styles of 1506. If so then the French gendarmes had already adopted the long skirted tunic but the Italians are still wearing a realatively short skirted tunic over their armour.

As I said, the engraving is thought to have been made within a year or so of the battle.