Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: Turk1964 on 22 March 2013, 06:59:28 AM

Title: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Turk1964 on 22 March 2013, 06:59:28 AM
Gday all
            Ive been painting 28mm for about 5 years now and mainly use a black undercoat or grey. Ive just ordered my first 10mm Carthaginian army and should i use a light or dark undercoat? 10mm is a new thing to me and i will be using a basic block painting technique with washes and some drybrushing.

                          Cheers Turk
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: fred. on 22 March 2013, 07:39:12 AM
I use black undercoat when the figures have lots of armour. But use white with a brown wash, or just a mid brown a lot now for figures not in armour.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Turk1964 on 22 March 2013, 07:59:58 AM
Thanks for your reply. Thats a good idea ive used white when using army painter with good results.Not sure how army painter would go with such small figures so a brown wash sounds good.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Nellkyn on 22 March 2013, 08:30:05 AM
I use a whit undercoat with a brown wash. Thinned Newton and Windsor ink, usually Peat Brown.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Hertsblue on 22 March 2013, 08:58:00 AM
If, like me, you have a tendency to miss bits, I'd go for black every time. It just looks like you've shaded the places you haven't painted.  ;)
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Kiwidave on 22 March 2013, 09:00:47 AM
Quote from: Nellkyn on 22 March 2013, 08:30:05 AM
I use a whit undercoat with a brown wash. Thinned Newton and Windsor ink, usually Peat Brown.

What ratio do you use to thin the W&N inks?
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Nav on 22 March 2013, 03:45:25 PM
army painter strong and soft are very good on 10mm but if you use the dip you should apply with a brush.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Luddite on 22 March 2013, 03:54:32 PM
I use brown.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xkZ_MD85uEs/UEURYPERSGI/AAAAAAAAAaM/4d8cFBaTmfw/s320/PB072360.JPG)

http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/seven-years-war-with-maurice-part-two.html (http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/seven-years-war-with-maurice-part-two.html)

Not as harsh as white, and 'softer' than black.

:)
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: ryman1 on 22 March 2013, 04:10:12 PM
Hi Turk,

I undercoat black on everything apart from horses, I find (as Hertsblue said) it shades the parts you can't or won't reach.
If you block paint or only use one shade then it's less forgiving but were you to use two or more highlights then I'd say it's perfect and allows you to leave the deepest recesses untouched.

Of course when it comes to lighter uniforms - Austrian naps/bedouin/egyptian colonials then you may want to spray them white and use a brown ink as has been suggested.
With the Carthaginians, if you're following the white/blue trim pattern, then for me, black is a no-no.

cheers

Ry

Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: stormrider on 22 March 2013, 06:57:03 PM
Grey, with a black wash. It's black in the shadows and light enough to cover easily on the highlights.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: petercooman on 22 March 2013, 07:22:36 PM
I just ondercoat with the most prominent colour on the models.

So most of the time this will be the uniform colour.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Fenton on 22 March 2013, 07:26:53 PM
I'm with Stormrider grey with a black wash
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Turk1964 on 23 March 2013, 09:15:02 AM
Thankyou all for your suggestions and a lot to digest there :-\ Just got news my Carthaginians are on there way to OZ :-bd Great sevice guys and i can hardly wait to get my hands on these.
Ok so white undercoat with a brown wash may be the way.Grey sounds good aswell. I painted a heap of 28mm Japanese with a grey undercoat and they came out ace.Ive painted 28 mm Carthaginians with grey undercoat and liked the finish aswell.Never tried brown undercoat,not sure if i can get flat brown spray paint here though .
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: FierceKitty on 23 March 2013, 11:18:46 AM
Matt black for me these days. As the man says, it forgives a lot.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: goat major on 23 March 2013, 03:52:10 PM
Black for me. I think it works really well with small figures (on larger surface areas the black is more liable to show through). For best results be very subtle with the exposed black lining - as little as possible is best
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 23 March 2013, 04:44:46 PM
White
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: sebigboss79 on 23 March 2013, 05:33:45 PM
A philosophical question really.

For dark colours or darkening the colour scheme: Black
For light colours or lighting up the colour scheme: White

Not sure / neutral: Grey
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Jim Ando on 23 March 2013, 07:38:47 PM
Hi

There`s no right or wrong answer depends on what you are painting.

under coat your figures the same colour as the main colour of the uniforms( ie acw rebs grey then paint the trousers or jacket a different colour).

Jim   
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Nellkyn on 08 April 2013, 12:14:57 PM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 22 March 2013, 09:00:47 AM
What ratio do you use to thin the W&N inks?

Fifty Fifty works for me. I've stated to add about 10% flow enhancer to the water I use for thinning paints and inks.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Kiwidave on 08 April 2013, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: Nellkyn on 08 April 2013, 12:14:57 PM
Fifty Fifty works for me. I've stated to add about 10% flow enhancer to the water I use for thinning paints and inks.

Cheers for the info :)

I've found out the hard way that W&N inks aren't waterproof, and leach into paint applied over the top, so will try using them with 50% Klear to give them some robustness.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: goat major on 08 April 2013, 12:47:10 PM
For acrylic you may do better using a thinned artists oil wash(with white spirit) - burnt umber is a good colour.  Needs a good 24 hours in a warm room to dry properly though. And don't use it over an oil based undercoat - otherwise the white spirit will lift it
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Turk1964 on 11 April 2013, 10:29:59 AM
Gday all
              Have recieved my figures and have started on the Carthaginian Vetran Spearmen. Ive decided to undercoat these guys with  black due to them wearing armour and  looking good so far. Ive had to rethink a my painting method though due to the size.Its a bit like learning to paint all over again and im enjoying the challange  but man, are they tiny ;D
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Leman on 11 April 2013, 02:23:18 PM
I have discovered Vallejo white surface primer then washed with Vallejo dipping formula sepia works extremely well, i.e. it brings up the detail whilst  also providing a shading in the recesses. And it adheres to the figures like nobody's business (English idiom for extremely well).
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Bunny on 12 April 2013, 08:27:02 AM
Hi Turk,

I am doing ACW Confederate, spray them grey the pick out the details and them paint an Army Painter Dark Tone wash over them. They look very good in my humble opinion.

For the Union I will use Army Painter 'Ultramarine' blue and repeat the process.

Images to follow....
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Hertsblue on 12 April 2013, 08:36:40 AM
The only problem I have with spraying on the basic colour (apart from the bits I inevitably miss, of course) is that I've always believed that the undercoat is there to assist the topcoat to stick to the metal. With modern paints this may not be a problem, but the old codger in me always worries that it might.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 April 2013, 12:51:16 PM
I've had an unpleasant experience recently with a black spray that gave a horrible, grainy finish. I'm having to scrub it off with a toothbrush.
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Orcs on 12 April 2013, 10:47:10 PM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 12 April 2013, 12:51:16 PM
I've had an unpleasant experience recently with a black spray that gave a horrible, grainy finish. I'm having to scrub it off with a toothbrush.

My Dentist suggests that its a bad idea to spray paint your teeth :)
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Hertsblue on 13 April 2013, 08:41:23 AM
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 12 April 2013, 10:47:10 PM
My Dentist suggests that its a bad idea to spray paint your teeth :)

;D
Title: Re: What colour undercoat do you use
Post by: Turk1964 on 14 April 2013, 03:49:45 AM
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 11 April 2013, 02:23:18 PM
I have discovered Vallejo white surface primer then washed with Vallejo dipping formula sepia works extremely well, i.e. it brings up the detail whilst  also providing a shading in the recesses. And it adheres to the figures like nobody's business (English idiom for extremely well).

I have been using the Valejo Black surface primer and agree its excellent. I was going to purchase some grey and white primer to test  them out aswell. I brush the primer on and the detailing is still quite crisp .I found Black spray was  covering the detailing more than i would have liked so now brush my undercoats on.

Bunny it would be great to see some pics of your ACW figures :)