;D ;D ;D =O
Now seriously, i'm 27, and i am finding out more and more that it's very hard to find fellow wargamers my age. Are we a dying breed? Are we losing the young ones to videogames after all?
Quote from: petercooman on 17 March 2013, 11:34:17 PM
Now seriously, i'm 27, and i am finding out more and more that it's very hard to find fellow wargamers my age. Are we a dying breed? Are we losing the young ones to videogames after all?
It's a discussion which comes up very often at shows and elsewhere. We always see younger folk at the wargames shows though, and there are enough new companies appearing every month, which would indicate that there is (or people believe there is) a viable market for more products?
:-\
Yeah true, but who starts a company? I bet it mostly are people that have worked a few years already, having a bit of cash set aside to start their own line/store.
I have seen many young ones start in the likes of warhammer and 40k, and drop out after a year or 2 because it costs too much, or it starts to bore them.
I could be totally off though, just commenting on my region. Really hoping i am wrong :-\
I have been in 'the hobby' since '97 now, and in all those years, i think i have played two games against people who were younger than me. So maybe that's what supports my train of thought, i don't know...
There are a few different types of business, and a lot more starting up now with the economic downturn and people going self-employed as there aren't any jobs about.
There are:
- Those who start up as a part-time / extra cash affair. These either tick over nicely, or grow and grow until one day you're lucky enough to be able to do it full-time.
- Those who have lost their job / can't find a job, who decide to start a business instead, hoping it will bring in enough to live off.
- Those with full-time day jobs, who can afford to start their own companies as a secondary income.
We probably lose them all because just as they give up on the Evil Empire's two games because they are too expensive, because they have been spoon fed all 'the hobby' drivel for all the time they were in the Sith's clutches they are totally unaware that there even exists better & cheaper ways of wargaming.
I think Gordon sums it up fairly well.....
Then there are those who return to the hobby once they realize, or discover, that the EE's systems and models aren't the only products available.
Sometimes it takes a bit (a lot ?) of time though.
Cheers - Phil.
I had an aweful lot of gw stuff as a kid but like most got distracted by beer women and the real world. Painting used to chill me out so I started again a couple of years ago with 10mm historicals. I'm 36 with 3 kids a big mortgage and stressful job so 10mm as a scale fits in with available time and space and I like painting real looking armies not skirmish actions. Due to geography and life I haven't played a game since coming back to the hobby but would like to at some point!
I would still play gw but only the specialist games. My son is 2 though so I've probably got about 6 years before I have start painting space marines :D
Also miffed because like you peter I've 31 years before retirement but I'm nearly 10 years older :'( I'm in the wrong country >:(
Quote from: GordonY on 18 March 2013, 07:59:50 AM
We probably lose them all because just as they give up on the Evil Empire's two games because they are too expensive, because they have been spoon fed all 'the hobby' drivel for all the time they were in the Sith's clutches they are totally unaware that there even exists better & cheaper ways of wargaming.
I don't think it's as simple as that. We have successfully weaned youngsters off 40K and on to WW2 or even Napoleonics in the past. However, they then hit sixteen or seventeen and discover the opposite sex. The next few years are taken up with relationships and "settling down" and it's usually only in their late thirties/early forties, once the hormones have damped down a bit, that the opportunity to get back to a hobby occurs. OK, I know there are exceptions to this rule - but they are exceptions. This is why the number of young (twenties and thirties) people in the hobby is relatively low.
QuoteI don't think it's as simple as that. We have successfully weaned youngsters off 40K and on to WW2 or even Napoleonics in the past. However, they then hit sixteen or seventeen and discover the opposite sex. The next few years are taken up with relationships and "settling down" and it's usually only in their late thirties/early forties, once the hormones have damped down a bit, that the opportunity to get back to a hobby occurs. OK, I know there are exceptions to this rule - but they are exceptions. This is why the number of young (twenties and thirties) people in the hobby is relatively low.
When I still went to Portbury Knights wargames club, all of the above happened. Chaps moved away to Uni, then got jobs, houses and families. Once all this was sorted we saw them re-appear at the club as time and finances allowed.
I never took a break actually :-\
I stopped buying and gtaming for sure, but i never stopped painting. I never had the opposite sex problem for that matter. For me there was only one girl while i was in school, so didn't have that problem. Never got to it unfortunately, but hey we are still friends and i hear from her on a daily basis so it's all good.
You know what they say, better a good friend than a bad relationship.... :'( :'(
;)
Quote from: petercooman on 17 March 2013, 11:34:17 PM
;D ;D ;D =O
Now seriously, i'm 27, and i am finding out more and more that it's very hard to find fellow wargamers my age. Are we a dying breed? Are we losing the young ones to videogames after all?
I agree that there are fewer younger historical gamers now. Personally I think this is because we are a different country now and the views of what children can consume for entertainment is very different from in the past. This coupled with the greater technical possibilities for film makers and computer game makers fires the imagination of kids in different directions.
Violence in the form of historical stories has been forbidden to young audiences for many years now only to be replaced with even more violent 'fantasy/zombie/super power/super hero/science fiction' subjects. I get the impression from my boys that battles are no longer part of history teaching at school (is this true teachers?). So the insight gained into the technicalities of fighting battles is denied to the kids.
The result I think is the imagination of kids is fired up by different things these days, and unfortunately it is easier to satisfy this with the latest greatest video game rather than spend 3 or 4 times as much on rules and figures and have to paint and base them.
I am fighting back though! :D The rules I am currently working on are a skirmish set. They are primarily for the 20th century. I intend to get them working in the "real world (?)" environments and then build in zombies and weird WW2 type add-ons. I also intend to put in xbox type scenarios with characters regenerating back into the game in "secure the flag/objective" type contests. I'll make these available freely to anyone that wants to use them. My target is to put historical or modern style war gaming into the same package as (silly?) zombie/space marine games to allow my kids to convert in their own time, or not, as they see fit.
Cheers, Rob :)
Don't bother and buy The Battlefield - Miniature modern warfare. It's all already made.
I have a 17 year old who has played G W games and has moved on to warmachine. does a lot of card type games but has no real interest in historical gaming at all. It was the old airfix models that got me interested in military history then in to using the figures for games. The military toy seems to have vanished from modern kids toy boxes and video games need no real grasp of history.
Hmm..interesting topic. I just turned 25 and would call myself a big hobby-enthusiast (and I'm definitely not the only "young" gamer here). But I also have to say that I've returned to the hobby only a few years ago after a break of ~10 years ???
->
Quotebut like most got distracted by beer women and the real world.
Actually an ex-girlfriend gave me the final impulse to reenter the world of miniatures. About 4 years ago we were standing in a toy-store to buy a present for her little sister when she noticed that I kept starring at all those 20mm stuff by revell, zvezda ec. and said "Gosh, then buy one of those boxes if your inner child demands it". And that was the start of my journey on the road to perdition :D
edit: and I defintely have to say that the hobby is not considered "cool" and on the nerd-scale even above excessive computer-gaming..I still pack away all my stuff before I go out on the weekends..guess most ladies would immediately turn around when the first thing they see in my appartement is a table full of lead L-)
Same with me, my grandfather used to work for the belgian railroad system, and had a model train set at home, wich we could use when we were there. This led me to building houses for them wich he got for me.
One day we went to a hobby'con' in our town, as the flyer said there were also train dioramas on display.
I bought my first model kits there, wich was a model of the apollo landing on the moon, and a snap togheter revell kit cointaining a tie figther, x wing and b wing. Having much fun with these, i asked another kit for my birthday 2 months later (i became 9), and got a model of a Hind helicopter. I never looked back ever since. Everything from then on had something to do with military.
Untill that dreaded day, where i stepped into a local hobby shop at the age of 12 and started the GW madness. I must admitt that unlike others, i didn't start with WF or 40k, but went immediately to the small scale of epic 40k.
Off course this didn't last long as nobody played it ;D ,years later i restarted epic though, and have nice and big armies for it.
Then i started fantasy and 40k and went of and on, always trying other (more affordable)stuff.I had dozens of revell 1/72 kits and still have them today because they were dead cheap at the time. I also started with warzone, the mutant chronicles, wich in my opinion was a better game than 40K, but sadly target games went bankrupt very fast. I also remember asking for risk for my birthday, as i wanted the napoleonic models ;D
Now all that aside, last year the local store closed, and having nowhre to play the GW games anymore, it was normal that I choose another thing, and with my collegue already having 2 pendraken armies for BKC, the coice wasn't that hard!(i wish i had known sooner that my collegue was a wargamer too! )
So that's it, as you see i was aware that there were other things around then GW, but most of the time the problem was finding someone else who wanted to play something else!
QuoteSo that's it, as you see i was aware that there were other things around then GW, but most of the time the problem was finding someone else who wanted to play something else!
Guess you can't escape GW..
Until a few weeks ago I've never owned a single GW figure, then a Friend of mine told me that he was interested in tabletop...but only 40k :'(
So I bought a horribly painted second-hand army form ebay for little money and now I'm repainting them to fit my standards...sometimes you have to take the potluck when it comes to wargaming.
True, better play 40k than don't play at all :P
Andyou can always use the models or other purposes, like skirmish games etc...
i started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?
Quote from: howayman on 18 March 2013, 09:04:15 PM
i started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?
maybe wise? :-\
Quote from: howayman on 18 March 2013, 09:04:15 PM
i started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?
No, very, very lucky. :D
My club is pretty healthy mainly down to one member who is head of history at one of the local schools cherry picking likely types for initiation. We have several memebrs now in their 20's who started at the club in their mid teens, and most are playing historical games.
Interestingly (and perhaps topic for another debate) but the GW contingent at the club are turning away from playing Warhammer in its latest incarnation. Trawling the various forums seems to show a slow decline in interest in all things GW, and not just from the usual GW bashers.
Quotei started long before G W does that make me really old. . . .?
Not from where I'm standing it doesn't ;). I got into war gaming a few years before the very first White Dwarf came out. For years I had the first 7 issues and then gave them to a friend whilst at Uni. If I still had them they'd be worth quite a bit of money now :(.
Do not get me wrong ,i have done my fair share of fantasy role playing and since the late 70s have wanted a skeleton army but when somebody tried to say your force had to have this and that but couldn't have him or her and they must have this colour uniform i thought "ITS FANTASY for gods sake" and never bought into it.
the youngsters come to this through a high street retailer not a back street shop or kiosk at a metro station the way i did. Its given to them on a plate for a cost. a move to historical means meeting people who know their stuff, and often tell you out right that those uniforms are wrong, that those tanks were not used at that time etc, etc. and most kids can not handle that type of put down in a hobby.
the ones that want to will move on into historical gaming eventually.
I see the issue twofold.
Firstly, yes the younger ones are easily influenced into believing GW is the one and only truth. no need to elaborate. We all been there, seen it.
For me it is a pitty that we as gamers apparently are less successful to show the youngsters how much fun wargaming can be.
We could have:
-intersting talks across all age groups
-free admirers ( :P )
-a healthy mix of games and ages (we don't get younger guys)
but instead we have
-Powergamers
-GW Fanboys bombing (or trying to) and sabotaging other wargames and if it is only by trashtalk during demo games.
-we get LOTS of young guys (and girls) LEAVING the hobby for a variety of reasons.
Especially the last point is very sad. I know a 12 years old guy in my German LGS who was playing Space Marines. He did invest time and money in HIS army and was quite skilled playing it already. What happened to him deciding it is not worth the effort? Well some GW fanboys knowitalls wiped his entire aarmy out in round 1. Not once, not twice.
Others look at the amont of time they have to invest and decide to go back to computergames.
Does GW address that? On the contrary. Beginner games and the "help" they offer are just self interest they attempt to cover in "doing something for the hobby". GW does not give a flying f.. about "the hobby". They care about next and only next, annual report. But instead of ranting only let us think about what we, the gamers could do.
We should only buy from a business that does something for the hobby. That spurs interest and has a shall we say more decent approach to business?
We should encourage younger gamers to join us. Show them how much fun it can be to do some reading about the "Desert Rats" or Arnhem, learn something, buy and built an army and get together with other, likeminded peple and PLAY. Playing should be fun. It should be accessible and allow some freedom of choice. You want King Tiger Tanks to go with your Roman Legionaries? By all means if the ruleset supports it do it.
Most of all the older generation f gamers needs to realise we NEED the younger ones. And it is up to US (not GW!!!) to shape them to be "right". It can happen. Not overnight but everytime you can get someone interested in what you are doing is a chance they will pick it up at some point.
My daughter (6) already paints Battlemechs (very expressionistic) and wants to do a Star Wars Army (god knows how much it will cost me..). Another army she wants is Romans (yay) and she has read about the Roman soldiers so she knows how to build that army.
Quote from: Windle Poons on 19 March 2013, 09:53:02 AM
Interestingly (and perhaps topic for another debate) but the GW contingent at the club are turning away from playing Warhammer in its latest incarnation. Trawling the various forums seems to show a slow decline in interest in all things GW, and not just from the usual GW bashers.
Just the opposite at the club I sort of still attend - 8th edition of Warhammer has created a resurgence of interest. Not surprising though really, as our club was founded by WFB players, and has always been principally a fantasy cub. A few members had dabbled with WAB for a while, but that has waned, and once upon a time there was an interest in Warmaster Ancients....
Quote from: howayman on 19 March 2013, 09:14:33 PM
the youngsters come to this through a high street retailer not a back street shop or kiosk at a metro station the way i did. Its given to them on a plate for a cost. a move to historical means meeting people who know their stuff, and often tell you out right that those uniforms are wrong, that those tanks were not used at that time etc, etc. and most kids can not handle that type of put down in a hobby.
the ones that want to will move on into historical gaming eventually.
This is true, i wouldn't know half as much about uniforms equipment and god knows what if it weren't for my wargaming. Wargaming equals research and equals LEARNING. And that my friends is a word not many youngsters want to associate with their hobby :)
When you get a little older, your interests start to shift a little, and you might get more in to history oppossed to when you are in school or shortly after. I think the reason for this is because you are being fed constant information in class about all kind of subjects, insted of learning about what interests YOU.
When you get older and start looking into it yourself you choose your own subjects, and that makes it easier and even enjoyable.
I can honestmy say, there was only one class in high school that i failed in 6 years, and that was history .
And know you can't even open a cupboard in the house without a book about a long gone era falling out ;D
You have to have your own history before you can appreciate that of others.
Quote from: Kiwidave on 19 March 2013, 09:33:46 PM
Just the opposite at the club I sort of still attend - 8th edition of Warhammer has created a resurgence of interest. Not surprising though really, as our club was founded by WFB players, and has always been principally a fantasy cub. A few members had dabbled with WAB for a while, but that has waned, and once upon a time there was an interest in Warmaster Ancients....
Our club was always an historical group, to the extent that one meeting a month was always solely Napoleonic. I have watched it, over the space of forty years, gradually get taken over by the fantasists and 40k-ers. Today, one table a meeting is all the history buffs can manage whilst all the yelling and excitement is grouped around the 40k tables at the other end of the hall.
Why? Largely I think because of that greatly misunderstood and subtly powerful entity - marketing. Marketing demands money and resources, but once in place yeilds high rewards. Marketing made GW what it is today - a listed stockmarket company. Marketing has raised Battlefront and FOW to the second most popular period in the genre. Against that what can the historical fraternity muster? We are, as my old boss used to say, "farting against thunder".
However, we do have one huge advantage - direct access to the youngsters. We often get lads wandering over to see what we're putting on. We've managed to persuade one or two to join in from time to time. One lad even turned up with a few tanks of his own to play in a WW2 game. That's the way it has to be - softlee, softlee catchee monkey.
Sounds like the club I attend Hertblue.
One historical table at one end of the hall and GW and all its derivatives taking up 90% of the tables. The old fogeys crammed around the historical table while everyone under the age of 40 is playing something fantasy related.
Personally I dont care as the 10% I game with have good personal hygeine, know what a toothbrush looks like and appreciate a pint or two of proper ale ;)
Quote from: Nosher on 20 March 2013, 09:34:00 AM
Sounds like the club I attend Hertblue.
One historical table at one end of the hall and GW and all its derivatives taking up 90% of the tables. The old fogeys crammed around the historical table while everyone under the age of 40 is playing something fantasy related.
Personally I dont care as the 10% I game with have good personal hygeine, know what a toothbrush looks like and appreciate a pint or two of proper ale ;)
Yeah, and they don't screech like banshees. :-B
Don't underestimate the power of PC/console games too.
I bought my nephews into 40k, but they didn't stick with it - mainly due to their interest in computer games. This may be a reason why there are fewer youngsters at the tabletop?
But i support the pattern generally elucidated previously, and i think its certainly a pattern i've seen/experienced:
8-16yrs GW
16-26yrs Beer, women, Uni, adult life establishment
26+yrs Back into 'Wargames' (generally derisive of GW)
The thing about GW though is that they are pretty much the only company out their recruiting youngsters into 'analogue' gaming.
Love/hate/both the so called 'evil empire', what other route do kids have into the wargames hobby?
What other company, organisation, or club(?) is running systematic recruitment of the next generation of wargamers?
Pendraken's sort of 'old school' in its approach and business model isn't it? Its a figure maker and nothing more.
So many new starts now seem to follow the GW model of combining rules, IP, and figures into a proprietory product package so often resisted by older (and more crotchety) gamers/grognards.
The benefit of the proprietory model is that you as a company/organisation CAN actively go out and 'recruit' young gamers to your cause as you can hand everything to them on a plate. Its far harder without that model to establish and engage new players isn't it?
'Doing everything yourself' requires a lot more 'buy in' and effort from players who may not yet have decided that this is the hobby for them...
Does it matter?
Do we want to leave a 'legacy' of a vibrant hobby to the next generation?
I guess sellers want a continuing consumer base, but old players?
Interesting topic...
You want to have another route into the hobby. Indded tough as no other retailer has high street outlets. Independent retailers seldom ahve a huge variety. Besides GW just the usual suspects in forms of PP and BF.
But there are alternatives. I game (Urban War) in the local retailer and the game catches interest. I game 3mm scenarios and catch interest. I play with Pendrakens I catch interest.
Hence it is a matter of exposure on one hand and how that interest gets cultivated on the other. I let others generally join in my games giving them tactical advice of exactly WHY they should not move their CC specialist directly into LOS of enemy elite snipers etc.
I further believe it is the "older" players that should be looked at. Not only do they have the cash BUT also they do not randomly switch their interest to PC games, new women ... every other day. So you have a quite stable consumer base and can top up with younger gamers to make a quick sale.
I suppose if there wwre some sort of 'national gaming guild' or something, dedicated to promoting wargaming, and with branches throughout the country capable of supporting after school clubs etc., we might have a chance.
Untill then (i.e. never), the young are stuck with GW's 'The Hobby'.
:-\
I'd really like to be able to bring in the younger players, but it requires a whole load of time and effort which we just don't have. You also need the full package of rules / figures / scenery, and to an extent nice shiny packaging to catch their eye.
I do wonder sometimes if there's anyway to tie in to local schools as part of the history curriculum. As the eldest works his way through the school years, I'm keeping an eye on what subjects he's doing and whether there's anything we can help with. A couple of weeks ago they were building papier-mache pyramids, so I gave him a few camels from the Sudan range to take into class! I don't know how much the military aspect of history gets covered anymore though? When I was at school, we seemed to cover the political aspects a whole lot more than anything else, especially with WW1 and Vietnam.
One of the other area's which always gives me hope is the popularity of things like Warcraft and Call of Duty. Despite them being computer games, they are still bringing people into RPG and combat games. If only 0.01% of those gamers took that interest into tabletop gaming, we'd probably double the number of wargamers in the UK overnight.
:-\
I think it all comes down to exposure, when I was a boy the nearest thing I got to seeing historical models was the imperial war museum displays.
Like most kids I played with toy soldiers but saw them as just that - something to line up and knock down and but for a chance sighting of practical wargamer in a newsagents with a napoleonic cover (having just watched waterloo), I'd never had known there was a dedicated hobby.
At the same time I was well aware of D&D, some friends had the figures but it didn't interest me, games workshop was on the high street but again, no interest.
What I'm saying is - there is potentially a greater number of potential historical gamers/collectors amongst the kids of today than adults actually in the hobby now, they just need to know that historical gaming exists.
So, how to approach it and draw it new blood?, again it comes down to exposure; if each of us was willing to pin a notice for a local historical gaming club in the nearest library, or if manufacturers were willing to send a small selection of figures and perhaps a catalogue to any local schools they know of with an after school hobby club - who knows?, it might pique the interest of a kid who likes lining them up and knocking them down after watching gladiator/zulu etc, but can't stand the idea of eldars chasing ork boyz through a cavern of lost souls.
If there's one thing I think would make a marked difference, it has to be conventions, suppose south london warlords offered 10 free tickets to 10 local schools/cadet centres etc, that's 100 potential recruits, it's a case of catching them at the right time ( my brother went to a car show as a kid and now he's a mechanic and hooked on them).
That's my two pence worth, we just have to let them know we're here.
cheers
Quote from: ryman1 on 20 March 2013, 02:08:51 PM
If there's one thing I think would make a marked difference, it has to be conventions, suppose south london warlords offered 10 free tickets to 10 local schools/cadet centres etc, that's 100 potential recruits, it's a case of catching them at the right time ( my brother went to a car show as a kid and now he's a mechanic and hooked on them).
A very good idea I think.
When I was looking at the possibilities of wargames in my teens I didn't consider things like painting and basing. I went to investigate the hobby at the "Worlds" which were then held in Notts and was completely blown away with the tables full of beautifully painted armies. An immediate convert.
Cheers Rob :)
Quote from: ryman1 on 20 March 2013, 02:08:51 PM
If there's one thing I think would make a marked difference, it has to be conventions, suppose south london warlords offered 10 free tickets to 10 local schools/cadet centres etc, that's 100 potential recruits, it's a case of catching them at the right time ( my brother went to a car show as a kid and now he's a mechanic and hooked on them).
That could be a really good idea actually. I'd quite happily give out some free tickets for Smoggycon to schools if they were interested in coming along. I might ask at the eldest's school and see if they'd be up for it.
Trouble is we live in an era where instant gratfication is king.
Why spend a small fortune buying an army :o
Three months painting it (:|
Two hours planning which rule set and scenario to play :-/
Half an hour setting up a game :-\
Four hours playing the game 8)
Two hours debating why you lost again and what you'll do differently next time :'(
Half an hour putting eveything away :(
Half an hour driving the twenty or so miles home from your 'local' club @-)
Another hour with a beer pondering why you lost again and what you'll do differently next time :'(
Five hours restless sleep worrying over how you might have misinterpreted the LOS rule ~X(
A week pondering if the army you spent 3 months painting is actually any good and fretting over why your opponents army looks better and he finished it in half the time :d
OR
Plug in and Play ;D
Quote from: Nosher on 20 March 2013, 08:09:50 PM
...
OR
Plug in and Play ;D
Now i play video games too, not so much as wargaming but still like it. There is just one thing that makes me more satisfied when playing wargames than playing pc games, and that is the pride i can take when i can see my army on the table and know i have gone through most of the steps you just summed up, and it is an army I created, it is unique, two may look the same, but they are always different.
Problem with kids these days, they have so darn much, and they have to do soooo little to get it, that they don't realize the joy of building something yourself anymore.
Real life example, a collegue of mine showed me a video he made with his phone of his 3 year old making puzzles on an ipad. The lil lad put on the ipad , started puzzling, got bored, just put off the ipad..
I jokingly asked him if he could still make a normal puzze too. He thought i was being serious and sadly the answer was no. See what i mean? They are jused to just dragging their finger over the screen, and when it coms to matching the pieces putting them togheter and finishing soething they fail. They lost the sense of creating something from scratch.
Sadly it's the same in real life. Just look at the army and the news a while back about the medals given for remote drone control. My grandfather fought with the belgium "brigade piron" in the second world war, he never got any medals, and he didn't feel sorry he did. But he had to go into batte himself, carry his equipment, march , run, face enemy fire and see the horors of war up close. Now ty just have to fly a bot, and probably find it normal they get a medal for it. (not saying anything about the other branches of the military off course, i have the greatest of respect for the ones who put their life at risk)
(also if anybody is interested, heres a good site about the brigade piron, taht includes all the names of the soldiers.If you scroll down, you will see "Cooman Lodewijk, who was my grandfather: http://www.brigade-piron.be/noms_c_nl.html )
I think it's the 'creative' side that appeals to most folk that come into the hobby, as Peter indicates.
I've got a handful of video games for the PSP, which I quite enjoy playing from time to time....But they pall after a while (to me) and get rather boring, because I either get too competent at them and they're not a challenge any more....Or just the opposite. I'm totally hopeless at them and get completely frustrated. ;D ;D
It is such a shame that our younger 'devotees' only see GWs products as worth investigating...But that's down to the marketing I guess....Plus, I believe, peer pressure.
But the more folk the EE get interested in the hobby, the more will eventually leave the 'Dark Side' and see the Light. ;)
One other point that I think someone mentioned earlier.
History lessons NEVER fired my enthusiasm for the subject when I was in my teens. (A very dry and uninteresting period ...for me.)...Now I want to know EVERYTHING.
Which is why I love this forum.
Cheers - Phil.
Im intent on warping my kids brains and making them wargamers, especially historical ones. My 6yr old has already painted a couple of figures and although we havent played a full wargame yet we made a rule set up to play with some Roman gladiators and he also likes playing Battlelore (a HYW/fantasy board wargame).
He's exposed to history through school, and so far Ive been impressed with how they teach it. Ive also been impressed with the TV (and book) series Horrible Histories which really seems to bring stories from hisotry to life often in a gruesome and amusing way. I laughed like a drain at their re-enactment of Agincourt which saw the French knights buried up to their necks in mud.
Wonderfully summed up Nosher ;D.
Nosher,
You left out the three months to read, absorb and learn the rules. ;)
Quote from: Hertsblue on 21 March 2013, 08:24:33 AM
Nosher,
You left out the three months to read, absorb and learn the rules. ;)
;)
Unless you read Barkerese which takes a couple of lifetimes to digest >:(
Barkerese isn't so much a language, more of a code. If the Germans had used it instead of Enigma we'd have lost the war. :D
Quote from: Nosher on 20 March 2013, 08:09:50 PM
(...)Two hours debating why you lost again and what you'll do differently next time :'(
(...)
That's a really interesting part of our games ! ;D
There are some young people here in our local club (Nantes). I'm not sure they spend a lot of time painting their armies, but they like the games. All these young people must stay in tune with their mates, so they don't have much time. Remember our "good old" times, no internet ( where we can find minis, army lists, rules, scenarios, and even opponents), no smartphone ( now we can join our friends and change the game in the last moment..) And they have to meet girls ( remember ? ;-) )
We'll see in a few years what will happen to them.
I'd like to know about older players, about 30 years old. Do you "paint and play" ?
30 isn't old. @-)
Quote from: Luddite on 25 March 2013, 09:53:02 PM
30 isn't old. @-)
Certainly not from where I'm looking! :( :( :( :D
Mollinary
50 this year so 30 is not old as far as I'm concerned!
30 is positively young as far as some of us are concerned !
So's 40....and 50....(Sigh !!) ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Trouble is I still think I'm about 25 but my body at time feels like I'm 60 :( ;).
30? OLD????
I may as well go and shoot myself now, put me out of my misery ;)
As for chasing girls, I for one am personally glad that aspect of my life is behind me. :) Women are far too expensive a commodity ;D :D ;D
30 old?
I'll let you know in 3 years what i think :P
Quote from: Steve J on 26 March 2013, 09:04:43 AM
Trouble is I still think I'm about 25 but my body at time feels like I'm 60 :( ;).
;D...Not just me then !! ;D
Quote from: petercooman on 26 March 2013, 10:19:22 AM
30 old?
I'll let you know in 3 years what i think :P
Ooooh.....You really know how to hurt some people, don't you Peter ? ;D
Enjoy it, before bits start wearing out Matey. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Nosher on 26 March 2013, 09:15:26 AM
30? OLD????
I may as well go and shoot myself now, put me out of my misery ;)
As for chasing girls, I for one am personally glad that aspect of my life is behind me. :) Women are far too expensive a commodity ;D :D ;D
way more expensive than metal >:(
34 in June.
@Techno: I was lucky enough to learn from Gentlemen your age a lot of things during my life. The insanity to hire only 18 years old with short skirts has driven our economy where it is now. Personally I always listen to advice of the older generation. It may seem outdated at times and working with computers is often not the strength, wisdom definately is.
We need ALL generations and views to form a sane oppinion.
Cheers
Roland
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 26 March 2013, 03:00:26 PM
We need ALL generations and views to form a sane opinion.
Very, very true Roland.
Cheers - Phil.
You're never too old to learn from the youngsters, however, so the process is a two-way street.
Quote from: Techno on 26 March 2013, 10:26:51 AM
Ooooh.....You really know how to hurt some people, don't you Peter ? ;D
Enjoy it, before bits start wearing out Matey. ;)
The thing with age is, i can become as old as i want, i'll never catch up to you guys :D
Personally i don't think age matters, i've seen the smartest kids aged 16 and the dumbest oafs aged 60 and vice versa. ;D
But you'lll learn from each other no matter what , as long as your open to it!
And if you can't learn from someone, then i look at my belt and realize they are still usefull.
Fittingly, my belt has a phrase on it: "i'm not completely useless, i can be used as a bad example"
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
true story!
Quote from: petercooman on 26 March 2013, 06:30:58 PM
Fittingly, my belt has a phrase on it: "i'm not completely useless, i can be used as a bad example"
I DO like that one LOTS !!
I might have to get it printed on a sweatshirt.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Luddite on 25 March 2013, 09:53:02 PM
30 isn't old. @-)
nope ! :-[
( and I can remember when I was 30 ! )
I did not mean older players, but older than those we spoke !
around 25 to 35 years old : job, young kids, sports ?... do you have enough time to paint ?
That's what I meant.. :D
"
i'm not completely useless, i can be used as a bad example"
I also like it ! May I borrow this sentence ?
36 not old but really struggle for time to paint. Kids job house all demanding. Personally I'm looking forward to being 50 ish. But not yet :D
You may all use my motto :p
In fact, they sell the patches on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Embroidered-Iron-Cloth-Biker-Patch-Im-Not-Totally-Useless-/150885812497
Quote from: petercooman on 26 March 2013, 06:30:58 PM
"i'm not completely useless, i can be used as a bad example"
There's a variation on that one - "I'm not a complete idiot - some parts are missing." :D
That's not bad either Ray. :)
Cheers - Phil
Yeah that's a good one too!
Hi,
The problem is Games flammin Workshop,have killed wargamming.As an Ex-Employee
I did enjoy my job but then profits and MATEL took over,they now have an annual price increase.
So if that's all the kids have as a starting block GOD HELP US!!!
So the only thing I can think of is trying getting the kids heads out of the SCI-FI and into the history books.
Iv'e been an avid Wargammer since I was young playing RISK and such like with my dad.
At 18 was the working for an idipendate wargamming store and ran the Games club there.
At 27 joined GW.
I live in Leeds and everywhere it's GW.
I do feel like trying to tell the sellers to stock flames of War or something else as there is already a GW store.
Now at 40 just purchased a load of NAM stuff.
I got into wargaming with plastic kits and figures. When I was growing up in the 70's there were loads of places you could buy them not just model shops. The sweet shop by the school sold Airfix.
Then gradually it became only model shops and toy shops that sold them. that was ok, every town or village had one or both. Again they were cheap and easy to get. Now even the model shops are few and far between, and the youngsters cannot walk down to the local shops with thier pocket monet and buy a kit or a pack of Figures.
So when they see GW shops it may well be the first time they have seen anything like it and as we have said they are then brainwashed.
I have always gamed, but I did get diverted by girls in my youth a bit, but I was always up front about it and never had any problems, most were impressed when they realised I had painted them.
Walked into my "local" model shop in Harlow the Tuesday after Easter and found it packed with off-school youths. Whether it was an event organised by the shop or the lads just had nowhere else to go, I don't know. The shop is a major stockist of GW (although independent stockists of plastic kits and model railway equipment) and has strong contacts with the local wargames club (not mine). The management obviously finds it expedient to push GW from a sales point of view - and who can blame them? They have to make a living and the bottom line is marketing.
Fifth place at the BHGS Challenge flames of war yesterday was an eleven year old. There is some hope.