Makes you wonder what comes next...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21380003
Does that mean I can register a trademark "war" and start collecting $$$$$ from anyone that uses those 3 letters or even more, start sueing countries that actually GO to war?
If this goes through common property will start ceasing into nothing. Not common sense but the better legal team will rule the day....not a world you want to live in.
RESIST!!!
>:( >:( >:( >:(
They are getting ridiculous.
Shame on you GW!!
I emailed them I would not buy ANY of their products anymore should they not publicly apologize for this move.
Of course they will delete my email. They will also delete your email (should you bother). But at some point they WILL be bloody pi**ed and have a cramp in their fingers from deleting all the hatemail.
8)
One can dream, can I not?
*I need replacement products for GW Base Ceramite White. Something that covers equally well. Suggestions via PM
Dulux Brilliant White "should" just about do it.
I see Amazon have put the book back up for sale
Quote from: GordonY on 09 February 2013, 09:36:14 AM
Dulux Brilliant White "should" just about do it.
Thing is.....
Some firm could do that.....Though I'm not sure about the legal issues.
Buy a massive pot of 'A well known brand'.
Decant that pot into little containers, and sell at the going rate......I'm sure you'd make a handsome profit.
Or am I being a cynical old g*t AGAIN. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Fenton on 09 February 2013, 10:06:08 AM
I see Amazon have put the book back up for sale
Good for them !!
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 08 February 2013, 10:17:14 PM
I emailed them I would not buy ANY of their products anymore should they not publicly apologize for this move.
Of course they will delete my email. They will also delete your email (should you bother). But at some point they WILL be bloody pi**ed and have a cramp in their fingers from deleting all the hatemail.
8)
One can dream, can I not?
*I need replacement products for GW Base Ceramite White. Something that covers equally well. Suggestions via PM
Yep. Emailed too.
The only thing left of theirs that i buy are their paints. Done with that too now. Need to find another paint supplier now. :-\
I'd love to see them pull this crap in the US.
GW's Ian Livingstone in White Dwarf in 1978: "nobody will gain from this strict enforcement of copyright laws" (Thanks too Erwin Villutrú Friðriksson)
Things have come around full circle. Maybe it's a kind of payback?
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/67991_556088641075937_25322784_n.jpg)
Quote from: Luddite on 09 February 2013, 10:51:23 AM
Yep. Emailed too.
The only thing left of theirs that i buy are their paints. Done with that too now. Need to find another paint supplier now. :-\
I'd love to see them pull this crap in the US.
They ARE actually doing this in the US....
Have you tried Vallejo Model Colour? I have a colour match sheet and Vallejos are sold by Pendraken - so much the better.
@OldenBUA: Hypocrism at its best, oh wait...maybe they want to say OTHER companies should not enforce THEIR copyrights so GW can keep stealing from them? :-\
@Sebigboss: No, it's just that in the wargames hobby things have changed a lot since 1978. And sometimes not for the better.
Alex (who can't even remember when he last bought anything from GW).
Fully agree Alex. BUT part of the blame has to go to gamers themselves as they do not resist detrimental change.
Well, maybe 12 year olds (target of GW) are not exactly aware of the consequences or able to enforce beneficial change.
Luckily you and me are. And I have made this perfectly clear for years. GW does not get any business from me unless ...
Of course they do not care about you or me...but they will care about all hell breaking loose around them AND people telling them repeatedly WHY they refuse buying. In Germany we have sayings about this. The one drop that bursts the barrel. Meaning you get away with a lot of crap but one day a very little thing will cause a lot of damage.
I had to learn cooperating is often better than starting a war. GW did not release some Tyranid models as they saw no real market. Chapterhouse did and made some money. Now instead of making fools of themselves in court (have you read the transcripts? - ridiculous this company) they shoudl have called the Chapterhouse people and tell them they are willing to give them a licence - for some %% - should Chapterhouse refuse you can still escalate but nothing is gained from ONE company starting thermonuclear war anytime they want someting. Whether they are right or not at one point Fallout will reach them. Same for anyone. I learned my lesson. For the sake of wargaming I hope GW will learn theirs before it is too late. What if the judge rules that "Space Marines" is genric or even worse: The original user (1934 I believe) has the sole right to use it. GW would seize to exist over night.
Well, what if it appears that space marines aren't like the space marines in the book? They can have the same name but be totally different.
Imagine the people who made the 'Alien' films. What if they had decided to name the colonial marianes space marines instead. Same name but very different profile. Not bioengineered killing machines but only kick-ass marines who happen to operate in space.
You can protect your IP, but you can't 'call dibs' on a name, that's just absurd.
I can only imagine, that for doing such a thing, GW is starting to feel the pressure and competition of other (better) manufacturers with an increasing rate, making desperate attempts to safeguard their income.
Are their any manufacturers worse than GW??? :-\
Yes there are. But not in a attitude kind of way.
Anyone fancy wearing one of these into their local shop?
http://www.cafepress.co.uk/mf/57426529/space-marines-usa_tshirt
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/556138081/space_marines_usa_light_tshirt.jpg?color=AshGrey&height=460&width=460)
:D
Not that I can entice you but:
Pic of you gaming in local GW WITH one of those Orcs they call employees?
:P :D
Moonraker (1979) - that had 'space marines'
Current leader is a novel from 1932. As I said trademarks =/= copyrights.
But there is a limit how you can register and defend either of the two.
GW apparently has gone absolutely bonkers with its staff instructions, over a pint in the local with the GW store manager he told me that because of the new edicts from on high this week he had to tell 2 lads to leave the shop when they were talking about another ruleset, had to tell one guy he couldnt play with his Space Marines in the store because they were the really old "beaky" marines and had to stop another lad doing a quick repair on his ogre using generic superglue. If you stifle knowledge of any other wargame/products/etc it will cease to exist, are these guys living in cloud cookoo land? Even spotty moron 12 year olds, the GW target audience, have heard of the Interweb, mind you they might not be able to spell wargaming when Google opened, being conditioned to refer to it as "The Hobby".
Which makes me believe they are really at their wits end. :D
Those who deny existence of reality are close to extinction - mark my words. We will see a decline in sales despite massive price increase.
:o
Huh ?....I'm just astounded.
Is there another firm out there that's starting to truly bother them sales wise, so they feel they need to do this ?
Are they trying to drive all their customers away....Or just certain ones who might speak heresy within the earshot of others ?
Bizarre.
Cheers - Phil.
I think Mantic might be starting to erode away a few sales, their ranges are expanding in both Fantasy and Sci-Fi (I nearly wrote 40k there) and lets face it there's a huge price differential between the two. I know that you'll never be able to use Mantic stuff in the GW stores, but if rumour is to be believed those will be starting to close anyway.
Quote from: GordonY on 12 February 2013, 11:02:36 PM
...but if rumour is to be believed those will be starting to close anyway.
That wouldn't be a surprise at all. With Woolworths, Comet and HMV all going in recent memory, it's hard to see how any high street presence can survive in the niche market of The Hobby ;) . I've looked at retail units several times over the years, and even in somewhere cheap like Middlesbrough, you're looking at £12k per year rent on something the size of your living room. Add on running costs and business rates, and you're at £20k per year in no time.
It's the same for any of the online mass discounters like Maelstrom and Wayland, etc. When you're working on such low margins (circa 25% tops on most of the product lines), you need to take 4x everything to cover costs. Even estimating £15k per year for the unit = £60k of sales needed. Want to take a basic wage? Need another £60k of sales. Need a member of staff to help out? Another £50k. It soon adds up.
GW are now blocking people who disagree with them on social networks, see http://johnstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/space-marines-streisand-effect.html for more. You MUST bow down before the mighty GW, you shalt not game in anything other then GW rules/models/paints/dice and clothing, thou wilt not mention that there is anything beyond GW. and of course thou must remember the 11th commandment, GW holds copyright on all of the English language because GW has had most of them in print, so we must..........
GW Exec cocks his Lawyermaster 3000 (TM) and points it towards the entire English speaking population of the Northern hemisphere.......
to be continued, the next time someone uses the phrase Space Marine in electronic text, oh no, not me, arghhhhhhh...................
They'll go the way of WRG in due course. Remember when that was the only game in town?
I would have thought that Wargames Foundry were an object lesson in how quickly a highly viable company can go down the tubes. :-\
Quote from: Techno on 12 February 2013, 10:49:08 PM
:o
Huh ?....I'm just astounded.
Is there another firm out there that's starting to truly bother them sales wise, so they feel they need to do this ?
Are they trying to drive all their customers away....Or just certain ones who might speak heresy within the earshot of others ?
Bizarre.
Cheers - Phil.
Privateer Press, Mantic, specialist manufacturers, not necessarily complete or in that particular order.
Rather let us have a look at that point. I do not think Leon (or Dave for that matter) would call in the firing squad if I asked them about compatibility of their merchandise with company XYZ. As a good salesman they would prefer to use the opportunity to make a sale in brushes, bases, colours.... and maybe even let me look, touch and feel THEIR model....I may not buy it then and there BUT I WILL remember the kind HELP they offered me - which will lead to more sales in the future.
Lets face it, "the market" is quite mature. New companies are having hard time to get going not only financially (see Leon's summary) but also you need a certain market share. By no means I am a marketing expert but if your business name is connected with such nuclear warfare as GW has done just the last few years that is not a good publicity. By all means GW CAN pull all this crap but last time I checked there was no law in an country that I MUST buy from them.
@Leon: The stores do cost them a lot, thats true but if they really close them down they will loose amassive advantage over other companies. There is no other gaming store that has GW "only" as a programme, at least not officially. But then again their contracts they force on independent sellers tell them what they can sell to whom. So the country ain't as free as I thought apparently.
GW has quite a margin. A battleforce retails for 80 Euros (at least it did at some point) and the buying price for the retailer was 48 Euros and some change. As I do not think they are loosing money there OR on the 20% retail that are rumoured for staff sales I would LOVE to be in their position marginwise. Here is also my main point of criticism. With sales effectively declining (prises up 15 %, sales up 1 % is NOT good) a company should concentrate on keeping customers rather than try to recruit new audience in a declining age group that, moreover, has different interests from wargaming.
Coming to the current issue of forbidding other opinions (lol - try it) and nuking everyone that slightly touches their sphere of interest. I do not see the case for GW, nor do I see any benefits from their actions. Shitstorm on the net aside, why would you crush a small cmpany (Chapterhouse) that produces, no offence, crappy kits of stuff you do not want to do due to costs. Call them, get royalties and officially endorse them on their HP. Boosts THEIR business AND YOURS (cross selling, buy product to fit with kit, etc.) : What if GW really wins in court against CHS? CHS files bancruptcy and re-opens under another name. What hast GW won? Nothing except some experience how NOT to handle such situation. Well of course GWs lawyers have made a nice profit as well.
From a strategic and management point of view I can say it is not only me who shakes the head in academic disbelieve. I can say 3 of my professors are wondering why GW is still in business but they as well see the decline...
Besides, being "banned" from GW news (non existant actually) is not a bad thing in my eyes...
Quote from: Luddite on 09 February 2013, 10:51:23 AM
Yep. Emailed too.
The only thing left of theirs that i buy are their paints. Done with that too now. Need to find another paint supplier now. :-\
Luddite, Coat D'arms is made by the orriginal manufacturer of the orriginal citadel paints and is much better than the current GW paint. The link is for a comparison chart for coat D'arms and both old and new GW paint names.
http://www.hiveworldterra.co.uk/Article/view_CoatDArmsConversionChart.html
Talking of bans of various things in GW stores, a while back a few friends of mine were banned from the local store, just because they were Reenactors/LARPers, they took offense to these guys even talking about their other hobbies whilst in the shop??!!
I only ever buy GW stuff second hand now, and I keep my kids from even going in to their stores or buying from them just on principle, there are so much better companies and places to get all your hobby stuff from now, I'm surprised they still have shops open in this age of austerity!
I hope they dissapear up their own arse very soon!!
Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning GW but its just business. GW are at the top and on a pedestal soo high that the nearest competitors aren't fighting for a handhold they are still at the bottom getting their climbing gear on. Gw will make damn sure through whatever means that it stays that way.
Quotehad to tell one guy he couldnt play with his Space Marines in the store because they were the really old "beaky" marines and had to stop another lad doing a quick repair on his ogre using generic superglue
Try turning up at work in a Next store wearing a suit from last seasons range or a suit from Topman. Same principle.
Quote(prises up 15 %, sales up 1 % is NOT good)
Yes it is good business! Growth in sales in return for manufacturing/selling less products!
How many stores do they have 300 odd?? In the current economic climate. Expansion into literature which is very popular and computer games. Like it or not guys they are going to be around a longtime.
Matt (who doesn't really like GW but finds their paints good and buys the odd book and longs for the GW of 20 years ago which churned out some really cool spin off games - Blood bowl Space hulk etc)
Well Matt I do contest it is good business for a simple fact: Their machines are still casting out at 100 % but only (lets say) 85 % gets sold. So you just overproduced, wasted time, energy and put mileage on your casting machine that does not earn you the profit you calculated into that machines' investment.
Highly inefficient for people that are supposed to be the top of the industry.... A real strategist would not worry about anything but how to actually sell EVERYTHING those machnines can churn out.
Then it is also quite a PR goof. Stating that your sales are unrelated to price and your own figures proove otherwise.
I totally concur with you about business, but I have learned (also the hard way) that a bit more, shall we say, ethical behaviour, is better for the industry AND even more for you. Stupid example from the computer industry. Why did Bill Gates lend 150 Millions to Apple. He should have been happy when they go bust. Well think of Bill what you want but he knew that if Apple goes bust the industry will suffer. GW does not realise that most of their doing is hurting the industry and hurts themselves in the long run.
A bit more stakeholder orientation (shareholders are just one sort of stakeholders really) would do them well. I may not be an orator but usually my advice concerning strategy and finance is not the worst to follow.
New Tau Release sees an XV 104 Riptide Battlesuit. :-\
"Riptide" was a series in the 80s whose rights now lie with Sony. Core point is that the actors in this series, like the Riptide Miniature from GW were acting where they were needed most. >:(
Casual email to Sony to enforce an eventual copyright sent yesterday by some gamers I know, today by me. :d
Those who sit in the glass house better not throw stones...sometimes they bounce back. :D
Last news :
They forbid to their US retailers to do Online sells.
:-\
Reminds me of that great classic:
"and now, the end is near, and so face the final curtain..."
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Does anyone need Popcorn while waiting with me to see the curtain fall?
I sincerely hope Sony DOES have the rights and DOES enforce some of GWs medicine upon GW. Would be quite humilating I daresay.
But even then I doubt that GW will learn behaviour...or maybe Dave and Leon (among others) spoiled me too much. :-\
Well, it's worth taking a bit of time to read through GW's IP Policy on their website.
They're a business like any other (although they talk about 'The Hobby', they long ago abandoned that as anything other than a marketing ploy) and so will act to protect their business. I guess they can afford to lose a few peripheral customers like me.
In terms of the seemingly aggressive IP lawyers, it actually makes sense for them. The problem with the various IP laws (trademarks, copyrights, etc.) is that the 'use it or lose it' principle applies. So every now and then GW needs to pick on a small company to show that they are actively exerting their IP rights.
This 'space marine' thing though seems particularly bizarre, although i suspect they chose it for its promienence and importance to their core IP.
I'm in a dillemma now though as my paints are coming up for a stock replacement...do i stick to my guns or cave in and buy their paint?
You dare! Ask Leon to sell you some Vallejos!. I have a list to find the equivalents you need.
PM me
I know a lot of people swear by Vallejo.
The few i've bought have been thin and disappointing (red and blue for my FPW French).
Also i hate their pots.
:(
If I refused to purchase from every company that I believed weren't acting ethically I would be hungry and naked.
I'd also be out of a job as I have to do things many would consider unethical on a regular basis.
Never had that problem except one single pot. Vallejos need to be shaken for quite some time so the components mix well. Then shake some more.
I have switched all my colours and inks to them. One exception: Armour Wash from PP.
You could always switch pots. Another idea would be to look at Coat d'Arms which have the "old old old GW range".
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 20 March 2013, 12:05:32 PM
If I refused to purchase from every company that I believed weren't acting ethically I would be hungry and naked.
I'd also be out of a job as I have to do things many would consider unethical on a regular basis.
Admitted. But as long as I have the choice to buy either from a company that acts like they are human being OR a company whose CEO publicly says he dos not give a fu.. about those 75 % who do NOT buy anything at any price then MY choice is clear.
Should I have no Alternative, my choice is also clear. I will look for another hobby.
Cheers
Roland
also has pendraken not benefited greatly from GW releasing the various warmater variants??? and other companies spin offs like BKC??? (not a rhetorical question I really would be interested to know)
(please note I'm not a GW fanboy, haven't been in a shop for years and only buy their paints (don't like droppers))
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 20 March 2013, 12:08:28 PM
Admitted. But as long as I have the choice to buy either from a company that acts like they are human being OR a company whose CEO publicly says he dos not give a fu.. about those 75 % who do NOT buy anything at any price then MY choice is clear.
Should I have no Alternative, my choice is also clear. I will look for another hobby.
Cheers
Roland
Like.
Morality is doing what's right irrespective of what you're told.
Personally, although i'm politically active, i'm of the opinion that in our current capitalist hegemony, the only
actual 'democratic power you have is the excercise of consumer choice.
Don't like Amazon's non-payment of tax and selling of fois gras? I no longer buy from Amazon.
Don't like Starbucks non-payment of tax? No more grandemoccachoccadodawhatsit-sludge for me.
Don't like GW bullying SMEs? No more GW products for me - possibly.
Etc.
Etc.
And as for my corporate life...i guess i'm lucky in that i work in a field upholding people's human rights, so my daily chores are in large part 'ethical'...but then that's as a result of the choices i've made. I've left jobs/workplaces with ethics i disagreed with (like, funnily enough, GW!)...
Quote from: Matt of Munslow on 20 March 2013, 12:09:53 PM
also has pendraken not benefited greatly from GW releasing the various warmater variants??? and other companies spin offs like BKC??? (not a rhetorical question I really would be interested to know)
Over the years we have done, yes, and as you say, so have a lot of other companies. Have a look around at any of the shows, and you'll see a whole load of traders who quite possibly wouldn't exist without GW.
When Warmaster first appeared, we got a lot of extra sales coming in, and similarly with WMA/WMM as well. Once the initial flurry was over though, it slowed considerably, and since they stopped supporting it themselves, our 1000pt Ancient / Medieval packs have been very slow sellers. So much so, we're considering scrapping them for something else.
Hmm... how about going the other route Leon. Get a decent ruleset to push the sales?
One thing that works for you is that your resource (metal) can take many shapes. Hence the former WMA army suddenly becomes the new Falkland range.
Also Pendraken should invest into flexibility to reduce turnaround time of above exercise. Even now you are surprising all buyers (at least such is my opinion) with a great deal of speed, quality and also depth of the catalogue.
The problem I see with certain ranges is that interest does indeed vary over time. Lets imagine Fantasy will have a comeback so you need to spin up production there. Then after a while it is SciFi so you switch emphasis there. A difficult exercise IF you are lead by the market rather than create your own momentum.
Another thing working for manufacturers like Pendraken is that the age average is much higher so sales should be relatively stable. In my eyes it would be the wrong step to reduce the variety. Admited some core ranges will need to be radily available wheres others can have a longer delivery time - you know your sales much better than I do.
But seriously you should think about rulesets. At start how about getting some WWII sets, Fantasy etc. There is so much out there and surely an in-house project would be doable. Me myself and I have looked at writing my own ruleset (universal) and cover the rest with "armybooks". But it is a long and painful process for one person alone.
But btt: Not only is Leon nice enough not to bully me should I post pics of painted Pendraken figures (or is that because he knows he does not have a stance? :-\ ) no, the attitude at Pendraken is completely different from what you see at the big 3. Hell, even the guys from mantic are angels when compared to the devil himself. And no, Leon also does have sales in mind as this is what gets him and the family fed. It is a different approach and so far those companies do not even have to DO anything. GW forces customers to go elsewhere. Well..I do not complain and I am sure Leon does not either.
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 20 March 2013, 12:48:58 PM
But seriously you should think about rulesets. At start how about getting some WWII sets, Fantasy etc. There is so much out there and surely an in-house project would be doable. Me myself and I have looked at writing my own ruleset (universal) and cover the rest with "armybooks". But it is a long and painful process for one person alone.
We've got a few irons in the fire there, with the possibility for sets for Medieval, FPW and WW1. Again though, it comes back to time, and needing other people to take the lead on these things. Not having a gaming background myself, I don't have anywhere near a working knowledge of what makes a good set of rules, so I have to rely on other people's opinions. And Dave only manages a couple of games a year, so we're not in a position to playtest anything either.
Rules are a top priority though, so I'll find a way to make it work.
Hmmm...maybe when I have the time I can assist somehow...how about distributing my tuleset / armybooks? :-\
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 20 March 2013, 01:43:24 PM
Hmmm...maybe when I have the time I can assist somehow...how about distributing my tuleset / armybooks? :-\
We'd be looking for solid rulesets which have been playtested thoroughly, and we can then come to some arrangement to bring them under the Pendraken banner. There'd be a lot to work through, will they work with our figures, can we put suitably priced armies together to sell with them, etc.
Ruleset in mind is universal aka covers all periods and dimensions (sea, air, land, space) but can surely be split accordingly.
Thorough playtesting to ensure validity of the game engine is essential. I want all armies to be equal.
Reminds me of this:
http://youtu.be/F49jUjY_xVw
Meerkats keep popping up on this forum. Are we going to get a few models soon?
Quote from: FierceKitty on 22 March 2013, 01:18:33 AM
Meerkats keep popping up on this forum. Are we going to get a few models soon?
You obviously don't get the "compare the meerkats" ads in Thailand, FK. Alexandr is a megastar!
www.comparethemeerkat.com/ (http://www.comparethemeerkat.com/)