I will be using black powder for FPW. I wondered what rule amendments players use to get the correct feel.
I have looked at some old posts and got some good ideals but need more details, please.
My ideals so far but please give me yours so here we go.
For 10mm , use cm's.
Chassepot range 36, neddle 24. At half range use 4 fire dice to reflect better rate of fire.
Pruss artillery fire 60, French 48, machine gun 36. Not sure if this enough advantage for the Prussians ?
Higher command rolls for Prussians.
Unit factors French , Prussian line, H to H, 6 . 4 morale save, 3 stamina.
French, Prussian Guard, H to H 7, 3 morale save , 4 stamina.
Zoaves, Turcos , H to H 7, 4 morale save, 4 stamina.
Bavarians , H to H 6 , 5 morale save, 3 stamina.
Would you give Prussian line a better morale than French ?
Any feedback would be appreciated , and would be great to know how you play it, many amendments and what they are , and why the change?
Thanks for your help.
We use BP for our campaign, send me your email Harry and I'll send you our 'house rules'.
Mad Lemmey
Chassepot range 36, neddle 24. At half range use 4 fire dice to reflect better rate of fire.
The Chassepot should significantly outrange the Dreyse. I'd say at least 2:1 and probably more like 4:1. The Chassepot was lethal at 1000yards, whereas the Dresye was rarely effective beyond 2-300 yards.
Pruss artillery fire 60, French 48, machine gun 36. Not sure if this enough advantage for the Prussians ?
Prussians used steel, quick firing, breech-loading long range heavy artillery that totally outclassed the French muzzle-loaders. The war was in fact, largely a duel between Prussian artillery and French rifles. ;D As far as i'm aware, they were all still open sight though - scholars may correct me on this. Did they use forward observers?
There were no machineguns in the FPW. The French had the Mitrailleuse, but this was really an 'organ gun' in cannon form. It was also used in an artillery support role along with the heavy guns, rather than close infantry support so never realised its full potential. I'd classify it as a wide-spreading but poor quality artillery.
Would you give Prussian line a better morale than French ?
Not sure what BP 'Morale' represents but the key difference between French and Prussian infantry was initiative.
The Prussians were well commanded with a professional officer class, and its soldier were well trained and highly motiviated. They fought mobile warfare with an aggressive principle of closing with the enemy.
The French were dreadfully commanded with a static, defensive mindset. Their infantry almost always dug in and concentrated on the long range power of the Chassepot. They rarely if ever moved, except to launch a counter charge.
Some way of modelling this would be essential i'd say.
In terms of 'morale', Prussian morale tended to be very high until they came under French fire from the Chassepot. These rifles inflicted dreadful wounds at ranges far greater than the Prussians could fire, and tended to inflict tremendous shock and demoralisation on them.
We use 12 for needle, 36 for chasspot.
French we class as unreliable.
Thanks Mad Lemmy for the info you sent.
Hard to think that the range of the Prussian rifles was so limiting . I think I will go with 18 cm as this seems less brutal.
I still like 4 dice for half range but this is a matter of taste.
Would you allow the Prussian artillery to fire overhead because of their superior range ?
Thanks luddite,
Take your points on board , I am trying to get the balance in the rules to reflect these points.
Thanks again.
That's the great thing about BP, you get to modify the troops as you need too! :D I can see why Luddite has used those mods! 8)
Here are some of our reasonings:
We classify all Prussian heavy (6 pounder) artillery as howitzers, so the fire two dice no matter what range up to 60cm, and can fire overhead, but have a minimum range of 8cm (we use a cm scale btw). Prussian light guns shoot to 48cm. French artillery is limited to 48 for hgeavies and 36 for light to try and reflect the awful ammunition that was used at the start of the war. Late war they reverted to shells with precussion fuses, so we would lengthen the range then.
Rifles: We were working on ranges based upon the factt the chasspot had, effectively, a 3x range of the Needle rifle in action (c1200m vs c300) hence the ranges. The French are rated as 'sharpshooters' to reflect their more agressive small arms fire. Previously Prussians were rated as 'Large' or 'stubborn', but that made them impossible to stop (rather than just hard now). Remember you get a bonus for small arms at 'point blank' too (6cm or less).
Command and Morale: Prussian generals start at 8, Corps commanders 9, Army Commanders 10. so are more likely to maneouver when needed. French are 8 and then (mostly) 9 for corps and army, some differ Macmahon is a 10, Bazaine a (CENSORED- he's not been used yet), but remember they are unreliable which stops most advances in their tracks! Both the French and Prussians could easily be 'vailient' or 'stubborn' because nearly all formations stood in the face of amazing odds during 1870, lions led by donkeys! +1 moral if the Emperor or HM Keonig is present can be fun too!
Quote from: Luddite on 14 January 2013, 01:42:32 PM
Pruss artillery fire 60, French 48, machine gun 36. Not sure if this enough advantage for the Prussians ?
Prussians used steel, quick firing, breech-loading long range heavy artillery that totally outclassed the French muzzle-loaders. The war was in fact, largely a duel between Prussian artillery and French rifles. ;D As far as i'm aware, they were all still open sight though - scholars may correct me on this. Did they use forward observers?
Not unless it was fortress guns.
There were no machineguns in the FPW. The French had the Mitrailleuse, but this was really an 'organ gun' in cannon form. It was also used in an artillery support role along with the heavy guns, rather than close infantry support so never realised its full potential. I'd classify it as a wide-spreading but poor quality artillery.
We use the early MG rule (jams on a roll of a 1, crippled the French on four occasions now)
The Prussians were well commanded with a professional officer class, and its soldier were well trained and highly motiviated. They fought mobile warfare with an aggressive principle of closing with the enemy.
The French were dreadfully commanded with a static, defensive mindset. Their infantry almost always dug in and concentrated on the long range power of the Chassepot. They rarely if ever moved, except to launch a counter charge.
Some way of modelling this would be essential i'd say.
Unreliable
Good here init! 8) I love the fact we are all agreeing, just putting opur own interpretations on it!
Indeed Lemmey!
Its been a good long while since i played BP so i'm hazy on the rules specifics.
Mitrailleuse
Although considered an 'early MG' it really wasn't, and for me crucially the French didn't use it like one. They were deployed to the rear with the artillery and used in that fire support role.
I would see them best represented as poor quality artillery as a result.
'Unreliable'
What does this rule mean in BP?
As long as its effect is to limit the movement of the French you should be on safe ground i think.
The French infantry were in fact VERY reliable. You could rely on them to not move from the positions they deployed in! ;D ;D
FPW does provide some very interesting tactical frictions and challenges.
Crudely;
The Chassepot outshot the Dreyse and the Prussian artillery outshot the French.
The Prussians were highly mobile (sometimes too mobile, with their tendency to impetuously 'march towards the sound of the guns') and relied on closing to short or even bayonet range. They also took the beastly expediant of actually training their officer class to fight battles (using Kriegspeil if i recall)
The French were almost completely static, relying on the Chassepot to shred the Prussians (which it often did).
An unusual conflict on the cusp of tactical and technological change.
Quote from: Luddite on 14 January 2013, 01:42:32 PM
[iDid they use forward observers?
No. You need guns with recoil mechanisms to stop the piece changing position each time it fires for indirect fire. You also need some form of instantaneous communication from the observer to the guns - and I'm not sure the field telephone was around at the time.
Yeah i was pretty sure but thought it best to let others confirm.
FPW is really quite interesting. It could be seen as the first acts in a 7-year conflict around the rise of Germany couldn't it?
FPW, WWI, and WWII being a phased conflict around the formation of Germany and its emergence onto the world stage as a late-coming 'Imperial Power'.
Quote from: Luddite on 15 January 2013, 04:48:29 PM
FPW is really quite interesting. It could be seen as the first acts in a 7-year conflict around the rise of Germany couldn't it?
Sound like a comment on the SYW, doesn't it?
Seriously, folks, no other war has shaped today's world as much. A different outcome = an Austrian Germany, not a Prussian one, a French India, a French America, no British empire, a French Australia and colonial Africa (
mon Dieu!), no French revolution, possibly no American rebellion, God knows what effects on Russian and Polish history; unthinkable.
Sorry, hijack.
Mea maxima cvlpa!
Great idea for an alternative history novel though.
Oh, and the Latin "V" in culpa - very classy! 8)
Fighting a rearguard action for education.
Or an advance action for chisel salesman! :D
http://exmouthwargames.blogspot.co.uk/2012_04_01_archive.html
Here's a link to my BP mods for 1859-1871.
"It could be seen as the first acts in a 7-year conflict around the rise of Germany couldn't it?"
I think that is better ascribed to 1866, which brought many of the smaller german states within Prussian influence after their defeat: eg Bavaria, Baden, Wurttemburg
Chad