(http://www.thepennysaved.com/siteimages/gnomes.jpg)
Just ignore phase 1 of this cunning plan, but how about:
Phase 2 = put pictures of painted miniatures on the store page??
This thought came to my mind yesterday, while browsing through several webstores of miniature manufacturers. Before I realized it, I had several packs of polish 10th mechanized infantry and some of those nice Gebirgsjäger (Gorgon studios) in my shopping basket. Do I really need those? Well most obviously not, but the figures were too tempting. :o
It's a noble deed of Leon not to tempt us to strain our wallets more than necessary, but seriously.. at the end of the day pendraken is a business. And as long most ranges look like this on the website, I guess no one is too eager to buy some more packs than initially planed:
(http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ProductImages/GenericThumb.png)
At the end of the day most wargamers are grown up kids, who want new shiny toys or at least look at them and make grand plans what to purchase next.
Just my 2 cents on this..what does the rest of the forum say? Maybe I'm completly wrong and there's no noticeable difference in sales between ranges with/without pics in the store :-/
+ 1 to this!
ALthough most of the time, when i'm looking at something without a picture, i type for example:"pendraken 88" in goole images, and most of the time you get shown some nice results.
I mis-ordered 2 opel blitz trucks in the wrong version though, maybe a pic could have prevented that. But in the end, the version i got was equally nice and useable :D
What Leon needs are some volunteers to help coordinate something like this.
It would be a damn big project ! ;)....There would be a hell of a lot of sorting out to do it properly.
But the idea is very sound.
Cheers - Phil.
I think Leon's well aware of the issue, and it does remain an issue.
I'm the sort fo the chap likes to see what i'm buying.
I definately reckon that Pendraken sales will be depressed for lack of online images. Presumably there are sales stats that back this up.
However, as i understand it this is a MAMMOTH task, hence the continued proliferation of 'shadow images'.
:(
Well, seeing most of the stuff i got for christmass is still not assembled, i don't mind taking pictures if needs be. All of it is ww2 though. Off course if we all send in pictures, they won't look very uniform.
But every item has a review entry. Can we post pics in that or only text? Otherwise we could help the guys out by posting our pics on that :-bd
First up, let me make one thing clear. No one is more annoyed by the lack of pictures than me! It's a constant bugbear which we get emails about all the time, and it means that I have to do more work trying to find pics on the Forum, or online, to reply to queries. So why haven't we fixed it? Basically, it comes down to not having the time. Everyone drastically underestimates the amount of time it takes to get a photo up onto a website:
If we take a batch of 20 codes, each one having 1 or 2 poses. Casting them up is going to take 1 hour, and then another 1 hour to glue them to sticks and blackwash them. Leave them to dry for a bit, and then onto the photo-ing, which requires 3-4 shots of each to allow for focussing issues. This is another hour. With the pics in hand, we can go to the computer, where we need to edit each pic, crop it, and collate the different poses into a single 'code' image. Resizing and then uploading them to the website takes this part of the job to near enough 2 hours. So, that's 5 hours work for 20 codes.
We've currently got about 3000 codes which require images, equating to 750 hours of work needed! :o Even if we somehow managed to squeeze 10 hours a week for this, it would still take 18 months to get all the images up on the website. We don't have 10 hours a week though unfortunately, some weeks we'd be lucky to grab 1-2 hours. The fact that I've not photo'd the releases from Nov / Dec shows how little time we have spare each week.
So, can other people help out?
Yes, and we are working with a couple of people who are helping us with this. The stumbling block comes down to how the images are presented and keeping them all in a similar style. If the pics are going to be bare, the figures need to be blackwashed and then photo'd in a similar style to the new ACW range for example ([url]http://www.pendraken.co.uk/19th-Century-c15/NEW-American-Civil-War-NEW-sc281/) For painted pics, the paint job needs to be good first off, and then the individual code needs to be completely in view, with nothing else getting in the way. I know some folk will say that anything is better than nothing, but we'd rather get it right first time, so we don't have to go back and spend more time editing new images in.
Also, we're reluctant to just start sending loads of figures to people on the promise of painted pics of them at the end, as we've been burnt by a few people in the past, who've just wandered off with the figures, or popped them on the side where they've never resurfaced unfortunately.
Could we pay someone to do it?
Not really, not with those levels of work required, as we don't have the budget to pay ourselves most of the time, let alone painting/photo staff!
Sales-wise, I've got no idea whether having pics boosts sales of those ranges, and it's a hard one to judge. I'd expect pics to help, but I know other traders have seen next to no difference when they've added images to their websites. Most of our Ancients ranges have images, but sales on those ranges are generally slow? Is that because we need wider ranges then? Where does it balance out?
I will make everyone a promise though, that we'll have more images up on the website this year. A lot of these will be blackwashed figure pics, but I will be pestering the Forum for some WWII vehicle images further down the line. I might also make a small note on the Painting Comp whereby Pendraken may use the images on the website!
8)
Random idea, have a 'Not photographed yet' category this year, with a stipulation that all entries must Not already be in the catalog, but any entries will automatically be posted! Just need a note saying painted by...
I've chatted with Leon about this before, and I know his preference is to have consistent photos of each figure - i.e. bare metal, black washed on a white background. And while this is a great goal - as Leon says above this is a mammoth effort.
I do think there has to be an interim goal - which in my opinion would be get as many photos up as possible. One area that is currently odd is that new ranges often get photos of greens in the newsletter (which is great) but then don't get photos on the website. Even the photos of the greens are way better than no photo.
Then there are photos by us fans - I have taken loads of the WWII vehicles I have bought, and of various fantasy creatures - mainly because I found it hard to know what was what.
I do like Lemmy's idea for the painting comp.
Leon, if you do get a fair few requests through for photos, just think how many people can't be bothered to ask? Also all the time you spend chasing down photos could be used better. Once you have chased down a photo, get it linked on the sales website, then anyone looking can see it. Also the more photos up on the sales site, the less requests you will get, which will save you time. I know there are lots of photos out there, but it is a real effort to search through the different places to try to find them.
If a photo of each code is too much work, then how about a sampling of each range - its generally enough to let people know what they look like?
I think photos generally help - I was looking for tree creatures before christmas and on the two sites I looked at I ended up getting a second pack because the figures looked great.
Quote from: petercooman on 09 January 2013, 05:23:27 PM
But every item has a review entry. Can we post pics in that or only text? Otherwise we could help the guys out by posting our pics on that :-bd
I've tried this but couldn't work out how to get it to work.
A little idea, anyone ever looked at the essex site? 15mm chaps?
They have an easy way for their photos. You push the item you want and get a pop up with another page that just contains pictures. Many times these are the entire range. (so fpr example a page with germans for WW2) THey just have the pics in the order that the codes folllow on the site.
It's not the most good looking solution, but it might be easier to obtain as a temporary solution.
Quote from: petercooman on 09 January 2013, 05:23:27 PM
But every item has a review entry. Can we post pics in that or only text? Otherwise we could help the guys out by posting our pics on that :-bd
I did that once - here: http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FPW2-p3634/
Could easily do a few more...
Could we have a thread....with 'sub threads' in the photos section JUST for photos and captions....
By that I mean absolutely no comments....Simply pictures stating which codes are displayed ?
Hmmm...Not sure that that's a goer....But I'll throw it into the pot.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: fred 12df on 09 January 2013, 08:20:30 PM
I've tried this but couldn't work out how to get it to work.
Easy...when you click in the "leave a comment" box, there's a little pic icon...click that & you're away :)
Works today. When I tried some months ago I just got a comment of 13.jpg which wasn't too helpful.
I just tried it too, and it doesn't want my pic :o
If people add nice pics to those comment boxes on the website, I should be able to pull them out and use them in the images as well. 8)
Ha, now it works!! It just came on later after i checked!
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/BR30a-p4164/
I've added 10 or so to British WWII. Its fairly quick, though the Disqs software sometimes gets a bit confused.
Hi Leon I hope you are fully recovered now. :-&
You mentioned you were not sure of the value of photos commercially. From my own point of view I started my Pendraken Napoleonic’s purely on the strength of the “in the pipeline†pictures that preceded the 1809 range. I have also bought a lot of WGS tanks because I can see their high quality before I buy.
I think you are correct in wanting a standard image of each type as I have consistently been put off Minifigs because of their awful photos.
I would like to suggest a possible solution:
1. Utilise your loyal customers to help you
2. Pay your customers a token say 10 foot or 5 mounted figures of their choice for each photo you use (£1.34 retail cost to you?) and no payment for those you do not
3. As you are paying for the photo, specify clearly how you want the figure portrayed i.e. white background with the figure black-washed, cropped to your specification and size. Basically ready to go
4. Set up a post-box for the photos such as a dedicated email address where all the pics will arrive for your perusal and can be stored or extracted from
I am sure there would be quite a few takers for this deal and you will at least get greater coverage with little outlay.
Shall I get my coat? :(
Cheers, Rob :)
What Fred and Peter have done is more than acceptable, I for one would much rather see a crappy picture/paintjob of a figure/model/code than none. So Fred & Peter show us some more, go on, you know you want to.
Thanks Gordon I'll aim to post some more crappy photos ! :-\ :'(.
;)
Quote from: GordonY on 10 January 2013, 06:28:07 AM
What Fred and Peter have done is more than acceptable, I for one would much rather see a crappy picture/paintjob of a figure/model/code than none. So Fred & Peter show us some more, go on, you know you want to.
Quote from: fred 12df on 10 January 2013, 07:53:12 AM
Thanks Gordon I'll aim to post some more crappy photos ! :-\ :'(.
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: fred 12df on 10 January 2013, 07:53:12 AM
Thanks Gordon I'll aim to post some more crappy photos ! :-\ :'(.
;)
:o
=O =O =O =O.....Yes Fred.....More crappy photo's as soon as you can..... =O =O =O =O =O ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Seriously, though, I would have thought that they were ideal. OK, they don't match the existing pics of unpainted items, but they give the punter exactly what he needs - a good notion of what he would be getting. :-bd
I can't upload anymore though, as that was the only photo that was crappy ;D
I might have to do this later with some of the FPW range that Nik hasn't already got to (it's an arms race)! :D
Quote from: mad lemmey on 10 January 2013, 09:26:49 AM
I might have to do this later with some of the FPW range that Nik hasn't already got to (it's an arms race)! :D
;D Fill yer boots ML, fill yer boots...I'm all lurgied up & don't have the energy for this at the moment... ;)
Quote from: Rob on 10 January 2013, 01:05:12 AM
I would like to suggest a possible solution:
1. Utilise your loyal customers to help you
2. Pay your customers a token say 10 foot or 5 mounted figures of their choice for each photo you use (£1.34 retail cost to you?) and no payment for those you do not
3. As you are paying for the photo, specify clearly how you want the figure portrayed i.e. white background with the figure black-washed, cropped to your specification and size. Basically ready to go
4. Set up a post-box for the photos such as a dedicated email address where all the pics will arrive for your perusal and can be stored or extracted from
I am sure there would be quite a few takers for this deal and you will at least get greater coverage with little outlay.
The problem I can see with this Rob is that your "little outlay" of £1.34 (which doesn't include postage costs of course) would, with 3000 codes needing pics, still cost Pendraken over £4k...that's a huge outlay, isn't it?!
Quote from: Leon on 09 January 2013, 08:59:29 PM
If people add nice pics to those comment boxes on the website, I should be able to pull them out and use them in the images as well. 8)
Another idea would be to "reward" such nice people with an annual bag of random figures....also to induce starting yet another range of the excellent merchandise that is offered.
We seem very eager to spend Leon's money for him, n'est ce pas?
I'm much more in favour of just doing it to help out. That way it doesn't cost Leon anything, and let's face it, it's not going to cost us anything either is it? I've gotten amzing service from Leon, so I'd be happy to return the favour and send a few pics in.
My only problem is that I only have figures that already have pics with them. I guess that means I have to order some more. :)
Just done BR168 Policemen, rifles and BR169 Upper class civilians using a black wash.
I overdid the the blackness I think and the background is a bit dark but it was a piece of cake. No problem doing any new bits I've got in future for codes that don't have pictures. :)
Just done Malburian artillery, MAL14, MAL15 & MAL17 (Don't have the 9 pr.)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 10 January 2013, 11:46:42 AM
We seem very eager to spend Leon's money for him, n'est ce pas?
Well see it as a
quid pro quo - he spends too much time encouraging us to spend our money ;)
I've got loads of photos - the hard bit is finding ones of just one code (or just Pendraken figures)
Chucked some more on, various WWII, fantasy accessories and random others
Quote from: nikharwood on 10 January 2013, 10:10:24 AM
The problem I can see with this Rob is that your "little outlay" of £1.34 (which doesn't include postage costs of course) would, with 3000 codes needing pics, still cost Pendraken over £4k...that's a huge outlay, isn't it?!
Hi Nik,
The £1.34 is the retail ((£4.00/30=£0.13333….) times 10 = 1.3333… say £1.34)
The actual cost to Pendraken of a giveaway figure may be difficult to precisely establish as it would vary on total annual company costs divided by how many figures they sell annually. The postage is probably the main cost obstacle.
Anyway it was just a suggestion for a token method of paying people, there are many other things that could be done. The point being, to say thanks for a good job if the piccy was deemed worthy of being displayed.
Quite rightly in my humble opinion Leon has set high standards and a consistency of style as the benchmark for his piccies. To keep to these standards he needs to be able to control the content being placed on the commercial pages. These web pages to us are a hobby but to Leon its more serious. As nice and accommodating as he is he will probably not want his web-site filled up with just anything.
I have just noticed that if I look at the WW2 pages for any nation, each code without a picky now recommends that I look at the recently added British piccies and for good measure suggests I should get nude and smell like Rihanna! <:-P =O Is everyone seeing this or is it just me?
Quite amusing but I think it may be good manners to ask Leon if he is OK with this.
Cheers, Rob :) :)
Hello Albie
Quote from: Albie Bach on 10 January 2013, 01:56:59 PM
Just done BR168 Policemen, rifles and BR169 Upper class civilians using a black wash.
Just had a look and the gremlins have extracted those from the store listing.
Cheers
GrumpyOldMan
Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 11 January 2013, 12:57:59 AM
Just had a look and the gremlins have extracted those from the store listing.
Thanks for letting me know. :)
I now have a message saying Disqus doesn't support my browser (IE8), but as I am still using Windows XP I can't use IE9. I could see the pictures yesterday though, even when I signed out. I keep telling myself to get a new computer. :o
Anyway, I've added photos on the forum here if you are interested http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6685.msg66825.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6685.msg66825.html)
Quote from: Rob on 11 January 2013, 12:56:21 AM
Hi Nik,
The £1.34 is the retail ((£4.00/30=£0.13333….) times 10 = 1.3333… say £1.34)
The actual cost to Pendraken of a giveaway figure may be difficult to precisely establish as it would vary on total annual company costs divided by how many figures they sell annually. The postage is probably the main cost obstacle.
Anyway it was just a suggestion for a token method of paying people, there are many other things that could be done. The point being, to say thanks for a good job if the piccy was deemed worthy of being displayed.
Yes, agreed - but it's still £4k if you take that and apply it to the 3000 codes that Leon needs pics of...that's simply not economical for a small business; I would argue that this is the main cost obstacle...
Quote
Quite rightly in my humble opinion Leon has set high standards and a consistency of style as the benchmark for his piccies. To keep to these standards he needs to be able to control the content being placed on the commercial pages. These web pages to us are a hobby but to Leon its more serious. As nice and accommodating as he is he will probably not want his web-site filled up with just anything.
Couldn't agree more. If we place content on the website, it's clear that it's from us, not from Pendraken because it sits in the comments section; as admin of the site, Pendraken can remove anything from there - or disable the function if they chose. Some really useful functionality is the ability to be able to push codes to social media effortlessly.
Quote
I have just noticed that if I look at the WW2 pages for any nation, each code without a picky now recommends that I look at the recently added British piccies and for good measure suggests I should get nude and smell like Rihanna! <:-P =O Is everyone seeing this or is it just me?
Quite amusing but I think it may be good manners to ask Leon if he is OK with this.
I think you'll find that this will be targeted advertising powered by Disqus (which is the comment function); nothing that any of us have put there (mine is showing Foo Fighters at the moment) - this'll include personalised content as well as paid-for promotion through the core Disqus Discovery function - more here:
http://help.disqus.com/customer/portal/articles/666278-introducing-promoted-discovery-and-f-a-q-
But do you really need pictures of every single code? I guess it would be a start to tackle the most popular periods first..like WW1, WW2, SYW or the late 19th century range. Pendraken has by far (! ) the most comprehensive selection for the 1848-1884 period and its a real pitty that there are no pictures to do this extraordinary range justice.
Re C19th - I'm working on it, just all my pictures are on my home computer...
Leon
I understand your problem of cost to employ but what about one of these government Y.T.S. (I know showing my age) but is it feasible to get a young one in to help photo the codes or approaching the local college (photography course) they might be able to take the photo's to your specs. Same college could have an I.T. section that might help you upload the pictures.
I know this might be far out.
Sean
Quote from: Sean67 on 11 January 2013, 12:13:22 PM
I understand your problem of cost to employ but what about one of these government Y.T.S. (I know showing my age) but is it feasible to get a young one in to help photo the codes or approaching the local college (photography course) they might be able to take the photo's to your specs. Same college could have an I.T. section that might help you upload the pictures.
I know this might be far out.
It's something we've looked at in a more general sense, helping out with casting and such, but at the time is wasn't quite viable. It might be something we look at again in the near future.
8)
Um - I uploaded some pics of the Marlburian artillery pieces yesterday and this evening I saw them vanish in front of my eyes. If they were removed deliberately then fair enough. However, if it was the result of my stupidity, perhaps someone could suggest what I might have done wrong - for future reference. :)
You probably did the same as me.
I uploaded a couple of pictures and thought that was it. I was wrong, only I could see them.
In fact I found later I had to "post" them. That meant I had to add a comment above the picture I uploaded and then "post" it. I don't have a Facebook etc account so I used the box which asked for a name. When you click on that another box appears below it.
Enter a Username in the top box and your email address in the bottom box. There is also a check box to join Disqus which I ticked.
The way I understand it is that you upload the pictures, but then have to go through a "post" method so you can be identified and others can see them. If you have Facebook etc account it uses that, otherwise you do what I did and use Disqus.
Sorry if this is not clear, it is 9:30 & I've drunk quite a lot of strong cider I got for Christmas. 8-}
I've just remembered another quirk.
After you have uploaded (but not posted) the pictures, when you mouse-over the thumbnail a small unexplained square appears in the top right quadrant of the thumbnail. I managed to ignore this at first, but then couldn't resist any more and clicked on one. This deleted the image and now it won't let me upload again even if I change the name of the file I want to upload. There may be a way around this (like making a dummy posting), but the best thing is DON'T CLICK ON THE SMALL SQUARE.
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Colin
I'll throw my hat into the ring, I have pictures on my blog, of the figures in my collection. I'm sure most members who have blogs, and collect various ranges of 10mm figures Leon is manufacturing will aslo have pics on thier blogs too. I'm to much of a pc homer simpson as Leon already knows the ammount of times he has helped me to upload photos on here but would be happy to link the various pics i have now, and the others i will be collecting ;D not ideal but a help...or like Phil said if every member uploaded a pic of thier own collection onto a page with what the code is or the range of figures they are from I bet we could cover most of it ;D.
just a thought
Have a great weekend everyone
all the best
Sean
Quote from: Albie Bach on 11 January 2013, 09:54:48 PM
I've just remembered another quirk.
After you have uploaded (but not posted) the pictures, when you mouse-over the thumbnail a small unexplained square appears in the top right quadrant of the thumbnail. I managed to ignore this at first, but then couldn't resist any more and clicked on one. This deleted the image and now it won't let me upload again even if I change the name of the file I want to upload. There may be a way around this (like making a dummy posting), but the best thing is DON'T CLICK ON THE SMALL SQUARE.
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Colin
Yes, I did click on the small square, thinking it was the button to expand the picture. :-[ That explains what happened.
Thanks, Albie.
I've not used the Discus stuff yet, so I'll have to remember about clicking on those squares!
Yes, I think I've got it right this time. The software insists you put in a name and a website each time, before clicking on "post". And if you do inadvertantly delete the picture it won't let you put it on again. However, if you change the file-name it will take it once more. :)
I've plonked on a picture of my painted unicorns and giant owls and will and other photos if good enough.
Thanks for all the pics folks, it really is much appreciated. When I get a spare day, I'll have a look through them all and transfer the suitable ones up into the web images.
8)
hello
I posted a pic for the SCV7. But it's strangely "squared" on the web site. Must I delete it and post a square photo ?
The previews seem to be square, but when you open them they go to the right size.
Ok, thank you !
So I think the web engine si resizing it to a square. May be I will post other pics in square, or in the "right" size (if I can find what it is..)
Leon : feel free to delete it, then I will repost.
( and I hope you're feeling better now, I've read your "spam" messages on the "man down" thread ;D )
Tried adding some FPW war French, but cannot see the pictures yet. Here's hoping!
Nothing has appeared, any hints as to what I've done wrong gents?
Quote from: capthugeca on 12 January 2013, 10:14:59 PM
I've plonked on a picture of my painted unicorns and giant owls and will and other photos if good enough.
Hey, thanks! I was wondering what the owls looked like a couple days ago.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 14 January 2013, 08:54:30 AM
Nothing has appeared, any hints as to what I've done wrong gents?
Your comment on the Chasseurs a Cheval has registered, Lemmey, but the picture hasn't appeared. I found that, provided you went into the comments box, clicked on the picture icon, clicked on browse, clicked "open" when you'd found a suitable pic, filled in a user name and valid e-mail address and clicked "post" all was well. The boxes for user name and e-mail address hide down right at the bottom of the form and are easy to miss.
I logged in with gaceache and have got about three up now :D, but it doesn't like my Dragoons! :(
I've gone through as many of the Discus posts as it will let me see (I can't seem to view every post?), and added them to the website codes. I'll have a dig around and find out how come I can't see the others.
8)