Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Rules => Topic started by: Steve J on 28 October 2012, 02:52:28 PM

Title: Longstreet
Post by: Steve J on 28 October 2012, 02:52:28 PM
For those that have enjoyed playing Maurice, here is the latest on the new game offering by Sam. Unfortunately (or maybe the reverse given my lead mountain), the ACW leaves me completely cold in games terms. Shame as the new ACW figures look the dogs b*ll*cks!

http://www.sammustafa.com/honour/downloads/
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: mollinary on 28 October 2012, 03:08:52 PM
Thanks for that Steve,

It looks an interesting new take on an old favourite!

Mollinary
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: freddy326 on 30 October 2012, 08:50:05 AM
Excellent.....I enjoy playing Maurice and can now dust off my ACW figures!
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: nikharwood on 30 October 2012, 09:05:18 AM
Note-to-self #1: if there's a pre-order deal that includes the PDF with the rulebook & cards, buy it direct from Sam...not from the UK distributor so that I can get the PDF... >:(

Note-to-self #2: don't forget that you won't get any reply to any Contact you make through his website asking politely whether you can have the PDF - or encouraging him to be clearer about this in his pre-order deals...  >:(>:(

Note-to-self #3: don't forget that despite the (likely) price, these rules will (likely) be in paperback  :-\

Note-to-self #4: these probably will be really good, despite the cards  ;)  :D
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Rothgar68 on 30 October 2012, 03:14:33 PM
Interesting..

I'll have to see if Sam is running any ACW games at the next few cons.

Not a big fan of card systems.. I do like Grand Armee and LaSalle though.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Serotonin on 16 November 2012, 06:13:46 PM
ooh could be tempted. Ive played Black Powder in 28mm (have a reaosnable size mostly unpainted collection of perrys ACW Confederates) and it was OK, not as fun as Napoleonics with Black Powder. Having become a Maurice fan, these could tempt me.

Also what Nick says!   ;D
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Dave Fielder on 04 December 2012, 02:14:08 PM
I await further developments .. 2013 = 150 years from Gettysburg, and a few others ....
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Steve J on 02 February 2013, 06:41:33 AM
So new information from Sam on the game, which look to be quite good and the whole campaign bit looks rather fun.

http://www.sammustafa.com/honour/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/01/Longstreet-Flyer-2013.pdf

Some play test game pics and write on the following link, but naturally not too much detail about the game mechanics.

http://wargaming.info/2013/marching-on-richmond-fast-play-acw-campaign

Depending upon the price of these I might be tempted but to be honest this is not a period that really grabs me, especially after reading Paddy Griffiths "Tactics of the ACW" (or something along those lines).
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Albie Bach on 02 February 2013, 11:50:39 AM
Thanks Steve
I've heard good things about Maurice and the battle write up sounds fun. ACW is one of my favourite periods so I might be interested.
I see the expected release date is August 2013. Still a while to wait.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Nick the Lemming on 02 February 2013, 01:45:16 PM
We've been playing Sam's games a lot (I started with Grand Armee and Might and Reason, then moved to Lasalle and Maurice because they were quicker and more fun), so if you want to see something of what the games are like, check out my blog and follow the links too - our Maurice campaign is a blog kept in the spirit of things, and Monkey that Walks does some excellent batreps. We're looking forward to Longstreet, and as soon as its out, I'll be doing a review like my Maurice one.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Nosher on 02 February 2013, 02:15:41 PM
Must admit I'm with Steve here - the ACW holds pretty low appeal but Maurice is an outstanding game and Lasalle is ok (although not my cup of tea) so it makes Longstreet a temptation. I just hope someone else at the club takes it on as I have loads to be getting on with without any new distractions!!
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: sebastosfig on 02 February 2013, 03:01:47 PM
Hmmmm, might be tempting to create a fictionnal crimean war campaign :-\
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: FierceKitty on 03 February 2013, 12:34:20 AM
Another voice here from a gamer that finds the drab uniforms and slaughterhouse tactics of the ACW less than irresistible. But the river war is fun; those tin kettles are so unbelievably ugly! Normally, from Salamis to Jutland, the basic laws of physics, engineering, and ergonomics force a warship to be a thing of grace and beauty. With the major exception of early ironclads.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Serotonin on 03 February 2013, 11:33:16 AM
I'm interested in this but it seems you need a lot of figures/bases for a starting force. Kind of putting me off tbh.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: petercooman on 03 February 2013, 12:37:08 PM
I'll be ignoring these and just get the acw troops ready for ACWarmaster. Nrvrt brrn too fond of card driven games. And having so much fun with BKC lately means i will continue the trend in a warmaster-ish variant :)
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Serotonin on 13 July 2013, 06:39:38 PM
Lite rules are out and the free lite rul card deck is up for dload too.

http://www.sammustafa.com/honour/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/07/Longstreet-Lite-2013.pdf


Must say it looks pretty good. Similar to Maurice with a quite different use of the cards though.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: mellis1644 on 14 July 2013, 01:27:35 AM
I'm not an ACW fan in the past but I have been tempted into painting forces cuz of Sam's rules.

I really like Maurice, and have found that a great set if rules. So although not a big card activation game fan I'm looking forward to these and I'm busy painting forces for the game.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Nosher on 14 July 2013, 07:54:16 AM
Bugger >:(

I have no interest in the ACW but Maurice is such a good gime I might have to digress into this period too.... I need another 'collection' like I need a hole in the head!

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP TEMPTING ME WITH SUCH LOVELINESS :d
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Serotonin on 14 July 2013, 12:26:22 PM
Had a good read of the Lite rules last night and they do look pretty good- cards are used in a totally different way from Maurice. Looks like each player has a deck of cards made up of common cards to both sides and then army specific cards. You use the cards to take an action for your force basically, you throw a card in from your hand to activate a move action for your troops, and then can modify that action with any special specifc cards. The tension being that when you have cycled through your deck you have to shuffle, but before you do that you have to randomly discard 6 cards, so as the game goes on you have less cards to play with. Cards also seem to have a morale value, usually from 1-2 points, and you can discard them to 'save' hits. Of course the more hits you save the mnore cards you need to discard and the quicker your deck gets thinned out.

Seems a clever mechanism to model command and control as well as morale. Wont suit everyone, but I think it looks inspired.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Serotonin on 14 July 2013, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: Serotonin on 14 July 2013, 12:26:22 PM
Had a good read of the Lite rules last night and they do look pretty good- cards are used in a totally different way from Maurice. Looks like each player has a deck of cards made up of common cards to both sides and then army specific cards. You use the cards to take an action for your force basically, you throw a card in from your hand to activate a move action for your troops, and then can modify that action with any special specifc cards. The tension being that when you have cycled through your deck you have to shuffle, but before you do that you have to randomly discard 6 cards, so as the game goes on you have less cards to play with. Cards also seem to have a morale value, usually from 1-2 points, and you can discard them to 'save' hits. Of course the more hits you save the mnore cards you need to discard and the quicker your deck gets thinned out.

Seems a clever mechanism to model command and control as well as morale. Wont suit everyone, but I think it looks inspired.

I also liked the way skirmish lines etc are modelled- very abstract but quite simple and effective. Bascially if somethings out of line of sight, in cover etc, over crest of a hill, you can still fire at it if its in range (thats if Ive understood the rules correctly) although you can only hit on a 6.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 14 July 2013, 01:54:39 PM
Will likely give the Lite rules a couple of games down the club and then go for the big hit as there are a few of us who like the feel of a story unwinding through the use of the campaign. ACW is also big in our club as one of the members is a McClellan descendant.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: nikharwood on 19 July 2013, 11:48:19 PM
Cool - will give those Lite rules a run-out ASAP  8)
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: ronan on 20 July 2013, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: Serotonin on 14 July 2013, 12:26:22 PM
Had a good read of the Lite rules last night and they do look pretty good- cards are used in a totally different way from Maurice. Looks like each player has a deck of cards made up of common cards to both sides and then army specific cards. You use the cards to take an action for your force basically, you throw a card in from your hand to activate a move action for your troops, and then can modify that action with any special specifc cards. The tension being that when you have cycled through your deck you have to shuffle, but before you do that you have to randomly discard 6 cards, so as the game goes on you have less cards to play with. Cards also seem to have a morale value, usually from 1-2 points, and you can discard them to 'save' hits. Of course the more hits you save the mnore cards you need to discard and the quicker your deck gets thinned out.

Seems a clever mechanism to model command and control as well as morale. Wont suit everyone, but I think it looks inspired.

Yes, you're right.
I tried them (in a solo game) http://smolensk.homelinux.org/?p=1572 (http://smolensk.homelinux.org/?p=1572)
Sam did a good job. Good  rules, but I'm missing something.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 20 July 2013, 07:51:55 AM
What's missing is probably the wider range of subtleties achieved through the full rules, eg. I want to try out some of the scenarios available  in the Spring Hill and Franklin battles using the maps in 'The Confederacy's Last Hurrah' but as yet there are no rules for cavalry, mounted or dismounted.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: ronan on 20 July 2013, 08:12:46 AM
I think it's - for my own taste - the feeling . I played "cards" instead of "MY plan that never works"  ;)
Same feelings with Maurice.
But they are good games, imho.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Serotonin on 20 July 2013, 11:44:34 AM
Quote from: nikharwood on 19 July 2013, 11:48:19 PM
Cool - will give those Lite rules a run-out ASAP  8)

Do us a report Nik!
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: nikharwood on 20 July 2013, 12:16:12 PM
Quote from: Serotonin on 20 July 2013, 11:44:34 AM
Do us a report Nik!

It's about time, isn't it?  :)
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 20 July 2013, 01:21:08 PM
If you can't wait for Nik there's a couple of batreps on the Honour site (and yes, it is the English and not the American spelling).
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Luddite on 01 August 2013, 09:52:48 PM
Played these tonight.

An exceptionally good game

Like Maurice it'll be better in the full release, but well, it is basically just Maurice with some period tweaks.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: nikharwood on 01 August 2013, 11:17:01 PM
Quote from: Luddite on 01 August 2013, 09:52:48 PM
Played these tonight.

An exceptionally good game

Like Maurice it'll be better in the full release, but well, it is basically just Maurice with some period tweaks.


That's my conclusion from a quick skim-read too, Luddite...

Not sure that these will convince me away from ACWarmaster / Black Powder to be honest...dunno...but I'll give them a try at some point.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Chad on 02 August 2013, 09:04:28 AM
Luddite

Do you think it could be tweaked to handle 1859 and 1866 campaigns?

Chad
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Luddite on 03 August 2013, 07:08:59 PM
Yes.   :)
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Chad on 03 August 2013, 07:20:36 PM
Cheers, Luddite.

Chad
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 17 August 2013, 01:03:20 PM
Have now played three games of Longstreet Lite. There are similarities and differences to Maurice. In the games woods don't slow up infantry but do reduce firepower to skirmish only (as with F&F skirmishers are assumed to be out front). Artillery in Lite is very effective but will be less so in the full rules. Unlike Maurice you complete every turn with a drawer to maintain a 6 card hand (if there are enough cards in your pack). A player's turn starts with the option to reshuffle his pack, but he must permanently discard 6 cards after this. Eventually he will run out of cards. Combat is rather different as well being based on scores rather than casualties. Hits (not kills) can be reduced using the morale score on the cards.

I think what attracts me most though is that the campaign in the full game will allow a player to progress through all four years of the war as an individual officer building his own career and reputation despite the war's inevitable outcome.

I definitely recommend playing the Lite rules first as they do have some odd little twists and turns but once mastered this seems to me to be a very satisfying game.   
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Nosher on 19 August 2013, 07:30:41 AM
Noticed that this ruleset is available now through North Star.

£35 for rules and cards bundle. Free postage until late august.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Ferb on 19 August 2013, 09:29:07 AM
Order already placed.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: nikharwood on 19 August 2013, 08:39:11 PM
I'm undecided about this one...having really enjoyed Maurice initially, it's remained untouched for a while now...I think it's the cards - just not a fan of them in wargames I think...
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Nosher on 20 August 2013, 08:19:38 AM
Quote from: nikharwood on 19 August 2013, 08:39:11 PM
I'm undecided about this one...having really enjoyed Maurice initially, it's remained untouched for a while now...I think it's the cards - just not a fan of them in wargames I think...

If it makes your decision nay easier this is less reliant on the cards although they are still part of the game...
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Luddite on 20 August 2013, 12:48:09 PM
Quote from: nikharwood on 19 August 2013, 08:39:11 PM
I'm undecided about this one...having really enjoyed Maurice initially, it's remained untouched for a while now...I think it's the cards - just not a fan of them in wargames I think...

Agreed.  Having played Maurice and Longstreet, in both cases we commented that this is a card game with figures.  I also found that with Malifaux and IABSM (et. al.)



Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Ferb on 20 August 2013, 02:23:04 PM
For me the cards in games like Malifaux and Maurice add another level of 'colour' and fun to a game, not to mention the tactical options they provide, that a D6 just doesn't give you.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 20 August 2013, 07:08:59 PM
Agree with Ferb on this. I also found the system more satisfying in Longstreet than Maurice. This probably has something to do with Sam being able to develop what he started in Maurice. However please bear this in mind: EACH PLAYER REQUIRES A FULL CARD DECK. Read Sam's blurb on this carefully. If you are looking for multiplayer games then even more decks are required and at £12 a throw it starts to get expensive. Try and find an opponent who has also bought the Longstreet bundle.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: nikharwood on 20 August 2013, 08:16:54 PM
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 20 August 2013, 07:08:59 PM
Agree with Ferb on this. I also found the system more satisfying in Longstreet than Maurice. This probably has something to do with Sam being able to develop what he started in Maurice. However please bear this in mind: EACH PLAYER REQUIRES A FULL CARD DECK. Read Sam's blurb on this carefully. If you are looking for multiplayer games then even more decks are required and at £12 a throw it starts to get expensive. Try and find an opponent who has also bought the Longstreet bundle.

And that's sealed it for me - I'll stick with ACWarmaster / Black Powder  :)
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Nosher on 20 August 2013, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 20 August 2013, 07:08:59 PM
However please bear this in mind: EACH PLAYER REQUIRES A FULL CARD DECK. Read Sam's blurb on this carefully. If you are looking for multiplayer games then even more decks are required and at £12 a throw it starts to get expensive.

That indeed is a bit sh*t... and if I may say so, a bit opportunistic. I wouldn't be surprised if at some stage this will get developed to include obligatory dice at £12 a throw too...

Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: nikharwood on 21 August 2013, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: Nosher on 20 August 2013, 08:58:42 PM
That indeed is a bit sh*t... and if I may say so, a bit opportunistic. I wouldn't be surprised if at some stage this will get developed to include obligatory dice at £12 a throw too...



Yep - I also (still) feel stiffed from when I bought Maurice on pre-order (bundle with cards, from his UK distributor, North Star) as we (UK customers) didn't get the free PDF that our colonial cousins did...nor did Sam deign to answer my (very polite) enquiry as to whether we could / should have access to that - given that we'd paid the same amount of money. I also suggested that he could have made this more explicit...

I was also surprised that, for the price, Maurice was softback - and not very robust at that; I reckon I've played about 8-10 games (all solo) and my copy is pretty battered.

I think I'll spend £35 on 10mm toys instead  8)
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Nosher on 21 August 2013, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: nikharwood on 21 August 2013, 11:44:57 AM
Yep - I also (still) feel stiffed from when I bought Maurice on pre-order (bundle with cards, from his UK distributor, North Star) as we (UK customers) didn't get the free PDF that our colonial cousins did...nor did Sam deign to answer my (very polite) enquiry as to whether we could / should have access to that - given that we'd paid the same amount of money. I also suggested that he could have made this more explicit...

I was also surprised that, for the price, Maurice was softback - and not very robust at that; I reckon I've played about 8-10 games (all solo) and my copy is pretty battered.

I think I'll spend £35 on 10mm toys instead  8)

Probably very wise Nik.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Serotonin on 21 August 2013, 04:32:46 PM
Yeah I'm not touching this - 2 decks of cards to play is taking the piss a tad. Shame as core rules look good. Will stick to Black Powder.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Fenton on 21 August 2013, 04:36:41 PM
Quote from: nikharwood on 21 August 2013, 11:44:57 AM
Yep - I also (still) feel stiffed from when I bought Maurice on pre-order (bundle with cards, from his UK distributor, North Star) as we (UK customers) didn't get the free PDF that our colonial cousins did...nor did Sam deign to answer my (very polite) enquiry as to whether we could / should have access to that - given that we'd paid the same amount of money. I also suggested that he could have made this more explicit...

I was also surprised that, for the price, Maurice was softback - and not very robust at that; I reckon I've played about 8-10 games (all solo) and my copy is pretty battered.

I think I'll spend £35 on 10mm toys instead  8)

well thats about 250-270 figures..so nearly 2 new armies
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Mike L on 28 August 2013, 12:27:06 PM
"However please bear this in mind: EACH PLAYER REQUIRES A FULL CARD DECK. Read Sam's blurb on this carefully. If you are looking for multiplayer games then even more decks are required and at £12 a throw it starts to get expensive"

You can download the pdf for the action cards of Sam's website. They give you all the cards you need for a game. The full pack provides cards for terrain options, reinforcments personal characteristics that sort of thing. So buy 1 pack and download the spare one. I printed it off on plain paper and used plastic card protectors and they work fine.

My only problem so far is after just about finishing my Union army, I now NEED to get some colored units for them just in case I draw that reinforcment card 3 years into the campaign.  ;D

Mike
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Albie Bach on 28 August 2013, 12:53:37 PM
I downloaded Longstreet Lite intending to give it a go, but at 26 pages long I decided not to bother. Surely the Lite version should have been kept really simple to get people to try it.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 29 August 2013, 08:49:21 AM
There are different ways of dealing with the cards. I would recommend 2 purchased packs as both sides should have access to all the terrain cards, personality cards and neutral campaign cards (which is most of them). However the action cards which drive the tabletop game are the same as the downloadable ones, so can be used for multiplayer games. It's easy enough to make a couple of DYO cards per pack. Having played the lite version a number of times now I have found the actual game mechanics to be a great deal of fun and very straightforward to play, but then ACW is one of my favourite periods (and what got me started in 1966).
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Mike L on 29 August 2013, 12:33:28 PM
Quote from: Albie Bach on 28 August 2013, 12:53:37 PM
I downloaded Longstreet Lite intending to give it a go, but at 26 pages long I decided not to bother. Surely the Lite version should have been kept really simple to get people to try it.

The Lite are pretty much 80% of the full battle rules just treating all the troops and guns as the same quality and no cav.
Considering that rule sets are getting quite expensive these days I like the idea of publishing an abridged set so that you can decide if you like the authors ideas and style before paying the cost of an army pack. There are still sets out there that are incoherent and only make sense if you know what the writer was thinking on that day.

Mike
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 29 August 2013, 02:07:00 PM
Fair point Mike. I bought the rules after playing five games of lite and after having some of the best wargaming fun I'd had in ages. IMHO the best rules to come out for me recently have been Longstreet, Square Bashing and Dux Britanniarum.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: mellis1644 on 05 September 2013, 03:43:07 PM
Quote from: Fenton on 21 August 2013, 04:36:41 PM
well thats about 250-270 figures..so nearly 2 new armies

Your armies are much smaller than mine then...

My ACW armies will be approx 200+ bases each so likely 900 or so figs each. Nut I'm looking to do large F&F games as well as multiplayer Longstreet.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 21 September 2013, 01:18:30 PM
Working on a Longstreet DYO action card where the CSS Arkansas turns up in the river scenario. At last, thinks I, a chance to use my Pendraken Arkansas which I've had for a number of years. Imagine my surprise (well this is the Forum) when I took my pristine Arkansas out of the ACW box to find it still stapled into its Pendraken bag with the  price tag - £6 !!!!! :o
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 September 2013, 01:28:38 PM
When was that bought!  :o
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 21 September 2013, 04:20:31 PM
I think it was at Colours in the mid to late nineties. I bought it to use with 15mm figures as a better size than one in proper scale. I also have a 1:400 Revell kit of a paddle steamer to make up as a small Confederate ram. wish I'd bought more at that time as I would now also like the Carondelet and the Mamora to give the Union something for a different scenario.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: richinq on 07 December 2013, 12:36:52 PM
I just got these rules,  I really like the look of them,  just need to paint a few more bases of figures before I can play them.
Title: Re: Longstreet
Post by: Leman on 07 December 2013, 04:28:57 PM
It is well worth going on the Honour website to look at the questions that have come up on the forum there.