Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => Photos => 18th & Early 19th C. Photos => Topic started by: GordonY on 24 September 2012, 10:37:15 AM

Title: My 1809 stuff
Post by: GordonY on 24 September 2012, 10:37:15 AM
As apart from 4 brigadiers I've just finished this lot I couldnt resist having a roll-call and snapping a couple of crappy piccys

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GordonY/P1010420_zps8c1556b2.jpg)

and a little closer

(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GordonY/P1010422_zpsb5fb24ae.jpg)

hope you like them.  :D

Still a lot of flock and flags to apply but seeing them done makes me a happy bunny.
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Steve J on 24 September 2012, 12:24:20 PM
From what I can see they look good en masse. With flags and flock they should look rather dandy.
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 24 September 2012, 01:22:19 PM
Lo0oking wow!  8) :D
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Bishop Lord on 24 September 2012, 03:34:03 PM
  Wow! They look great,  :) if anyone ask why we game in 10mm show a piccie like that! Says it all. Look forward to seeing the flags and flock on.

Jason
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: nikharwood on 24 September 2012, 04:43:32 PM
Looking good Gordon  8)
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Leon on 24 September 2012, 05:06:54 PM
 8)
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Poggle on 25 September 2012, 09:06:17 PM
Very fine!  :)
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: MR T on 27 September 2012, 10:53:38 PM
Yep looking good Gordie  8)
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Techno on 28 September 2012, 07:21:02 AM
MOST impressive !! :-bd =D>
Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: wurrukatte on 28 September 2012, 08:28:23 AM
Look great =D> .
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Hertsblue on 28 September 2012, 09:08:05 AM
Great stuff, Gordon.  8)

However, at the risk of being a wet blanket, there is no evidence that Napoleonic French line infantry carried flags in action. The eagle was considered to be the standard and was usually carried on a bare pole. None of the captured eagles in the National Army Museum in London have flags attached.  :(
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: FierceKitty on 28 September 2012, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 28 September 2012, 09:08:05 AM
Great stuff, Gordon.  8)

However, at the risk of being a wet blanket, there is no evidence that Napoleonic French line infantry carried flags in action. The eagle was considered to be the standard and was usually carried on a bare pole. None of the captured eagles in the National Army Museum in London have flags attached.  :(
Coo, that's new to me. Good job I gave up Napoleonics in 1983!
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Luddite on 28 September 2012, 10:03:29 AM
Very nice indeed.   =D>

Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: GordonY on 28 September 2012, 10:56:59 AM
No flags eh? Does that go for cavalry as well? If so that'll save me a tiresome job.  :D

Only need some on the Austrian cavalry then.

Gordon does his happy dance................
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: nikharwood on 28 September 2012, 09:30:03 PM
Quote from: GordonY on 28 September 2012, 10:56:59 AM
No flags eh? Does that go for cavalry as well? If so that'll save me a tiresome job.  :D

Only need some on the Austrian cavalry then.

Gordon does his happy dance................

Interesting...
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Hertsblue on 29 September 2012, 09:21:55 AM
Quote from: GordonY on 28 September 2012, 10:56:59 AM
No flags eh? Does that go for cavalry as well? If so that'll save me a tiresome job.  :D

Only need some on the Austrian cavalry then.

Gordon does his happy dance................

Not sure about the cavalry, but it would seem likely.  :-\
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: mollinary on 02 October 2012, 08:34:52 PM
HB,

An interesting point. Although I am a self confessed flag geek, I don't pretend to any expertise on the French of this period, and I totally accept the primacy of the eagle itself over the flag.  But this raises a further question: if the eagle was important, and was taken on campaign, why was the flag, which was not important, not taken on campaign?   The flag was considered important enough to go through a succession of developments of design, and even in the 100 days a new set of flags was designed and issued.  So why was this done if they were not to be carried in action? Not sure I understand any rationale for this.  Perhaps this is a new area of geek-dom I need to immerse myself in?    :-\

Mollinary
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 02 October 2012, 10:49:49 PM
It's not the first time I have heard this, I believe it was common.
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Hertsblue on 03 October 2012, 11:27:59 AM
As far as I'm aware, the flag was only carried on ceremonial occasions. Keith Over, in his Flags and Standards of the Napoleonic Wars (London 1976) states; "In 1808 it was decreed that only one eagle was to be carried per regiment and that by the first battalion..... Regiments often carried the eagle without the unimportant flag, sometimes on the bare staff, and sometimes with a tricoloured cravatte replacing the flag."

Terry Wise in his Flags of the Napoleonic Wars - Volume 1 (Osprey 1978) says that "During the 1805 campaign some of the Hussar regiments, whose dispersed role was not conducive to confidence that they could honour their oath to defend the eagles, returned most of their eagles to their depots; and in September 1806 it was officially laid down that Hussar, Chasseurs a Cheval and Light Infantry regiments should hand in all their eagles at the beginning of a campaign. It was known that at least the 4th and 9th Hussars ignored this order and carried four eagles until 1812, and a Legere regiment's eagle was lost in battle as late as 1814.
    The order was soon extended to include the dragoons, who were allowed to keep only one eagle in the field; and in 1809 the Army of Germany was instructed to return all eagles except one per regiment, this one to be carried by the 1st Battalion or 1st Squadron."

From all this it appears that, although various issues of eagles and flags were made, and instructions were issued to recall them, there was a great deal of license taken by the individual units, some of which stubbornly stuck to the old practices, whilst others did as they chose. 
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: GordonY on 03 October 2012, 12:55:19 PM
In that case only Austrian donkey-wallopers will be issued with flags, saves me a lot of cursing and swearing.
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 03 October 2012, 04:24:21 PM
However the French did carry them in the second Empire!
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: GordonY on 03 October 2012, 09:24:41 PM
Lemmey, its 1809 ffs, the 1st Empire is still in its heyday.
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 03 October 2012, 09:27:03 PM
I know I know! Just wish some of the 1870 generals had the same backbone as their illustrious forebears!
Title: Re: My 1809 stuff
Post by: Hertsblue on 04 October 2012, 08:56:04 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 03 October 2012, 04:24:21 PM
However the French did carry them in the second Empire!

Yes, but only by the second or "centre" battalions of each infantry regiment.