Hi all,
I've just added a quick review of the new Dux Bellorum rules to my blog. You can check it out here (http://ferbsfightingforces.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/quick-review-dux-bellorum.html).
Ferb
Thanks for the review Ferb, the rules look ok and are reasonably priced, so may consider this for the future.
So how do you think they would do for 10mm?
I think they would be fine with 10mm figures. You could go with 40mm bases and just have as many figures on them as you like. Or if you want the game to look more epic you could use 80mm bases. As the rules focus on each base as a unit they're easily usable for any scale.
Well my game plan is eventually (the other Dux rules have priority) to have the sheildwall units on 80 x 40 bases with 4 ranks of 8 (or maybe 10), I think that'll look more like a sheildwall than 4 15mm figures stuck to a 40 x 20.
I'm also considering hedging my bets and using 4 40x20s to make up the 80x40, that way if the rules suck then theyre good to go for Warmaster.
I've also got the rules and am waiting on a copy of Dux Britanniarum to arrive.
I like the look of Dux Bellorum, particularly that I can field an army of about thirty to forty figures. Only trouble is, other than late romans there aren't too many options in 10mm. I already have Gripping Beast 28mm so at risk of being burnt at the stake I will probably collect armies in that scale.
Just ordered mine, might finally get a use for my Later Romans!
Dash you sir! ;) :D
Finally got around to buying these today at Amazon 8 pounds..Cant wait to try them out
Cheers for the review. We'll be trying these out early 2013 i think. My copy's due to after 25th.
Interesting to read its nothing like A World Aflame. It would seem that Osprey aren't, as many other publishers, choosing a one size fits all core mechanic and sticking with it.
Played our first game last night.
An excellent ruleset. Simple, fast paced, tactically rich and bloodthirsty.
Highly recommended if you want a good fun evening's gaming.
:D
I really must dig my set out again.
I played once - solo - which was probably not the best idea, and as you say found them fun and bloodthirsty but missing something I couldn't put my finger on until I thought about it a few days later and realised its not great for solo play.
I also felt it was a bit DBAish which I will have to find a different wayu of describing it if I am to sell it to anyone at the club.
I keep thinking about these but really want rule sets that will also work well with solo play.
Some of the scenarios would work for solo.
There is a forum on the Geek about these rules.
IanS
Just bought them for £7.84 inc p&p which is as cheap as chips these days :). Another quick read through of Ferbs thoughts as well as a sample turn online, plus a preview courtesy of Amazon convinced me to buy these. I also like the fact that you don't need that many figures to make a force compared to WMA. Once I receive the book it will be time to get the thinking cap on to buy some of Clibs wonderful late Roman figures for some Arthurian era gaming :).
Don't forget Keira ;)
Good idea :).
Quote from: Steve J on 05 January 2013, 05:34:08 PM
Just bought them for £7.84 inc p&p which is as cheap as chips these days :). Another quick read through of Ferbs thoughts as well as a sample turn online, plus a preview courtesy of Amazon convinced me to buy these.
Aye, makes a change from the usual £30 effort of 10 pages of rules and 190 pages of fluff.
QuoteI also like the fact that you don't need that many figures to make a force compared to WMA.
Indeed. Although, if i didn't already have 28mm armies for the period i'd be doing 100x50mm bases with 30+ Pendraken figures per base... @-)
Ive just picked these up too- I blame Steve J and am very impressed.
Not sure what scale I want to do these. I would like to do them 10mm but the Pendraken range is pretty limited right now (hint hint). Thinking 15mm as my mates have a few 15mm forces for this era, but I am also contemplating 28mm, because as a Saga player I am anxiously awaiting their Arthurian supplement. Then again with element basing you are talking base widths of around 100mm a unit and that means a foot unit is going ot be moving 20-30cm a turn, which seems a lot to me on a 6x4 table. Any views guys?
I was reading these again last night, and the large movements did concern me, especially I am thinking of 6 or 10mm on 60mm wide bases, Having not played a game yet maybe the Bravery tests and LP's limit this more than I think it might
Quote from: Serotonin on 06 January 2013, 10:01:22 AM
Then again with element basing you are talking base widths of around 100mm a unit and that means a foot unit is going ot be moving 20-30cm a turn, which seems a lot to me on a 6x4 table. Any views guys?
Basing is entirely up to you and the rules recommend 40mm base width for 15mm figures or smaller, or 60mm base width for larger figures.
Personally we've gone with 28mm figures on 100mm bases. On a 6x4' table, with the deployment rules it means that your cavalry are likely to be within charge range on turn 1. Infantry can be in contact by turn 2.
This means that deployment is vital since with the larger base widths we've chosen to use, the armies deploy effectively in 'combat range'. Its not too bad though since Dux Bellorum is about Dark Age warrior 'warbands' who lack subtlety, mobility, or tactics. For them, anything more than 'get 'em lads' is probably a bit suspicious and 'un-manly' in any case!
With say 60mm base widths you'd have a lot more room for manoeuvring. If you're on 40mm bases i believe the rules recommend using smaller table so...
Overall though we've found that these move distances aren't a problem and the freedom of movement that individual units have makes for interesting 'dancing' and 'dressage', especially when you get a cascade of units charging each other. It really gives a feeling of the chaotic 'football riot' style of fighting that Dark Age battles likely were...we're not talking Napoleonic ordered formations here!
QuoteNot sure what scale I want to do these. I would like to do them 10mm but the Pendraken range is pretty limited right now (hint hint).
Indeed!
:D
Quote from: FentonHaving not played a game yet maybe the Bravery tests and LP's limit this more than I think it might
Actually we've found the Bravery tests to be not too limiting. In a game we've found you perhaps fail maybe one or two critical Bravery tests at most, and for those units you absolutely have to move, you can invest Leadership points to get them going! Its part of the appeal of the game actually.
The bulk of your army is likely to be grouped with your Companions/Leader anyway so Bravery is almost never a problem there. Its only once the lines meet and the groups break up that things start to get tricky! The units outside your leader's range are likely to be your skirmisher flanks and they're pretty 'brave' when moving anyway...
Overall the game holds together pretty well and is well worth a try.
How many did you get on a 100m base? Im thinking of basing them individually on 20mm circular bases then getting some movement trays made up. That way when Saga Arthurian comes out I can use them for that, or Dux Briitanirum (which I also have)
If you went with 100x50mm bases and 10mm figures you'd get loads on a base. I can get 8-10 figs on a 40x20mm base in 2 ranks - which would easily give you 50-60 on 100 x 50mm base, even with a bit of space for artistic bits!
It does sound like a lot of painting, though, so maybe go with 60x40mm bases. This is the same as WM which would allow the re-use of WMA figures.
Personally I'm happy with a 10mm unit moving 20-30cm in a turn, this can easily happen in WM and we are currently playing KoW with standard moves so infantry can double or charge 10-12".
Quote from: Serotonin on 06 January 2013, 01:02:45 PM
How many did you get on a 100m base? Im thinking of basing them individually on 20mm circular bases then getting some movement trays made up. That way when Saga Arthurian comes out I can use them for that, or Dux Briitanirum (which I also have)
In 28mm we have units already based for a previous game so:
8x Infantry
4x Cavalry
4x Skirmishers
If Pendraken ranges for the period were more comprehensive, i'd look to put perhaps 30-50 10mm figures on a 100mm base. Each unit is supposed to represent about 50 warriors so that seems quite appropriate! :D
I might start with units of 4 on a 100m frontage in 100x30mm movement trays then when I expand the units to 8 men, I can just buy new movement trays.
I must say I'm very, very impressed with these rules. I'm so glad I bought them :). More details to follow on my Blog soon with luck.
Yeah they are dead good Steve. Its got something for everyone mechanics wise.
Quote from: Steve J on 11 January 2013, 09:34:55 PM
I must say I'm very, very impressed with these rules. I'm so glad I bought them :). More details to follow on my Blog soon with luck.
Agreed.
We played a couple more games last night. Marvellous stuff.
These really are a refreshing set of rules.
I do reckon with 30-50 Pendraken figures on a 100x50mm base the armies would look jolly good. Just need some Dark Age figures to be released! :D
I've put up a review of the rules on my Blog for those that are interested:
http://wwiiwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/dux-bellorum.html
Nice review Steve - I'm still (just about) resisting though ;) :D
Quote from: nikharwood on 13 January 2013, 10:48:40 PM
Nice review Steve - I'm still (just about) resisting though ;) :D
You know you'll buy them in the end Nik, so why put yourself through the agony of making the choice :D
It's a case of not 'if', but 'when' :d.
Aye and at £8-ish you can't go wrong!
Proof that you don't need 4kg of paper costing £35 to make a decent wargame.
;D
QuoteProof that you don't need 4kg of paper costing £35 to make a decent wargame.
Damned right there mate! Unfortunately the trend seems to be towards coffee table wargames books that then have de rigeur follow on supplements :(.
See I quite like coffee table rule books, but I have to say this is a refreshing change.
Cant wait to get a game in!
PS Do it Nik! ;D
Bad b*ggers, the lot of you ;)
OMG look at this one!
http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Dux-Bellorum-Arthurian-Wargame-Rules-AD-3670793-Daniel-Mersey-/180915663684?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item2a1f69f344
Shame douchebaggs still try to rip off other honest people...
Edit: Seems he had a go at black powder too, 60 freaking €!!!
I've succumbed to temptation, good feedback and an overwhelming inbox of spam emails from colleague gamers who are keen...
With a fair wind, these will land with me towards the end of the week...I'll be a full-on convert by the weekend I suspect 8)
Best set of new rules released in the last 3-4 years I'd say.
Hope you like 'em Nik. :D
Quote from: Luddite on 20 January 2013, 10:40:52 AM
Best set of new rules released in the last 3-4 years I'd say.
Hope you like 'em Nik. :D
Wow - that's quite some accolade Luddite; I'm looking forward to these...and they
will be my last temptation of 2013 (not even close to making it through January, was I?) :)
Quoteand they will be my last temptation of 2013 (not even close to making it through January, was I?
You and me both on this one!
Quote from: nikharwood on 20 January 2013, 11:18:57 AM...and they will be my last temptation of 2013
Yeah right.... :P ;D :D
Quote from: nikharwood on 20 January 2013, 11:18:57 AM
Wow - that's quite some accolade Luddite; I'm looking forward to these...and they will be my last temptation of 2013 (not even close to making it through January, was I?) :)
Maurice is good too...
Quote from: Luddite on 21 January 2013, 12:29:07 AM
Maurice is good too...
Ah....s'ok....got that one
ages ago!
Yeah me too.
Only a couple of games though so far, as we were planning a 2013 campaign...now seriously threatened by Dux Bellorum!! ;D
I'm off to the Burton Doubles Field of Glory tournament at the end of Feb and have spent the last few weeks immersed in Dux Bellorum. Coming back to the complexities of Fog v2 to try and learn the updates, its just an impenetrable nightmare of pointless rules. >:(
Yep, Dux has put a spanner in the works this end. I was happily basing up two 2mm SYW forces for Maurice until then. Even my AVBCW and WWII BKCII forces have taken a back seat. Now that I've placed an order with Leon I might return to the latter until the figures arrive.
I've done an especially brief review too:
http://nikharwood.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/dux-bellorum-first-impressions-count.html
:)
Great, but i shall not be tempted untill i have painted another thousand miniatures!!
ok maybe a little