OK, so now were hung...
Democratic Unionist Party - 8 seats - 168,216 votes
Scottish National Party - 6 seats - 482,823 votes
Plaid Cymru - 3 seats - 165,394 votes
Green - 1 seat - 268,024 votes
UK Independence Party - 0 seats - 864,284 votes
British National Party - 0 seats - 536,223 votes
How is that fair? How is that democratic? How is that representing the views of the electorate?
How is it fair that Liberals get 6,421,841 votes and 51 seats, while Labour get 8,194,900 and 247 seats.
Democracy?
The New Scientist had a brilliant article last week on the different types of proportional representation. They showed how the results could be skewed one way or another dependent upon which system was used. Their conclusion was that you can get any party to hold power dependent upon whether you AB, AB+ etc forms of PR. Very enlightenening.
The FT did something similar this week but in less detail.
Let's throw the Lib Dem's and Labour together and see what they can do.
Wow, close result in my home constituency; out of nearly 49 000 votes cast the winning margin was just 4 votes!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/707.stm
There's a good chance this will go to the election court; it did the last time with a margin of 53.
So does Britain tend to do coalitions or minority governments?
Quote from: lentulus on 07 May 2010, 03:48:20 PM
So does Britain tend to do coalitions or minority governments?
Nope.
Last one was 1974.
The last successful one was 1910-1915 under Herbert Asquith...
We don't do this sort of thing very well because our politicians are, on the whole, a bunch of squabbling, infantile, muppets... :(
Where I used to live( Lagan Valley) it would never be that close , not with the DUP in complete control there
"We don't do this sort of thing very well because our politicians are, on the whole, a bunch of squabbling, infantile, muppets... "
Sounds like they frequent the TMP forum;).
Gents - we are not supposed to talk about three things
Politics, Religion, and Women.
Thems the rules in the mess.
Who cares theyre all pumpers!! ;) ;)
( give BNP a go - sort out the real crap then boot those out too) OOOOPs sorry thems the rules none of the above!!
Oh dear - I do so hope you're joking with your BNP comment...would you really want policy for this nation written by 'men' like this?
Not what I want for a decision-maker in running my country. 'nuff said.
Indeed Nik.
Sooo glad to see the racist thugs got wiped out in Barking and everywhere else. What the BNP seem to have missed is the rather simple fact that 'Britain' as a post-Imperial entity was formed out of the Imperial interrelation between England and India. To be 'British', one must embrace the facets of identity ranging from the 'homelands' (England, Walse, Scotland, NI', through the colonies and commonwealth to the Jewel in the Crown that was India'.
Ah well...at least, for all our faults as a nation, the one thing the English don't do is political extremism...and thank the maker for it.
Still, things have taken a turn for the surreal in the post-vote horse trading eh?
Now we've got the bizarre chimera of the Con-Dem-Nation under David Clegg...time to walk off shaking my head muttering about how it'll never work... :D Hehe...
Quote from: nikharwood on 12 May 2010, 10:29:31 PM
Oh dear - I do so hope you're joking with your BNP comment...would you really want policy for this nation written by 'men' like this?
Not what I want for a decision-maker in running my country. 'nuff said.
Haha, you've got to love the BNP's 'direct' approach to decision making. Idiots.
So....
How do we all think the Con-Lib alliance is going?
Happy with the cuts proposed? (40% off the defence budget?)
Are the cuts too quick? Too severe? Or not going far enough?
Has Call-me-Dave hit a zietgeist with this 'Big Society' thing?
This Tory govt - for that is what it is - is making the same mistakes all Tory govts do and is slashing the state regardless of what the impact is on the long term economic stability of the economy. I remember 25% unemployment on Teesside. As millionaire businessmen the cuts will not impact upon their personal finances, but the poorer elements, and this time the lower middle class, in our society will be shafted as we were when the mad bitch was in power. Cameron has nothing new to offer all his talk is just cover for more and harsher cuts.
Hang the bastards, time to sieze the power back into the hands of the democratic mass, and get rid of the the Eton and other parasitical cliques
It hasn't affected me too much yet, but I'm sure it'll work it's way down to me.
I know Dave isn't too impressed with the cuts, they've reduced his teaching time for courses by almost half. So as there's no way he can teach the whole course, they'll dumb down the exams to keep the pass rate up, leading to more people leaving education with worthless qualifications.
I find this 'big society' a bit odd. As it stands an estimated 11,000,000 people (1 in 6) in the UK regularly volunteer, keeping all sorts of social and community projects going, so is Dave saying we need MORE?
British people are innately socialist (small 's') in any case, so this kind of social responsibility is not surprising to me (i've always felt the Socialist principle 'from each according to ability, to each according to need' made perfect sense), but i'm not sure what the 'Big Society' adds to that...other than cutting more services and expecting local people to pick up the slack?
And another thing that i find a bit odd about David Clegg's rhetoric is this idea of the 'broken society'. I genuinely think its not society that's broken but government and governance. We have govenrment departments that should join up their services, but which instead go to war with each other over budgets, responsibilities, kudos, etc.
Health Dept fails to properly educate and control teenagers on family planning.
Teen get pregnant and brings a kid into an unstable home. Social Services leave a kid in the destructive home life.
Dept of Education fails the disturbed kid and churns out and illiterate citizen with no choice but a life of crime.
Home Office puts that kid in jail where he learns more criminal expertise and develops a drug habit.
Kid comes out with an 80% chance of reoffending, and spends the next 10 years in and out of jail.
Kid finally overdoses and ends up in the NHS with no capacity to treat him.
On it goes.
At EVERY point, the government fails, because it doesn't act in the public interest...
:(
Now of course personal responsibility has to come into it, but its mach easier to take that responsibility if from birth you are in a well governed social environment that values you and brings you up.
At least LAbour made a bit of a stab at doing it (although the Facist New Labour cadre, tied to their corporate oligarchy masters screwed it up...
The Tories don't seem to even bother with the pretense... :D
Hehe...
However, i agree Leon, it hasn't really hit me yet. I'm in the private sector so i think the knock on effects still have to work through to us, but i have a lot of friends in the public sector and they are really, really worried...
What i don't understand is;
WHY are these cuts neccessary? The deficit is mangeable. Cutting in by perhaps £40 billion per year as Labour had planned seemed a sensible staged approach to reduce the borrowing. The Tories seem intent on a slash and burn irrespective of consequence.
What i also don't understand is why the banking sector that CAUSED this crisis gets bailed out to the tune of £trillions of PUBLIC money allowing them to continue to pay £multi-million bonuses, yet teachers, nurses, soldiers, and street cleaners get thrown onto the scrap heap?
Sometimes i wonder if i'm from another planet where black is white...
The whole system winds me up as well, but I tend to put more blame on people. There are certain groups who I have no sympathy for, and think make a good case for sterilisation at birth.
I'm sick of the number of children being born into poverty line families, to parents who either don't want to care for, or are unable to care for them. These kids are then dragged up in these dysfunctional families, and are being led straight into similar lives. And how many of the end of being diagnosed with ADHD? Or discipline deficit, as I prefer to call it. If you check the stats, why is it that more kids from low income households develop ADHD, when their parents are always at home?
Benefit scroungers are the next lot. People who have no work ethic, and think that somehow society owes them a free ride. Whether they drop a load of sprogs, or sit at home claiming disability, there needs to be someone who just tells them 'Get a job.' I used to work for Provident, doing small personal loans for people, and the number of houses I went to, where no-one worked, they lived off benefits, and they were all sat on leather sofa's, watching plasma TV's, smoking 40 a day. It made me sick.
Also, compensation culture is ruining everything. Far too many people want an excuse for being clumsy, or want to claim that their human rights have been infringed. If you've fell down a big hole and broke your ankle, tough. Watch where you're going next time. If you're an immigrant who's committed a crime, but don't want to be extradited cos it's a bit rough back home, tough. Shouldn't have broken the law.
>:(
And... relax...!
;D 8)
Quote from: Leon on 21 July 2010, 02:02:51 AM
The whole system winds me up as well, but I tend to put more blame on people. There are certain groups who I have no sympathy for, and think make a good case for sterilisation at birth.
I'm sick of the number of children being born into poverty line families, to parents who either don't want to care for, or are unable to care for them. These kids are then dragged up in these dysfunctional families, and are being led straight into similar lives. And how many of the end of being diagnosed with ADHD? Or discipline deficit, as I prefer to call it. If you check the stats, why is it that more kids from low income households develop ADHD, when their parents are always at home?
Benefit scroungers are the next lot. People who have no work ethic, and think that somehow society owes them a free ride. Whether they drop a load of sprogs, or sit at home claiming disability, there needs to be someone who just tells them 'Get a job.' I used to work for Provident, doing small personal loans for people, and the number of houses I went to, where no-one worked, they lived off benefits, and they were all sat on leather sofa's, watching plasma TV's, smoking 40 a day. It made me sick.
Also, compensation culture is ruining everything. Far too many people want an excuse for being clumsy, or want to claim that their human rights have been infringed. If you've fell down a big hole and broke your ankle, tough. Watch where you're going next time. If you're an immigrant who's committed a crime, but don't want to be extradited cos it's a bit rough back home, tough. Shouldn't have broken the law.
>:(
And... relax...!
;D 8)
100% behind this :)
Quote from: Leon on 21 July 2010, 02:02:51 AM
The whole system winds me up as well, but I tend to put more blame on people.
Indeed, and as i mentioned, personal responsibility is vital (there's far too much emphasis on 'rights').
However, i think people vs society is a false dichotomy.
People ARE society, and society IS people.
A functioning 'good' society, shaped by effective government that administers in the interest of all (rather than in the narrow interest of the corporate oligarchs) creates the capacity for indivuals to make far better choices that greatly benefit society...and so a circle of improvement would begin...
Utopia perhaps?
Quote from: Luddite on 21 July 2010, 06:09:56 PM
Utopia perhaps?
Are we too far gone though? It's been going bad for decades, and it's going to take even longer to bring it back. The government couldn't start forcing people back to work, or overriding compensation culture, because people would then go to European court and appeal against it. And unfortunately, I think legalised sterilisation would hit a few snags.
One theory I've had for years is this: Anyone on Jobseekers Allowance must do 5 hours per week of community service style work. Planting trees, litter picking, painting buildings, working with charities, anything like that. If they fail to do their 5 hours, then the benefits are frozen until the time is made up. Now this would require extra funding from the government, to create the admin side of this plan, but you'd have more people in some form of work, these people would have more respect for themselves, and the areas they're from, and if they didn't turn up for the work, you'd save money by stopping their benefits. Genuine people who want to work would enjoy getting out of the house and doing something worthwhile with their time. The lazy ones wouldn't have any money, and wouldn't have much choice eventually.
Of course there are a few kinks that would need ironing out, but it would be a much better option than the current system.
There is no money...
Lots of money around unfortunately it is all being bled out in the shape of profits to parasites rather than put back in to make things work
There is still no money, unless you want some of these...
(http://lsminsurance.ca/images/weblog/2008/12/400/Zimbabwe-dollars-inflation-rate.jpg)