Ive picked up a couple packs of Numidian cavalry, and I need some help painting the shields, both because 1) I cant get the colors right and 2) Im not sure how to paint them at 10mm scale. Would anyone mind giving me some pointers?
I painted up some 15mm Numidians several months back, and the shields looked like chocolate chip cookies ;)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YzOnDqgl_bg/T02T0BU79MI/AAAAAAAADTA/aYcKA_2tw2s/s912/DSCF0578.JPG)
Any help would be awesome. I dont want 10mm chocolate chip cookies :)
Numidian shield are ox hide as well, so browns, greys and blacks.
28mm scale from Little Big Man & Gripping Beast
http://www.grippingbeast.com/shop.php?CatID=156 (http://www.grippingbeast.com/shop.php?CatID=156)
For Leopard print, light brown ink wash over what you've done and you want a cluster of about 5 dots together to make the spot pattern rather than cookies.
o
o o
oo
Something like that (but many many times smaller and darker)...
Very pale skinned Numidians, or am I thinking of somewhere else?
Quote from: GordonY on 22 August 2012, 03:46:59 PM
Very pale skinned Numidians, or am I thinking of somewhere else?
Nubians from Nubia perhaps..?
Oh how I the next answer and trying to compose it without upsetting people about skin tones:
Nubians are are from present day northern Sudan and are 'Black African' in tone, they were a thorn in the side of all Egyptian rulers from about 1500BCE onwards and the reason even the Romans kept two legions in upper Egypt!
Numidians are from modern day Morocco and Mauritania, and their colouring in the preArab era is more in common with Turaregs and other African nomads, such as Mores and Berbers, which they basically are! Think about Gaddafi and his cronies, really quite pale Mediterranean skin tones, more like the Spanish after a nice long summer...
Now I've insulted everyone, I'll get my coat!
In that case all my Numidian Light Cavalry must come from Nubia :(
I made the same error in my first 15mm armies, they even acknowledge they made the same mistake in the Hannibal WHB supplement! It's one of the common wargames misconception, I cannot remember when it first happened or who did it, I'll let you guys allow the fur to fly!
It's amused me for some time how hard some people have tried to avoid appearing to suscribe to Victorian racial stereotypes. MacBride's book on the Zulus is a good point; he conscientiously painted them about four shades paler than the reality. The Osprey book on the Mughals does the same, only more so, ignoring the difference in colouring between the Turkic rulers and the much darker commoners (who spent most of their lives in the sun, anyway).
No disrespect intended to MacBride's considerable talent as an artist and charm as a man. He is much missed.
Im gonna try to pull this thread back to its original topic. I need more help! (and besides, I try to paint my numidians as Libyans anyway ;) )
Mad Lemmey, do you have any more insight??? Do you have any recommendations for colors or any other ideas? Am I just screwed???
Here is a quick pick I took with my phone last night. This is my first batch of 10mm Numidian cav. I think the cow and ox hide have turned out decently (you can barely see it in the top right corner of this pic), but Im still struggling BIG TIME with the leopard skin. Do I not have enough spots? Am I trying to get too detailed by putting the little point of brown inside the black outline of a spot? THEY LOOK EVEN MORE LIKE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES, AND ALL I WANT TO DO IS EAT THEM!!!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IxUwkKqDToI/UDdyzKdYXeI/AAAAAAAADxE/tljMxfibYtM/s640/photo.JPG)
I don't think you've gone dense enough with your spots - have a look at these:
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/mj007/mj0071003/mj007100300002/6597632-real-leopard-skin.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oCBQnaP5LY4/S-JupMaocTI/AAAAAAAAAhA/PT7iDFJCyHs/s1600/LEOPARD!!.jpg)
You might be better off stippling these rather than painting...
If I was doing these I might be tempted to take Nik's top picture - reduce it and print it off, stick it in the shield and then apply matt varnish..............could work?
Quote from: nikharwood on 24 August 2012, 12:45:20 PM
I don't think you've gone dense enough with your spots - have a look at these:
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/mj007/mj0071003/mj007100300002/6597632-real-leopard-skin.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oCBQnaP5LY4/S-JupMaocTI/AAAAAAAAAhA/PT7iDFJCyHs/s1600/LEOPARD!!.jpg)
You might be better off stippling these rather than painting...
Leopards DO have the most intimidating faces of any cat, don't they?
Returning to the subject, do the shields really look that bad when seen on the table in use? 10mm are not designed to be works of super-lifelike art (though they get pretty close under some brushes).
Aye, they do. Yum. ;D
No but seriously, have you looked at leopard skin?
Here: (http://quantumbiologist.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/leopard222.jpg)
I would suggest the following:
Top 50% of shield paint beige
Bottom 50% of shield paint 'ivory'
Then, carefully over the top paint closely spaced SMALL dark brown dots over the top. Then put an even smaller dot of white in the centre of each dot, offset so it forms a 'c' shape.
I reckon that should do it, but i hope you don't have too many shields to do as i reckon that'll take ages! :o
Personally i'd stick to cowhide. At 10mm leopard skin prints are unlikely to come out in any meaningful detail.
EDIT: Wow, 3 posts while i was typing!!! Leopard skin prints are obviously 'hot'. ;D
Wow, talk about MEGA quick replies! Thanks much for both the pics (yeah, ive looked a pictures of leopards, but I just cant get it right.
I seriously love this forum - everyone is so friggin nice!
Quote from: FierceKitty on 24 August 2012, 12:54:27 PM
Returning to the subject, do the shields really look that bad when seen on the table in use? 10mm are not designed to be works of super-lifelike art (though they get pretty close under some brushes).
Yeah, they look pretty crappy. My wife is occasionally my muse when Im in a funk with colors, or need some advice....last night, I said 'hey, be honest - tell me what you think of these'. And she said "OH THEY ARE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES! DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD KEEP THEM SAFE???"
Luddite, thanks for the advice. Ill have to give it a shot. My first plan was to go ahead and paint the skin a darker beige and blend down to a lower color, but they were turning out so poorly that I gave up on that.
Nik has really got it right, I'd stipple dark brown over light brown to up the spot density, otherwise they are looking good!
The suggestions are at the moment that they wore lots of natural tones as far as clothes go, apart from the aristocracy who had access to higher quality materials.
Lawks this has become a busy topic, four replies in as many minutes! ;D
If they are fighting for Carthage, and you are desperate for some kind of symbol look at,
http://www.littlebigmenstudios.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=1753&osCsid=afa9b956a0742da742b370d4bd49de1b
the geometric Tanit symbol is obviously the easiest, drawn on with a fine pen.
Otherwise I'd go for some brown colour and give it a contrasting brown wash or black. Irregularities in the surface will give plenty of patterning at 10mm.
Quote from: jdeleonardis on 24 August 2012, 01:03:04 PM
Luddite, thanks for the advice. Ill have to give it a shot. My first plan was to go ahead and paint the skin a darker beige and blend down to a lower color, but they were turning out so poorly that I gave up on that.
I use a technique on my shields to 'blend' them as follows.
Say i'm painting a mostly red shield.
Paint the shield a dark red.
Then get a lighter tone red of a flat brush that is quite wide, as wide as the shield if possible.
Then, begin with a single downwards stroke at the top of the shield, but make sure the brush comes off the shield about half way down. It's sort of a flicking action down the shield. You then get a lighter tone across the upper shield half and a darked tone on the bottom half that gives a bit of depth and a nice sort of 'blend without blending'.
If that makes sense...
@-)
Quote from: SV52 on 24 August 2012, 01:29:33 PM
http://www.littlebigmenstudios.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=1753&osCsid=afa9b956a0742da742b370d4bd49de1b
Wow! Littlebigmen Studios have gone large on the new cookie privacy law there! Good on them, but its a little excessive given the ICO's revised 'assumed consent' advice.
Thanks very much with all the comments.
And Luddite, thanks for your blending technique. Im decent at it at larger scales, but mine have looked like crap at 10mm
Quote from: jdeleonardis on 24 August 2012, 01:03:04 PM
Yeah, they look pretty crappy. My wife is occasionally my muse when Im in a funk with colors, or need some advice....last night, I said 'hey, be honest - tell me what you think of these'. And she said "OH THEY ARE CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES! DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD KEEP THEM SAFE???"
Reminds me of my first wife's disheartening comment that my ornate trappings on a Siamese war elephant made the creature look like something out of a circus. She was right, damn it. :( I never learned to love that army.
Coming back to the skin tones subject, I use a burned earth tone for lybians and numidians in my carthage army, with the white basecoat it looks ok for me, darker, but without being "african". In the infantry I mix it with Dark Flesh, and Bronzed Flesh of Citadel, to give it variety of tones, thinking in liby-phoenicians citizens, peasants, and so on.
Numidian shields... In my Carthage Army, I pain them with white-blue tone used for all the army, with Tanit, Palm and Horse symbol, and in the auxiliar units of Numidian/Moorish allies, I use a mix of browns with white/lighter grey spots, like the ones in certain types of cows or horses.
Quote from: Phobos on 26 August 2012, 11:22:13 AM
Coming back to the skin tones subject, I use a burned earth tone for lybians and numidians in my carthage army, with the white basecoat it looks ok for me, darker, but without being "african". In the infantry I mix it with Dark Flesh, and Bronzed Flesh of Citadel, to give it variety of tones, thinking in liby-phoenicians citizens, peasants, and so on.
Numidian shields... In my Carthage Army, I pain them with white-blue tone used for all the army, with Tanit, Palm and Horse symbol, and in the auxiliar units of Numidian/Moorish allies, I use a mix of browns with white/lighter grey spots, like the ones in certain types of cows or horses.
They
are African.
I mean BLACK.
Oh lord, my thread has turned racist!!!! Im j/k :d
Thanks again for all of your help with the leopard skin. I only painted three for what I was working one. One I came close to nailing, and the other two are decent efforts. Here is a quick shot as I was walking out the door this morning (crappy quality)...i should be finished basing them tonight, so Im hoping to get some good pictures up tomorrow.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IxUwkKqDToI/UDdyzKdYXeI/AAAAAAAADxc/zJI9SqGqWhI/s640/photo.JPG)
Well.....I'm very impressed ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
Yuppie, those look right! Nice one sir. :D
Wow man, I LOVE that horses...
Here they are....
Thanks again for all of the help with the skin, and now the kind words! 10mm is still new to me, but I LOVE the figures...they are small enough that they look really good en masse, but big enough that you can get some decent detail on them!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-frKK0qxS_2w/UEAgAf3--_I/AAAAAAAADzc/qe0OS2bhQNA/s912/DSCF0754.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eP1XFeLuJFk/UEAgBU0rtgI/AAAAAAAADzg/kAmzjDoef5U/s912/DSCF0755.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yJ727lALZhU/UEAgCAVomQI/AAAAAAAADzk/pJsVUPK0hrw/s912/DSCF0756.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AqAsqWz3RBE/UEAgDI1Z_JI/AAAAAAAADzs/rguHYJKnU4s/s912/DSCF0757.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GxCCpqsKJEU/UEAgEAMj5YI/AAAAAAAADzo/mNAKQyo6eBI/s912/DSCF0758.JPG)
Hell yeah! Those are great! Really like teh way they have turned out, be proud of those! :D 8) :D
:-bd
Very nicely done!
LOVE 'EM ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
Excellent - those are really nicely done 8)
There's really no chance they'd ever have used zebra skins, is there? (sighs wistfully. It would look good.)
Well done! That is a really impressive look. :o
Mollinary
half way through reading the post I thought I might be able to help, then you went and posted some pictures of the finished and based figures. And very nice little chaps they are as well. Good brushwork. So now I'm not going to bother. :P :)