So GW have discovered computers and are releasing their first sets of books in IPad format. They appear to be more than just PDFs - more like interactive versions of the paper books with things like 360 degree photos etc. in true GW style the first book, Space Marine Codex is priced at £25 - £4 more than the paper version......
Worth it or a money making scam ?.......
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22200010a (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22200010a)
Anything done by the Evil Empire is a scam, I'm surprised that you even had to ask.
£25 for an ibook is taking the piddle.
But then £20 for a single figure is the standard Gisyer Walletshop works to so...
It does look good though.
VERY tempted by the ipad, but i really don't have enough use for one to justify the £400 outlay. :-S
It'd depend on the amount/quality of the extra's I'd think, as £25 is a bit much for an e-book. 3D photo's are nice, but they're not really a massively complex thing to do with the right setup/budget. Is there anything that stands out over the regular books?
Quote from: Luddite on 04 June 2012, 08:53:53 PM
VERY tempted by the ipad, but i really don't have enough use for one to justify the £400 outlay. :-S
I've not had a play on an iPad myself, but I got a Motorola Xoom for Xmas, and it's been fantastic so far. Combined with the Mi-Fi unit we got, I'm now online at every show we go to, in the hotel, the van, anywhere. I've not even got into 10% of what it can do, but I'd definitely recommend one. You can have a go at Durham next Saturday!
8)
Quote from: Leon on 04 June 2012, 11:07:29 PM
It'd depend on the amount/quality of the extra's I'd think, as £25 is a bit much for an e-book. 3D photo's are nice, but they're not really a massively complex thing to do with the right setup/budget. Is there anything that stands out over the regular books?
I think this is the point: essentially, Apple gives away the proprietary software necessary to achieve this kind of publication (we do it all the time with work) - so the cost for this does seem to be high given that production costs & overheads reduce to practically nothing...if you have a look around at what the RPG world are doing with digital media - and the price they're doing it at - this is laughable really...
Quote
I've not had a play on an iPad myself, but I got a Motorola Xoom for Xmas, and it's been fantastic so far. Combined with the Mi-Fi unit we got, I'm now online at every show we go to, in the hotel, the van, anywhere. I've not even got into 10% of what it can do, but I'd definitely recommend one. You can have a go at Durham next Saturday!
8)
I've played with iPads and a Sony S1 Android tablet - again through work: I use the Android almost constantly and the iPad on occasion...I find Android a much more intuitive operating system overall - but the quality of the iPad is outstanding; after all - it is the most expensive piece of glass you'll ever buy. The beauty of tablets - in whatever form - is the ease of access for browsing & integration of software that increases productivity - apps will shortcut huge amounts of things. And they're far less intrusive in your daily life - especially if you're in company / talking to people / with the family etc... Just don't think that you'll use one for serious work though - they're more for accessing material than creating it (if you're looking to write / draw / edit anything).
Don't go getting a 3G version of either of these though - you'll pay £100 more for the privilege of bunging a SIM card in it & coughing up for a monthly contract...just find wifi wherever you go & you'll be fine!
It probably goes without saying that, for gaming, tablets are stunning when you've got rules on-board; everything to-hand, easily retrievable - and with the ability to take pics & write your bat rep as you go all from the same device? Money well-spent if you ask me :)
Quote from: nikharwood on 04 June 2012, 11:34:46 PM
Don't go getting a 3G version of either of these though - you'll pay £100 more for the privilege of bunging a SIM card in it & coughing up for a monthly contract...just find wifi wherever you go & you'll be fine!
Definitely. We got a Mi-Fi unit from T-Mobile for £10 a month, which works basically like a mobile phone and emits a Wi-Fi signal. It's got some usage limits, but I've not hit them yet, and it's perfect for taking to the shows.
£25 for an ebook is a load of toss, It'll never replace the flesh and bones of a real book in your hands, and an ebook won't have that "new book" smell either! ;)
Seriously though, no matter what little extras it has, £25 is a ridiculous price for an ebook. Im sure that when used right ipad/clones are an excellent tool for wargames, but until they come down further in price (and the ebook price as well) it won't be catching on too soon, not when soon it'll be available for a free torrent download or similar somewhere, even if they have some kind of anti piracy code stopping it from being duplicated, some clever hacker will soon crack it.
As a complete old f*rt who understands next to nothing about the majority of modern technology.....(Though I love my iPod)
Can someone answer me this ?
If you've paid for loads of dosh for downloading all sorts of spiffy stuff onto these gizmos.....and then your 'whatever it happens to be' completely dies....and you can't retrieve the data....Haven't you lost the whole lot ?
I just imagine someone's kindle (is that what they're called ?) with dozens/hundreds of books stored on it being lost or broken.....Isn't your whole library gone forever, unless you pay for it all over again......Or are these things 'backupable' (says he inventing a new word !) on your home PC or external hard drive ?
I can fully understand the massive convenience of carrying wodges of information around in a portable gadget.....But I'd be scared to death that I could lose EVERYTHING in a moment, if I used one. (Or lost it)
And I thought that the whole idea of 'electronic books' was that they were oodles cheaper.
Cheers - Phil.
Phil - both Kindles and Apple's iBooks store your purchases in the cloud as well as on the device so if you broke it then you could buy a new one and resynchronise with your account and you'd get your books back.
Thanks for the info GM !
Aha !....That makes a great deal more sense.
Cheers - Phil.
I love wargaming stuff on my iPad, the best so far has to be I Aint Been Shot Mum, which was a lovely pdf thats been designed for tablets, it works so well, far quicker than a rule book. If other companies could do what TFL have done with IABSM, I would never buy a proper rulebook again.
Quote from: Techno on 05 June 2012, 06:58:08 AM
As a complete old f*rt who understands next to nothing about the majority of modern technology.....(Though I love my iPod)
Can someone answer me this ?
If you've paid for loads of dosh for downloading all sorts of spiffy stuff onto these gizmos.....and then your 'whatever it happens to be' completely dies....and you can't retrieve the data....Haven't you lost the whole lot ?
I just imagine someone's kindle (is that what they're called ?) with dozens/hundreds of books stored on it being lost or broken.....Isn't your whole library gone forever, unless you pay for it all over again......Or are these things 'backupable' (says he inventing a new word !) on your home PC or external hard drive ?
I can fully understand the massive convenience of carrying wodges of information around in a portable gadget.....But I'd be scared to death that I could lose EVERYTHING in a moment, if I used one. (Or lost it)
And I thought that the whole idea of 'electronic books' was that they were oodles cheaper.
Cheers - Phil.
And you use Techno as your nickname? :)
Sorry.
Whats wrong with paper and the Mk1 Eyeball? :o
I dont end up tied into a two year contract, I dont end up getting fleeced every two years for the latest gizmo when my previous gizmo is no longer compatible, I dont get fleeced further for upgrades and for new software every five minutes between siad contract renewal because thirty seconds after buying my new gizmo its already out of date, I dont get fleeced for accessories I dont actually need and will never ever use....
And how often do you see someone getting fined for driving without due care and attention whilst reading a book?
At nearly every set of traffic lights I pull up at there is some tosspot plugged into his gizmo, earphones in or on completely oblivious of every other road user. :d
Quote from: Techno on 05 June 2012, 06:58:08 AM
If you've paid for loads of dosh for downloading all sorts of spiffy stuff onto these gizmos.....and then your 'whatever it happens to be' completely dies....and you can't retrieve the data....Haven't you lost the whole lot ?
I just imagine someone's kindle (is that what they're called ?) with dozens/hundreds of books stored on it being lost or broken.....Isn't your whole library gone forever, unless you pay for it all over again......Or are these things 'backupable' (says he inventing a new word !) on your home PC or external hard drive ?
Cloud computing mate. Store it 'in the cloud'. If, of course, you're happy for someone else to have all your files and data...
Quote from: Fenton on 05 June 2012, 09:55:26 AM
And you use Techno as your nickname? :)
Hi Fenton.
For some
completely unfathomable reason I was given the nickname Technodestructorman by a certain person at the EE.....Just don't ask.....I dunno !! ;D ;D
It just got shortened to Techno.
It should be Technophobeman now !....Far more appropriate methinks !!
Cheers - Phil
Is there a re-sell value? If I have a book, I can re-sell it if I decide I don't need it anymore. Can I do this with an e-book?
Is there an option to print out some or all of it?
A minor pain I have with nearly all rulebooks (not just GW) is that at the table I just need the rules for the game, and the rules for whichever army I'm using. Don't need painting or modelling guides. Don't need the 'fluff'. Don't need the army selectors for the other forty eight factions available. This is true whether it's a paper book or on a tablet.
That's why I'm looking forward to Coldwar Commander becoming available as a PDF - hopefilly I can print out the rules section and bind that up nicely, and then print out the army list & rules just for the ones I'm using at the time.
I don't (yet) have a tablet of any description, but I would also worry about using it in a 'normal' gaming environment. Spilt tea, coffee, cola or alcohol will presumably not do one much good . . . ;)?
Cheers, Martyn
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Quote from: Raider4 on 05 June 2012, 11:19:28 AM
Is there a re-sell value? If I have a book, I can re-sell it if I decide I don't need it anymore. Can I do this with an e-book?
Is there an option to print out some or all of it?
A minor pain I have with nearly all rulebooks (not just GW) is that at the table I just need the rules for the game, and the rules for whichever army I'm using. Don't need painting or modelling guides. Don't need the 'fluff'. Don't need the army selectors for the other forty eight factions available. This is true whether it's a paper book or on a tablet.
That's why I'm looking forward to Coldwar Commander becoming available as a PDF - hopefilly I can print out the rules section and bind that up nicely, and then print out the army list & rules just for the ones I'm using at the time.
I don't (yet) have a tablet of any description, but I would also worry about using it in a 'normal' gaming environment. Spilt tea, coffee, cola or alcohol will presumably not do one much good . . . ;)?
Cheers, Martyn
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To resell an ebook,you need the resale rights for it,it can be duplicated if its a PDF or similar, then you can literally make thousands of them, and I dont reckon GW (or any other company who has spent time producing any rules on file) would be too pleased :o
I imagine they would probably give permission to print out a copy as you hold some ownership of the print to some degree, but only for personal use only. You can hold back up copies of the file/disk/book etc as long as you own a copy legally.
Selling the program/file might not be allowed either unless you had a hard copy (on an original disk) but if you had any copies of it stored or printed you would no longer have the rights to own a personal back up or any copies.
I think it something pretty much like that, usually pdfs say somewhere in them what you can or can't do, but GW are A-holes and would get their legal guys onto anyone who might be seen ng thier stuff.. ;)
I'm just surprised that the Evil Empire haven't released a themed tablet of their own and charged the gullible throng , sorry customer, an inflated price for that too....
It'll be on the way.... ;)
Cheers - Phil.
...moulded in resin & called a Fine-Pad no doubt :d
I can tell you, the spikes on that Chaos iPad hurt like buggery when you accidentally sit on it
Quote from: nikharwood on 06 June 2012, 06:31:30 PM
...moulded in resin & called a Fine-Pad no doubt :d
Released with Liquid Greenpad to patch it up and make it function.
Question:
If GW go completely online/virtual, what will all those spotty, unhygenic, pre-pubescent store staff go onto do?
Apple store Geniuses?
As Henry Hyde has pointed out in his blogs - no-one HAS to buy this stuff - please don't complain about scam prices or rip-offs - they are upfront about it.
They cannot force you to buy them and GW do research markets rather well.
If someone wants to pay that kind of money for ebooks - let them - it's a free country - for sellers as well as buyers.
Quote from: robert on 20 June 2012, 04:40:37 PM
As Henry Hyde has pointed out in his blogs - no-one HAS to buy this stuff - please don't complain about scam prices or rip-offs - they are upfront about it.
They cannot force you to buy them and GW do research markets rather well.
If someone wants to pay that kind of money for ebooks - let them - it's a free country - for sellers as well as buyers.
That's all well and good except that the vast majority of GWs 'customers' are actually parents buying for their kids. I've stopped buying GWs overpriced plastic (now failcast) years ago, except bargains on ebay. I doubt a parent subject ot pester power has that option.
As for GWs 'market research' i seem to remember reading an article a while ago which said that GW considers that it is competing with the like sof Playstation and Xbox rather than other tabletop games manufacturers and so it pitches its 'buy in' costs along the line sof a console + starter games, and its add ons at '1 video game' prices. That makes sense why they price a box of 5 figures at £40 i suppose.
Why do we all get upset and rag on GW though, since as you say Robert, we're not forced to buy this stuff?
I think its because older gamers look at GW, and look at what else is available and KNOW the kids who buy GW are getting ripped off (and £20 for 1 'resin' 28mm figure is pretty much the dictionary definition of that). Personally i don't like to see anyone get ripped off...
Quote from: nikharwood on 04 June 2012, 11:34:46 PM
if you have a look around at what the RPG world are doing with digital media - and the price they're doing it at -
Do you have some examples? I think miniatures gamers are not yet looking properly at what can be done with these tools yet; I'm curious about what others are up to.
Quote from: lentulus on 21 June 2012, 01:29:00 PM
Do you have some examples? I think miniatures gamers are not yet looking properly at what can be done with these tools yet; I'm curious about what others are up to.
Well, I don't know about the RPG world, but certainly the publishers of the Blitzkrieg/Coldwar/Futurewar Commander series have just released PDF's of their rulebooks at £12, compared to £20 for the print version.
Cheers, Martyn
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Quote from: robert on 20 June 2012, 04:40:37 PM
As Henry Hyde has pointed out in his blogs - no-one HAS to buy this stuff - please don't complain about scam prices or rip-offs - they are upfront about it.
They cannot force you to buy them and GW do research markets rather well.
If someone wants to pay that kind of money for ebooks - let them - it's a free country - for sellers as well as buyers.
Hey don't get me wrong, I grew up with GW stuff, I still play thier stuff with my kids and my mates, but the GW of today are a different beast of the GW I was used to moons ago.
My eldest agrees that the prices are not right and prefers other companies over them due to his monthly mini's budget (thank god, or I would be totally skint) but still he buys the odd bit here and there. We find ebay is a better and cheaper alternative to getting GW stuff from them rather than going into one of thier stores.
This overpricing of Ebooks is a step too far, I mean given that once the application has been developed (and I don't doubt that it takes some talented people to create such a digital publication) they will be able to churn copies out digitally either the cost of the disk its on , or for nothing if its a download or app etc. I wouldn't be so against it if they were not so over the top for the $$$$, but thats what they are about now, cash is king. Its a shame the new gen can't see it.
Also as a consumer of GW products (and a loyal one, once) I feel I do have a right to moan about prices, being that like I said, we play quite a few GW games. Yes I feel they are ripping people off left right and centre, lets face it there is a global recession on, some people I know are totally broke from day to day. GW seem to think that its a good idea to raise prices sky high so that as luddite said, it hammers parents who ultimately have to pay for the privilage lining GW fat cats pockets.
You see its not a case of you dont have to buy cos no ones forcing you because for some parents, yes someone is forcing you (kids do that) or even you dont have to buy coz its so expensive and you cant afford it. GW can be upfront about the price of stuff because they have legions of gribbly fan boys willing to sell a kidney for the latest "thing" they are marketing and selling, not because they have excellent marketing. The fact is IMHO is that they are just marketing to the vast amounts of young uns' that know nothing other than GW, somehow I can't see the general public being asked if the stuff is pricey or not, or if anyone really needs what they make.
They seem to think that historical is a no go (since discontinuing the warhammer historical range, which I'm getting into at the mo, which is much more like the old GW I would say) but did they ask the hordes of historical wargamers I see from convention to convention, probably not, as other companies do a better job at serving them than them, and at a better and more reasonable price too.
Lots of people complain about GW, thats because there is something just plain wrong and GW is nothing more now than a souless corporate machine that has lost its heart.
Quote from: robert on 20 June 2012, 04:40:37 PM
As Henry Hyde has pointed out in his blogs - no-one HAS to buy this stuff - please don't complain about scam prices or rip-offs - they are upfront about it.
They cannot force you to buy them and GW do research markets rather well.
If someone wants to pay that kind of money for ebooks - let them - it's a free country - for sellers as well as buyers.
So . . . . because it's not an absolute neccessity, no one's allowed to voice an opinion about it?
Excuse me while I
don't subscribe to that philosophy.
Cheers, Martyn
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Okay chaps - I must admit I had not thought about parents being pestered by kids to buy rip-off merchandise, that is plain wrong and GW have the moral responsibility of an Ork in that respect.
Do they care? Do they read this ?
I did not say that no one is allowed to voice an opinion, that would be silly Martyn :) - any more than Henry did in his blog.
Quote from: Raider4 on 21 June 2012, 01:46:56 PM
have just released PDF's of their rulebooks at £12,
And a good idea, but not even a start given what the new platforms could deliver. With a tablet or e-book reader you can have the electronic version at the table as conveniently (more conveniently?) as a paper version. Consider what just the modest use of hypertext can add to rule cross-referencing.
If it's well done, of course, any media can be used to transform good ideas into crap.