Libyan/Numidian skirmishes (javelinmen equipped with no body armour, just small round shield) and Hannibal's veterans (spearmen equipped with roman captured shield and chainmail) would be great additions to the new Carthaginian range. Also would be nice to have another additional pose of Iberian scutarii and caetarii to form units of these troops.
BTW add my vote for Campanians, Apulians and Samnites... and what next maybe some troops for Pyrrhus of Epirus?... ??? yes, I LOVE this period. :-[
Yeah, me too, awesome period between the death of Alexander and the Rise of Rome before the second punic war.
Techno's gonna be buuuuuuuusssssseeeyy!
Says who ? ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Id' rather be too busy, than not busy enough !
Cheers - Phil.
'Cos I'm lazy, link some pictures for reference, and we'll see if we can get these done after the Falklands.
8)
(http://d.imagehost.org/0433/Libyan_Skirmishers.jpg)
About Hannibal´s veterans, I can´t find any good image of them, but they employ a long thrusting spear as the triarii, with mail shirt of roman origin and long oval thureos/scutum type shields, with celtic/roman helmets.
Might be some good reference pictures in some of the Osprey books, me thinks ;)
Quote from: Blaker on 31 May 2012, 02:20:05 PM
Might be some good reference pictures in some of the Osprey books, me thinks ;)
I've got a bunch of Osprey's and WRG books which Gandalf brought in a while back, so I can check those for info as well. It was really just laziness on my part, if there's something online, I can just point Techno towards it and say "A couple of those please!" :D
ooooh I like pointing and asking for a couple of those please :D
Hmmmm ..... 'A couple of those ?'....Sounds like I could be making something like choc-ices soon then.....Or is that naughty Mr Blaker being smutty ? ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil. (Do you want wafers with those ?) ;)
ooh you have smutty stuff toooo. . . . :d :d
Veterans:
(http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/johnny_shumates_portfolio/images/70205/319x425.aspx)(http://www.michtoy.com/michtoy/HTI-9212.jpg)(http://renegademiniatures.com/celt/images/figures/lib08.jpg)
Libyans:
(http://renegademiniatures.com/celt/images/figures/lib04.jpg)(http://www.timecastmodels.co.uk/og15ancients_1/LY3.jpg)
:)
BTW there's only lacking numidians javelinmen, slingers and command to have a "new" complete range (supposing the archers in carthaginian range are numidians). Although I'm not personally interested in those... just an idea.
Back when I was still doing ancients, my Romans got soundly thumped by Numidians at least once.
Quote from: Blaker on 31 May 2012, 05:57:04 PM
ooh you have smutty stuff toooo. . . . :d :d
Stop it !! ;D ;D ;D....
No I haven't !Keep the reference pics coming guys....they're going to be extremely useful.
Cheers - Phil.
Got to agree..this range is not complete without the all-important veterans ;)
So add please my vote for those.
Btw: here's a little review of the range:
http://www.ricks-warmaster.com/pendraken_carthaginians.htm
Quote4/ There is no veteran infantry, & tell me a Carthaginian who doesn’t field them, which is a shame.
:-\
I never field Veterans, and I haven´t lose any battle yet. :D
You'll need them when you meet Scipio!. ;)
I've popped these on the Requests lists, and I think we'll get the veteran's done sooner rather than later.
8)
In fact, I barely use elephants, with gallic an iberian mercenaries and numidian horsemen, it´s enough.
Quote from: Phobos on 21 June 2012, 10:57:17 AM
In fact, I barely use elephants, with gallic an iberian mercenaries and numidian horsemen, it´s enough.
hmm that's quite true...Carthaginian armies heavily relied on mercenaries. Unfortunatelly, Pendraken's Gallic range is also quite "ancient", which is a pitty. In order to properly build an army, you have to use figures form other manufacturers and i can't imagine that this was intended. ???
Save for the Italians in the Roman section (which somehow neither look like typical Italian Allies nor like Latins..what were they modeled after?), there is no way to include Italiotes in the army, no Spanish cavalry, no Celtiberians and so on..
The labeling is also confusing sometimes. The "Javelinmen" and "Citizen Spearmen" seem to be the same: African Heavy Infantry with Linen Armour/Cuirasses & a thrusting spear..there's no sense in selling these under 2 different names...I'd rather turn them into 1 blister with 4 poses.
Of course, the real "Citizen Infantry" which was drafted during the mercenary revolt or the Roman assault on Africa is missing; plus all of the infantry wear the same helmet, despite the wide variety of models used by the Carthaginians :(
The Romans are better, but I have no idea what those two types of archers are meant for..no Roman legion of the time included or distinguished between heavy and light archers. Maybe those are meant to be Syracusians (the light ones..but they wear the same wrong helmets as the "heavies")?
There still needs to be a lot of work to be done to turn this into a proper range, sorry but that's how it is. :-X
Please add my vote to all the Carthaginian stuff.
Thanks
Just about to make a start on the Vets and the Libyan spearmen chaps.
Pics to come as soon as there's something to see. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Woot! ;D :D
Right chaps.
Quick question (s) re the Vets and the Libyan Javelins !
In reality, how long would the veterans' spears have been ? And....
Would I be right in assuming that the javelins for the Libyans would have been around 6 feet long ? :-\
The figures themselves are just about done, apart from those items.
Ta - Phil.
Right then chaps.
Still some cleaning/finishing and tweaking to do, but can I just ask if the shields look about the right size ?
I'm assuming that the shield on the 'vet' on the left needs widening fractionally with a 'rim', so it looks similar to the one next to it ??
Does the round shield 'blue takd' on to the Libyan look about right, size wise ?
I've been mucking about with these shields for what seems like forever now ! ;)
Lemmey's answered the question above...so that's sorted.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/technodestructorman/IMGP4532.jpg)
Cheers - Phil.
Sheilds look good (they 'liberated' a lot of Roman kit during their stay in Italy), think the Libyan's shield hand needs to be a little more central?
Thanks Lemmey.
Pants ! ;D
Now I've got two conflicting bits of reference.
One shows the shield held by a central strap....
The other shows the shield held near the rim...with a central strap for the elbow.
I think I'll go for being held at the centre....As these were smallish shields that sort of makes it more likely...Doesn't it ??
Cheers - Mr confused.
Makes more sense to me, I'd want my hand covered! ;D
Why not simply use the existing Roman republican triarii as veterans, remove the plumes or not and there you go. After all Hannibal admired the Roman infantry so much he equipped his own men with the gladius at one point. At the rate they killed Romans, getting kit would not be a problem.
That's rather a spiffy idea !
I'll see if Leon's sent me back the original masters....Could do some ultra quick conversions on those.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 20 August 2012, 11:39:27 AM
Right chaps.
Quick question (s) re the Vets and the Libyan Javelins !
In reality, how long would the veterans' spears have been ? And....
Would I be right in assuming that the javelins for the Libyans would have been around 6 feet long ? :-\
The figures themselves are just about done, apart from those items.
Ta - Phil.
Veterans were former lybian, iberian and italic soldiers of Hannibal, so I think that a long thrusting spear like the one in the current lybian spearmen, or if you prefer, long as the latin hasta of the new Triarii could be right.
6 Feet long for a javelin looks way too long imho.
P.s. Excellent work Techno ;)
Many thanks for the input Phobos. :-bd
The cunning plan is....
Finish the little chaps off...Post some photos...
If the javelins look a little on the long side, it will be the work of moments to cut/grind them down a tiny bit.
Really pleased you like them so far 'P' !
Cheers - Phil
Another idea, stolen shamely from Angus Mc Bride plates: Falcatas in their scabbards for the veterans, This way they don´t look like "other" Romans.
Another cunning plan ! ;)
Thanks - Phil.
(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k611/technodestructorman/IMGP4537.jpg)
EEEK !!
Someone shrink the piccy !! Please !!......By 50 % ?? (More ??)
Libyans and vet's.
Cheers - Phil.
These look very nice (the falcata on the figure to the right has been done exceptionally well I thought). May I put forth two observations please?
a) The leg guards on the veterans to my eye look a tad out of scale i.e. oversized.
b) Regarding the spear on the third figure from the left i.e. the spear holding veteran; could we please have the spear pointing upwards and closer to his body as he would have held it in battle. This pose (and again this is just in my opinion) looks as if he is standing guard and not about to enter battle.
In all other respects these are lovely indeed. =D> =D> =D>
Nice one Techno!
Quote from: Theo on 30 August 2012, 04:51:27 PM
These look very nice (the falcata on the figure to the right has been done exceptionally well I thought). May I put forth two observations please?
a) The leg guards on the veterans to my eye look a tad out of scale i.e. oversized.
b) Regarding the spear on the third figure from the left i.e. the spear holding veteran; could we please have the spear pointing upwards and closer to his body as he would have held it in battle. This pose (and again this is just in my opinion) looks as if he is standing guard and not about to enter battle.
In all other respects these are lovely indeed. =D> =D> =D>
Thanks Theo.
I'll see if I can 'thin' the leg guards just a tad...(I understand exactly what you mean)..The problem with ankles and shins, is that if we make them
too thin, (i.e..much more lifelike in proportion) they cause problems in the casting and end up becoming too fragile once cast.
Looking at the actual model, I'm really not sure how far I dare go....They look a
far worse blown up 2 1/2 to 3 times as you see them in the piccy ....honestly !
I'll tweak the arm.
Pants !.....I thought I'd put in a wire in the arm and I could just chop a bit of putty out, bend it into position and then fill it in with a tiny bit of new green stuff. WRONG ! :'( ;)
I'll re-do that tomorrow morning. (Nurse...the screens !....armechtomy and we'll stitch a new one on.)
Cheers - Phil.
Remember how your feet and ankles swell while marching, everyone.
Quote from: Techno on 30 August 2012, 07:50:56 PM
Thanks Theo.
I'll see if I can 'thin' the leg guards just a tad...(I understand exactly what you mean)..The problem with ankles and shins, is that if we make them too thin, (i.e..much more lifelike in proportion) they cause problems in the casting and end up becoming too fragile once cast.
Looking at the actual model, I'm really not sure how far I dare go....They look a far worse blown up 2 1/2 to 3 times as you see them in the piccy ....honestly !
I'll tweak the arm.
Pants !.....I thought I'd put in a wire in the arm and I could just chop a bit of putty out, bend it into position and then fill it in with a tiny bit of new green stuff. WRONG ! :'( ;)
I'll re-do that tomorrow morning. (Nurse...the screens !....armechtomy and we'll stitch a new one on.)
Cheers - Phil.
Needless to say Phil I am the first to admit I know next to nothing about sculpting/casting and I totally respect what you are saying about them needing to be a tad thicker to avoid weak ankles. For what it's worth I am full of admiration for what sculptors like yourself can do and quite a bit thankful as well, as it is via your talents that we get all those lovely miniatures! :x Keep'em coming please! :D
Quote from: FierceKitty on 30 August 2012, 11:29:11 PM
Remember how your feet and ankles swell while marching, everyone.
Well said FK !! ( Damn....Wish I'd thought of that one ! ;D ;D ;))
Thanks again Theo !.....I forgot to say I was really pleased you liked the falcata.
Rather than thinning the 'leg guards'....I think they might look a tad better, if I make the 'knee guards' a little less obtrusive and 'sticky out' perhaps ?
I'll give it a whirl.....Won't take long to tweak those. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Woa, I love the veterans (numidians too) I think that they even get the look with little modifications for celtiberians (With disc breasplate in place of chainmail i.e.)
Agree with Theo, the pose of the spearmen could be more "warmonger", anywayt, they look sweet :D, nice work Techno!
Thanks Phobos...
Spearman done already....Now to have a go at those 'knees'. ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 31 August 2012, 06:11:38 AM
Rather than thinning the 'leg guards'....I think they might look a tad better, if I make the 'knee guards' a little less obtrusive and 'sticky out' perhaps ?
:-bd :-bd :-bd that is exactly what I meant mate; the area over the knees not the lower part. The lower part looks fine.
Done !! ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Just noticed this thread and boy am I happy I did, the veterans, and the libyans look fantastic Phil, you have done it again, Cant wait to get my hands on them, and the new Spaniards. Just need Gallic heavy infantry types now ;D
all the best
Sean
Thanks Sean...
Cheers - Phil.