The Guard is reborn!
A decade ago had a Division of the Guard Infantry and a brigade of the cavalry, but the infantry were not very inspiring and did not have guard gunners.
The 1870 range was revamped a couple of years back with excellent infantry, superb cavalry, properly sized guns and nice gunners in their fur busbies.
Last year decided that the Guard should be reborn, but in its full majesety of the 2 divisions of infantry, large cavalry division and 14 batteries. Selling on the old figures at bring and buys even paid for the new corps!
So see attached link for the recently completed Guard corps.
http://s1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc461/BernardGanley/1870%20French%20Imperial%20Guard/
Next task is to go from the sublime to the ridiculous - a large Republican Corps for the winter campaign of 1870-71
Those are superb Bernie, dammit, realy good job! Love the painting, well done indeed!
See what the chat about Guard limbers is about now...
Erm, 'The Ill-Fated General Bourbaki' i RECOGNISE him, he's the even more ill faited Napoleon III:
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc461/BernardGanley/1870%20French%20Imperial%20Guard/18Theill-fatedGenBourbaki.jpg)
Spot the difference - oh yeah, yours is better painted!
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc94/madlemmey/Tixiers%20Division%201870/011.jpg)
I was just thinking of finishing VI Corps too; I really want to get onto the Guard one day. That does convince me that 'TTLGB' units are too small for my (and Dave & Leon's bank balance's) taste!
Well done Bernie, it is good to see another TTLGB Guard Corps hit the table! Love the Carabiniers, was a bit surprised by the artillery. Where do the red trousers come from, I'd always worked on the principle they were blue, like the line?
ML, if I recall correctly, your bases represent a regiment (ie 3 battalions), with 30 figures? While I understand your preference for the visual appeal, if my calculations are correct you are actually diminishing the fortunes to be passed on to Dave and Leon's heirs and successors! A French regiment in TTLGB would have 3 13 man battalions or 39 figures - a Prussian one would have 3x17 men, or 51 figures. So switch to TTLGB for the sake of the poor waifs yet unborn. You know it makes sense!
Mollinary
Quote from: mollinary on 22 January 2012, 04:07:27 PM
Well done Bernie, it is good to see another TTLGB Guard Corps hit the table! Love the Carabiniers, was a bit surprised by the artillery. Where do the red trousers come from, I'd always worked on the principle they were blue, like the line?
ML, if I recall correctly, your bases represent a regiment (ie 3 battalions), with 30 figures? While I understand your preference for the visual appeal, if my calculations are correct you are actually diminishing the fortunes to be passed on to Dave and Leon's heirs and successors! A French regiment in TTLGB would have 3 13 man battalions or 39 figures - a Prussian one would have 3x17 men, or 51 figures. So switch to TTLGB for the sake of the poor waifs yet unborn. You know it makes sense!
Mollinary
I agree, unless the guard are different the Artillery Trousers should be blue, maybe with a stripe (depending on your sources)...
Okay, it's a few figures difference Mollinary, 9 for the French and 21 for the Prussians, it will make a difference over time! But I have got 2 French Corps and 2 Prussian, plus my Wurttenbergers, so I think I've put a fair few pennies into 'The Associated Molder's and Lead Pourer's Benevilent Fund'! ;)
Ah but ML, I am further progressed towards megalomania than you, and can therefore claim a larger statue in the Schloss Pengilley's games room. My French army has six corps and shed load of cavalry, my Germans have two Bavarian corps, one Saxon Corps, the Wurttemberg Field division and six Prussian Corps (with another one coming) and five cavalry divisions. As my empire spreads the Austrian army is now on the Horizon, and seven more corps will soon reach Bohemia via Sri Lanka. So, as they say, resistance is futile!
Typing ceases as he is hauled away with sound of metallic maniacal laughter echoing around his padded cell. But perhaps padded cells don't echo?
Mollinary
All i can say is:
;D
Hi Mad Lemmey
Re painting - if any better than your own stuff then down to Army Painter as all my figures these days are simply block colours and then Army painter for the shading
Hi ML/Mollinary
Re Red trousers on the guard artillery - I have used Sapherson "Armies of 1870" as my source for 1870 and this also helps when doing casualty removal from their line cousins as to which corps suffers a possible loss to morale. I do have references to Guard artillery in Blue trousers in 1854/1859 if that helps.
Bernie
Cool, I bow to your sources! 8)
But being a curmudgeonly old so and so, I'll go on fighting! I'll see your Sapherson with my Nigel Smith, and raise you an Edouard Detaille! Smith's two part work on the uniforms of the FPW, gives all the artillery of the Guard dark blue trousers, with a red stripe for other ranks and a gold one for officers. The incomparable Detaille produced a very famous painting in 1890 showing the mounted artillery of the Guard being led into battle at Rezonville by Colonel de Vassoigne. This also shows the blue trousers described by Smith. Paintings are not of themselves authoritative, but Detaille has a very high reputation for accuracy. I' ll keep looking for other sources, and report back.
Cheers,
Mollinary
Very nice!
the Guard lancers were dressed almost like the line during the war and they paid a high price for it at Rezonville/Mars-la-Tour, being confused for uhlans . But I did them like you in white and light blue. The dragoons also lost their green uniforms for blue one but I also kept them in green. Good job!
I like your red trousers...
But I also like Dark Blue with stripes...
There's only one way to find out:
FIGHT!
Rather than Harry Hill rather do it as FPW wargame - Corps on Corps!
Very nice Bernie - looking forward to seeing your winter campaign [got a pile of figures for that waiting for my attention at some point!]
Guys, guys, will you stop posting so quick - I've just lost two posts to the draconian review protocol! I found one more source to justify my contention, and to help me justify to myself not repainting my guard artillery. It is on the grosser generalstab website, and is Leinhart and Humbert's Les Uniformes de L'Armee Francaise. Plates 55-77 cover the guard of nappy3, and show only blue trousered artillerymen. So, I am happy to let it lie, with no repainting necessary!
Until we meet on the Field of Honour,
Mollinary
Here is one picture of the guard artillery
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchdetail.cfm?trg=1&strucID=587726&imageID=1629856&total=41&num=20&parent_id=585363&word=&s=¬word=&d=&c=&f=&k=0&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&lword=&lfield=&imgs=20&pos=25&snum=&e=w
Thanks Le Manchou, I have never seen that engraving before. Ah, the wonders of the Internet!
Mollinary
The Guard Corps looks great. I'm working on my forces for TTLGB but all I have so far are a few cavalry regiments and artillery batteries per side. I don't think I'll build the Guards for either side until I get at least two regular corps finished.
But it doesn't hurt to look and dream...
Quote from: mollinary on 22 January 2012, 04:26:07 PM
Ah but ML, I am further progressed towards megalomania than you, and can therefore claim a larger statue in the Schloss Pengilley's games room. My French army has six corps and shed load of cavalry, my Germans have two Bavarian corps, one Saxon Corps, the Wurttemberg Field division and six Prussian Corps (with another one coming) and five cavalry divisions. As my empire spreads the Austrian army is now on the Horizon, and seven more corps will soon reach Bohemia via Sri Lanka. So, as they say, resistance is futile!
Typing ceases as he is hauled away with sound of metallic maniacal laughter echoing around his padded cell. But perhaps padded cells don't echo?
Mollinary
One is decidedly impressed; how many figures to a Mollinary Division? I work on 1 figure represents about 70 so infantry battalions have 14 figures, regiments 42, brigades 84, divisions 168, corps 340 plus two battalions od Jaegers, plus divisional and corps artillery, plus divisional cavalry, plus command figures, comes to about 500 figures per corps (I have only 2 Prussian corps, plus a division of guard, plus a division of reserve cavalry, plus a division of dragoons, plus a brigade of wurtemburgers). I'm currently increasing my French army to 2 full corps, 2 reserve cavalry divisions and a division of guard. The Austrians, 2 full infantry corps with all supporting arms plus a division of light cav (1st of course) plus 2 divisions of reserve cavalry plus the Royal Saxon Army in its entirety; all in all i think i can put about 3000 figures on the table, quite enough for me though I must say I loved the photos of your Gravelotte game with DZ you posted last year. We really must try and arrange a 2 day w/end using my Nachod skalitz board, though I say it myself it is nice.
Quick estimation:
Mine are c30 figures to an infantry base, 10 for jagers/chasseurs 15 for cav, guns two per base plus 12 crew (more for horse artillery with limber etc).
So French are running at 16 Infantry bases (three divisions and a brigade), 4 chasseurs 10 cav (three divisions plus Guard Heavy brigade) and 14 batteries = 750 figures, plus generals & Limbers = c780 (that is most of 2nd Corps, 1st Division 6th Corps and all 6th Corps artillery)
Prussians are 16 Infantry bases (2 divisions in 2 corps; never notices that before), 3 jager, 9 cav (two divisions, Guard dragoons and lots of dragoon squadrons; I'm counting dragoon squadron as half units) and 16+ batteries = c730 plus generals and limbers = c750
Wurttenbergers = 6 Infantry, 3 jagers, 1 cav, 9 guns = c350 Now my head hurts! ???
Okay - you guys out figure me! Never noticed how evenly balanced that was! Must be a sign to finish 6th French and start Pruissian/Hessian XI Corps!
I have another 150 or so of each side waiting to get based and started, another Division per side.
Wurttembergers are popular aren't they! :D
Haven't counted for a while so just did a very quick German head count for 1870. It came to 227 line and guard infantry battalions
And 23 Jaeger battalions. At 17/18 per battalion for the former and 12 for the latter it is something like 4,150 infantry. 68 cavalry
Regiments at 12 apiece come in at some 816 horse. Artillery number 186 batteries (guns) with 3/4per crew. I have no idea how many
Mounted generals I have, but it's 2 figures for brigade command, 3 for division and 4 for a corps. Army command have half a dozen.
About one more corps coming!
The French have smaller battalions (13) figures each, and I have 18 Zouave and Turcos, 12 Marines, 23 Guard, and 200 line
Battalions, and 15 Chasseur battalions of 10, so a total of 3,439 -ish. Cavalry 20 light and 6 guard cavalry 15 man regiments, and 26 Lancer,
Dragoon and Cuirassier regiments, for 702 horse. 107 gun batteries and 22 Mitrailleuse, all of 3/4 crew.
Generals as for the Germans. Bottom line, a Mollinary division mirrors its particular historical counterpart, but average Prussians
will have 200+ infantry, 12 cavalry and 4 gun batteries.
I also have the 1866 Saxons, and 2 Austrian corps, the rest are on their way to Sri Lanka.
Wow!
Mollinary
Quote from: mollinary on 25 January 2012, 06:27:19 PM
I also have the 1866 Saxons, and 2 Austrian corps, the rest are on their way to Sri Lanka.
Wow!
Mollinary
What happens in Sri Lanka, Mollinary? :o
WOW! That's a lot of figures! :o
Le Manchou’s post of 22 January is of particular interest because he gave us a link to an engraving appearing to show the Artillery of the Guard in the plain blue veste rather than the red-frogged dolman, although the illustration is not clear enough to be completely certain about this. This is contrary to many authorities, most notably Detaille in En Batterie who shows the Guard gunners at Rezonville in dolmans. However, it is consistent with the view of Louis Delpérier, the doyen of Second Empire uniform studies, who writes in the first of his Osprey Men-at-Arms title on the French army of 1870 that only officers and NCOs wore the dolman on campaign and that gunners wore the veste. A plate in Delpérier’s more recent La Garde Impériale de Napoléon III shows a Guard gunner in 1870 wearing the veste.
Delpérier strikes a further blow at the accuracy of Detaille’s great picture (and at the romantics among us all) when he writes in La Garde Impériale de Napoléon III that the trumpeter’s white dolman was worn in full dress only, not on campaign. This is scarcely surprising. A white dolman worn in action would have made the unfortunate trumpeter even more of a ‘bullet magnet’ than was actually the case.
Vitrier
Hertsblue, Sri Lanka is a magic isle where the painting elves live, and if their palms are crossed with silver they weave their magic and my battalions return complete. A bit of basing and flagging to create a sense of uniformity and Bob's your uncle. A sad necessity for me - afflicted with the triple plagues of megalomania, no time and more money than sense.
Vitrier, thanks for bringing that up on the guard artillery uniforms. I Had read of this theory, and eminently sensible it seems to me. But ultimately it is a question between field uniform and dress uniform, and the Wargamer's choice. I appreciate that I might have expressed myself better about Detaille, but what I meant to remark on was the accuracy of his uniforms vis a vis a particular period, rather than exactly what was worn by a regiment at a particular event. The red trouser debate was rather different, as I had not seen any source which suggested that this ever formed part of any guard artillery uniform, although Bernie has now pointed me towards an apparent reference in a Wargamer's painting guide by Sapherson. We live and learn.
Mollinary
Mollinary
It is for me to apologise if I gave the impression of being a pernickety critic of Detaille’s work. It was to a large extent his pictures in the Musée de l’Armée in Paris that first got me interested in the Second Empire over forty years ago. Sadly, most have now been withdrawn to storage. Above all, I regret the disappearance of En Batterie, which used to preside so majestically over the museum’s staircase.
Vitrier
Vitrier,
Not a case of anyone having to apologise - I certainly did not take your post as pernickety. It merely got me to re-read my own post, and to realise that what I was trying to say could be misinterpreted. As it happens I think the veste theory is very plausible, but unfortunately the Pendraken figures are wearing the dolman! Actually I don't think it is so unfortunate, because they are great figures.
Regards,
Mollinary
Mollinary
Happily, in 10mm the presence or absence of frogging on jackets can be dealt with by the paintbrush. Furthermore, I think all ranks wore the dolman in the Crimea, and in Italy in 1859.
Vitrier