I was just pondering as I was browsing a couple of other fora, and noticed a bit of a theme with some things.
GW keep banging their prices up, reducing quantities, switching to Finecast, etc. Other companies have very high shipping rates, some have appalling customer service, some take upto 6 months to ship, and some even have strange minimum order levels which stop you getting the odds and ends you might need. Despite any of it, people still buy from them?
So, if you like the product, is there a limit to what you'll stand for?
(PS, I know that we need more pics on the website, people in glass houses and all... :D )
Quality, price and customer service always win it for me. You lose anyone one of these and then you've probably lost me as a customer.
Probably the 2 most important factors for me are quality and service. I'm willing to pay a premium for a company that can provide both.
Hi Leon the following is meant in the best spirit. (I have an order in and I don’t want it to be thrown in the bin :D)
First off I think the enemy is not other 10mm manufacturers it is 15mm manufacturers. To me the current crop of Napoleonic’s has regenerated my enthusiasm, the quality is so good. I cannot see myself buying anything in 15mm again. I am sure other people feel the same about ranges such as the new Roman/Carthaginians, AWI, SCW and L-of-A. But to replace 15mm as the most popular range for the wargame community as whole you need to be able to compete on level terms with them and then the logic of 10mm will win the battle for you.
What I mean by this is you need ranges that are complete enough for people to buy the basics and be able to wargame with them straight away, so they can go down their club and their mates will be impressed. So a range has to have the basics done first, all the nice to haves such as engineers, Archduke Charles Legion and the umpteenth brilliant looking matchlock musketeer are all nice-to-haves but not the bread and butter basics. The infantry cavalry and artillery must be done before the nice-to-haves so a working army can be created. Coupled with all of this there is a need for rules that cater primarily for 10mm first and all the other scales second and these then should be used to hold 10mm wargame competitions. I do not do competitions now but nearly all of my 15mm ancient armies were originally bought for competition gaming and it did induce me to spend many many hundreds of pounds on many many ancient armies. So perhaps you should look at finding “that“ set of wargame rules that is right for 10mm.
As regards your original question as k 5 people and you will get 5 different answers. Its all a personal preference thing. All the following points to me are equally important but different people will assign varying importance to each. They are given here in no particular order of merit.
• The models you want when you want them. By that I mean if you have started buying a range that is incomplete you will look elsewhere to fill the gaps.
• Quality. The models must be at least of minimum quality (whatever that is) for you to spend money. If there is a choice the highest quality model generally wins but not always.
• Price. People will generally pay extra for quality but there are limits. GW stuff is high quality but somehow they always seem to leave me with the impression they are ripping my lads off. There is a chap in Pontypool that sells fantastically good vehicles but the price is just toooo much. On the other hand there is a chap in the East Midlands that sells high quality tanks that are rather expensive but he spent half an hour going through the finer points of air-brushes and their use with me, gives me 25% off for substantial orders and still always throws in a few extras, now that breeds loyalty.
• Service. That is where you earn customer loyalty. When you provide a personal service people will generally forgive any fo-pahs. All of the preceding points can be a little off but you can still be first choice when that service is there.
Cheers, Rob :)
Quote from: Leon on 18 January 2012, 07:42:42 PM
So, if you like the product, is there a limit to what you'll stand for?
(PS, I know that we need more pics on the website, people in glass houses and all... :D )
Yes, there definately are limits for me.
Poor service.
Lack of communication.
Requesting excessive data.
Overlong delivery times (if Pendraken didn't score so hghly on most of my other red lines, the 2-4 week delivery delays would be a step too far).
Poor quality (including miscasts, excessive flash, etc.)
Fiddly bits & unneccessary construction (Perry plastics...shudder)
Living where i do, stupid postage rates for living in the ZE post code grrrrrr >:(
They have a little thing free postage to x, y and z but if living in a particular post code contact them and then lo and behold offer to post it for £7, which wouldnt be bad on a £50 order, but when the order was £5.50 not on at all >:(
it will stop me buying the product, simple as that.
not seeing the product can put me off, but if I am interested in it i will dig around and see if i can find an image elsewhere.
good service is important too, poor service is a baddy, will cause avoidance of the place again.
Some interesting stuff so far. I wasn't posting this with my 'Pendraken' head on, it was more interest in the difference between the wargaming market, and the more modern Amazon/eBay instant gratification style of retailing. With so many companies being run on a part-time cottage industry basis, will they suffer long-term as the bigger companies can offer the shiny professional marketing, and the next day delivery?
Quote from: Rob on 18 January 2012, 10:57:42 PM
What I mean by this is you need ranges that are complete enough for people to buy the basics and be able to wargame with them straight away, so they can go down their club and their mates will be impressed. So a range has to have the basics done first, all the nice to haves such as engineers, Archduke Charles Legion and the umpteenth brilliant looking matchlock musketeer are all nice-to-haves but not the bread and butter basics. The infantry cavalry and artillery must be done before the nice-to-haves so a working army can be created.
I agree with that completely, and hopefully those gaps will become less and less as we move forward. On ranges which are still in the works though, it's only a temporary thing. The Naps for example, it's simply that the designer likes to do things in an organised way, so it's all foot first, then cav, then art, etc.
Quote from: Rob on 18 January 2012, 10:57:42 PM
Coupled with all of this there is a need for rules that cater primarily for 10mm first and all the other scales second and these then should be used to hold 10mm wargame competitions. I do not do competitions now but nearly all of my 15mm ancient armies were originally bought for competition gaming and it did induce me to spend many many hundreds of pounds on many many ancient armies. So perhaps you should look at finding “that“ set of wargame rules that is right for 10mm.
I'm not sure about 10mm competitions, the market share would need to dramatically increase to make that viable I'd think. GW managed it with WM because of their influence and resources.
I suppose the rules side of things throws up a different question, do you find rules you like and then look for the figures, or do you buy nice figures and then find rules to use them with? (This probably deserves it's own thread! ;) )
Quote from: Luddite on 18 January 2012, 11:38:23 PM
Requesting excessive data.
Overlong delivery times (if Pendraken didn't score so hghly on most of my other red lines, the 2-4 week delivery delays would be a step too far).
The excessive data one was something we consciously looked at when designing the new website, and we've hopefully kept it to a reasonable level. Aside from name, address and what you want, there's not much else any company needs.
On delivery times, I don't think we ever get up to 4 weeks, although the postie might take his time... :D This is something we really want to work on this year, and get it down to around 3-7 days maximum. It'll never be next day, we simply don't have the stock level/space to support that, but somewhere close would be nice.
Quote from: Maenoferren on 18 January 2012, 11:52:19 PM
Living where i do, stupid postage rates for living in the ZE post code grrrrrr >:(
To be honest, I've never even registered any price difference when we post stuff to you, it just goes in as UK 1st class with everything else. I'd assume other companies must be using couriers who make that distinction?
You asked, "if you like the product, is there a limit to what you'll stand for?" I guess I might look at it a bit differently.To a certain degree I game mostly in 10mm and 6mm due to what I want to put on the table, which is influenced by price, quality, availability and desire. So a manufacturer or supplier increasing the price doesn't really affect me too much.
I started gaming 30 years ago by collecting 15mm figures. I had figures for ACW, WWII, Napoleonics and a host of other smaller wars. I went with 15mm not only because that's what everyone else I gamed with had but because they were a better value than 25s. I could spend 50% less for a 15mm army than if I bought a 25mm army. Or actually, I could build an army two times larger than I could for the same price of 25s.
I was away from the hobby for a number of years and when I came back I decided to go with 6mm and 10mm as my prefered scale. I decided on this because of the quality of the figures - they're not just lumps of lead as some people say, the ranges cover a number of periods (availability), the price is less than 15mm and because I want to field large armies. I prefer my linear armies to look like a linear army and not a reenactment group.
So 10mm checks all my boxes: affordable (check), quality (check), availability (check), aesthetics (check).
The only time I would think of going to another scale is if there is not something available in 10mm or 6mm. So for instance, the Mexican American War and War of 1812 really interest me. No one makes figures for these periods so if I ever decide to build forces for these periods I will probably have to go to 15s. However, I have so many other projects to complete in 10mm that by the time I decide to start those projects they might be available in 10mm (hint hint).
Tom
Pendraken makes what is needed for the war of 1812. So do Magister Militum, though their Russian range is limited, and Irregular Miniatures, while AIM and Old Glory both do the French. You can fight Borodino all you want to.
I should have explained...
I meant the War of 1812 in North America.
Actually, I could probably find some Napoleonic figures that would substitute for US Regular troops but might have difficulty coming up with suitable figures for the militia.
Yes there are limits e.g. before Xmas I was looking at 15mm Japanese for a skirmish project. Eureka have an excellent range but it would have worked out more than double than anyone else, Skytrex got the order figures may not have been quite as nice but they're still very good and suit my purpose and wallet.
Assuming that I actually want the product in the first place;
1. Cost of the product (against quality and availability from other manufacturers)
2. Postage costs
3. Service
4. Can it wait to the next show I can get to?
Over priced product and high postage/stupid minimum order just lose my money straight away.
For the last 3 or 4 years I have only mail ordered wargames products from 3 sources, private sales on Ebay, Pendraken and Pithead.
Interesting discussion.
My preferences are:
1. Service - Good, friendly service is undoubtedly the key to establishing a loyal customer base. You have to be careful about bending over backwards to satisfy everyone's requirements, however, or things become fragmented. I understand the point about the modellers, but in that situation should new ranges not be withheld until the basic constituents are available as has been referred to earlier?
2. Price - I think this goes hand in hand with quality in the first instance, but it is also a question of what an individual can afford. I started with 28s, moved to 15s and now concentrate on 10s. The quality of each has improved beyond recognition since I started 40 years ago and the current level of quality of 10mm figures is certainly on a par with larger scales. However, I can no longer afford to buy the larger scales in bulk and, why should I try, when 10mm offers me quality at a price I can afford. Price increases are a fact of life no matter what business you are in and sooner or later everyone has to increase prices, but sometimes the size and frequency of such increases are questionable.
3. Postage/shipping - This does annoy me. There are manufacturers who quite clearly have never consulted a postal scale and worked out how much it costs to send packages. It's not rocket science to do this the scales are all weight related. I noticed recently that MM have reduced their charges from £5 to £3.50. Why? Postal rates have not decreased.
I found the earlier comment on rules a little strange. Few if any rules are designed for a single scale and a set normally outlines the changes required to use different scale figures. Even if it doesn't it's an easy thing to do yourself.
Chad
Quote from: Maenoferren on 18 January 2012, 11:52:19 PM
not seeing the product can put me off
Ooohhh...good one.
Yeah this is a show stopper for me, especially online.
No photos, no order - simple.
Pendraken, again, wins me over on this a bit with its other virtues, but there are definately ranges and purchases that i won't make until the pictures are up...
Quote from: Leonit was more interest in the difference between the wargaming market, and the more modern Amazon/eBay instant gratification style of.
Not sure i'd characterise online retailing elsewhere as 'instant gratification'. Generally its definately delayed - especially evilbay where delivery seems typically to be about 5-7 days...
Personally i accept the delay in online shopping as its far more convenient. For wargaming its also pretty much the only option outside of shows.
For me with these things its very much about communication. If i buy something and it says up front 'delivery in 7-10 days', i'm happy as long as it arrives within that time period.
Early Pendraken orders for example were a bit suspicious until i found out your 'cast to order' policy...no problem - now i know.
The rage comes out when it says 'delivery in 7-10 days' and 14 days later you're still waiting. Guaranteed to stop me giving repeat business. Black Tree took the p*** with a 6 month delivery and no answer to my emails...i'd basically forgotten about it and wrote the £30 off. It did eventually arrive but there were 7 miscasts... I'll never order from them again. >:(
Quote from: LeonGW keep banging their prices up, reducing quantities, switching to Finecast, etc.
Now then, in general i'm in quite a lucky position in that prices are generally a secondary factor for me and so i don't consider them a 'red line' when purchasing. However...GW are SO obviously, ridiculously overpriced that i can't remember the last core line product of theirs i bought. I do like their paints though, althought the new cheap pots suck and i've kept my old pots for reuse (pouring the new paint into the old pots)...but seriously, £10.50 for a single Finecast figure is just insane. And the quality really isn't much better than other suppliers out there. They also fail for me on the 'fiddly construction' red line i mentioned above. Fair enough you can make each figure slightly different but i do not want to spend more time glueing the damned things together than actually painting them. And the sprues waste so much plastic/money too. £15 for 10 figures and 60% of what i bought is sprue that gets ditched...
Give me pre-cast figures in 5-6 different poses any day.
So yeah, price is a limiter too, but it needs to be hugely excessive.
Oooh...another one...
Limited range / figure poses. There needs to be a few different poses to give a bit of variety. And if doing a range it needs to be complete so i can source any options i need. (Tricky one on fantasy/sci fi that i suppose!!!)
Is there a limit to what you accept for miniatures you like?
Well yes of course there is.
GW (since you mentioned them) has crossed this limit some time ago (broken gameplay, spiralling powergaming, Failcast, reduction in quality, service and quantity bt raising prices)
Technically everybody gets the chance to p.. me off. But only once and thats it. I can understand delivery may take an extra day or two. If the rest of the package makes up for it, so be it.
As soon as the larger picture starts to detoriate I am reluctant to spend my money.
To get this more to the direct sales/ ebay corner. I do not accept ANY imperfection there. Three people have tried to spoil my day, all three have made a very costly encounter with me.
1. Shoddy castings: Don't mind a bit of flash, but shortened rifles/muskets/swords and no heads or legs can be irritating.
2. Shoddy deliveries: I'm old enough to remember the old '28 days for delivery' on everything. I don't mind waiting but if you are told 5-10 days then it should mean that.
3. Not seeing the product online: Don't mind paying for stuff. But I like to see it first. Funny enough Pendraken are better than a lot of manufacturers on this.
4. Inaccurate figures: Both in pose and uniform. Bought some 15mm ACW Union cavalry once (sight unseen. See point 3) and wished I hadn't. They were horribly proportioned. Their uniforms were not ACW, but later Plains War, and the dismounted figures were not wearing the same uniform as the mounted. Would never consider them again (why would I now I've found Pendraken?).
5. Not answering emails or the phone. Goes under bad customer service
Never had any trouble with Pendraken figures on these issues (apart from 3. But I believe this has been touched on before)
I pretty much agree with everything that's been said so far but must add wildly varying scales and proportions in the same range, most notably with cavalry on diminutive horses - what's that all about ? Charge a few pence more and let the trooper ride a horse not a donkey!
Prices? - if you really want something them you will always pay the price for it. I like the current Pendraken pricing, it's good value for money
Package quantity. Pendraken scores well here. The thirty figure pack is spot on. I'd rather have a couple of spares than have to buy a second pack for the same for the sake of a couple of figures.
Catalogues...it's been said, acknowledged and said again. The on-line web store is supposed to be just that - the equivalent of walking into a shop, being able to see the range and visualizing your army. It's really important to the customer and beneficial to the retailer as customers will nearly always see something in another range with "potential" and add it to their order. Several recent inquiries about wagons illustrates this point. And please no more unillustrated new releases - you'll never catch up with the backlog of unphotographed products if you keep adding to the list. A few more photos of available figures would certainly have me reaching for my debit card!
One final thought on your catalogue, I know I'm drifting off the topic a little, but an eye candy page possibly using some of the excellent pictures in some of the forum members bat-reps would certainly gain you a few more customers when they really see the potential of that wonderful scale that is 10mm
Bob
Quote from: Leon on 19 January 2012, 12:25:00 AM
To be honest, I've never even registered any price difference when we post stuff to you, it just goes in as UK 1st class with everything else. I'd assume other companies must be using couriers who make that distinction?
yep some say they need to use a courier as i live beyond the realms of civilisation, even though shock horror we use the post office up here. I get your stuff no problem :D :D :D :D :D. the ones that really annoy me are the ones that charge the massive mark up and then send it via the post office anyway >:(
Quote from: wargamesbob on 19 January 2012, 09:33:04 PM
One final thought on your catalogue, I know I'm drifting off the topic a little, but an eye candy page possibly using some of the excellent pictures in some of the forum members bat-reps would certainly gain you a few more customers when they really see the potential of that wonderful scale that is 10mm
We've thought about that several times, but the extra space required, plus printing costs for decent colour photo's, have put us off.
Quotethe ones that really annoy me are the ones that charge the massive mark up and then send it via the post office anyway
Hi Maenoferren
That may not be the company's fault. they probably do use the courier but, if their courier has no presence where you are, they take it as far as they can and then the courier company put it on Royal Mail to finish the journey.
LM
Very interesting thread,
I'm now fortunate :-\ that I have reached an age where providing I don't go mad price is not realy an issue except that I don't like being ripped off (I've bought virtually no GW figures).
Once I've decided on a project my criteria for buying figures are do I like the figures and does the manuafcturer have a large enough range to let me field an army without waiting for new releases?
If I don't like the figures I won't buy them (I'm very pick about horses which are generally a lot finer and longer in the body than most ranges) and I won't start a new army if the manufacturer doesn't have a decent range.
I'm not too concerned about delivery times, as I can take delays into account when placing orders and if all else fails chip away at the lead pile.
Quality is probably the most important factor for me, and I am willing to pay a premium for it, although whether that would translate into massively increased revenue for the seller is debatable â€" I have a budget and will spend to that budget, so would rather buy 10 well sculpted and casted figures costing £2.00 each than 20 poorly sculpted and cast figures at £1.00p each, but either way I’m going to spend £20.00. I’m guessing that many people in these economically challenging times (particularly the married ones) will work in a similar manner.
Speed of delivery is not a huge issue as long as I know how long I’m going to have to wait before hand and it’s not more than about 3 weeks. The cost of delivery is though â€" if I feel I’m being ripped off I’ll cancel the order (Wargames Foundry, I’m looking at you…)
Pictures on the website â€" I would never buy anything unless I’d seen it in the flesh or seen a picture of it. I would never have bought into 10mm in the first place if I hadn’t seen Clibanarium’s pictures of the AWI range on various forums (should that be fora?) If a colour catalogue is expensive to produce, why not offer it as a PDF download, or make a small charge for it at shows? A picture tells a thousand words (to use a cliché) and I genuinely don’t think many gamers know how good Pendraken stuff is â€" some of the pictures I’ve seen on this forum will certainly show them!
I would echo several of comments made above.
Quality first, then quantity and value for my money. 8)
But really, the webstore needs more pics. Color ones would be nice, but I'll settle for bit of black wash on bare metal if that is all the company has time for.
Quote from: Leveller Mutineer on 20 January 2012, 10:32:46 AM
Hi Maenoferren
That may not be the company's fault. they probably do use the courier but, if their courier has no presence where you are, they take it as far as they can and then the courier company put it on Royal Mail to finish the journey.
LM
still annoying though :D :D :D
For me it's price and quality rapidly followed by completeness of range. I was buying ABs for a project and was happy to pay a bit more for the higher quality but now the price has gone too far and I found good quality figures much cheaper so I've switched.
Regarding Pendraken, although I understand why,there are some ranges (Naps and LoA) that I won't really buy until complete. The LoA range is exceptional but at infantry only I can't get started yet :(
Cheers,
Andy
As Pendraken in about 90%+ of my figures spend, I have to wonder what you're about to do Leon...
:d :'(
The things I look for in a wargame company roughly in order.
1 Relatively complete range. I don't mind getting a few bits from another manufacturer, but I want to be able to get most of it from the same place
2 Good Quality Figures/Models. Nice casting that are consistent in scale across the range (particularly vehicles).
3 Good customer service. This includes keeping to delivery times, or letting me know if there is a delay. The ability to ask a favor to tweak an order on the odd occasion.
4 Price. I am happy to pay a premium for the above three. I want the manufacturer to still be there when I want more figures and if paying slightly more so the business is more financially viable then I am happy to do this ( I don't think there are many wargame manufactures that have got rich from selling wargames stuff.)
Personally I think the guys at Pendraken easily meet all of the above requirements. They are also some of the cheapest 10mm figures around.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 21 January 2012, 10:50:57 AM
As Pendraken in about 90%+ of my figures spend, I have to wonder what you're about to do Leon...
:d :'(
:D
Nothing at all, as I said earlier, this was nothing to do with Pendraken-y stuff, I was just curious about how different the wargames market is to others in what we expect from the people we buy from.
Quote from: Leon on 18 January 2012, 07:42:42 PM
(PS, I know that we need more pics on the website, people in glass houses and all... :D )
EEHEHEHEHHEHEH :d
For me, it's quality of figures, completeness of range, and service. I am also one of the lucky few to have reached an age when my hobby outlay does not involve decisions between Brunswickers and breakfast, so price is less important and, as JafO says, I want the manufacturer to still be there when I come back next year. That does not mean I am so easy going as to enjoy being ripped off, but I'll pay a good price for a good product. After all it's cheaper than golf. But service really matters to me, and that is not measured in days a delivery takes (talking of which Leon, how is that order coming on?) to arrive. It is being willing to talk, treating me like a human being and not the obsessed idiot I am, and trying hard to give me exactly what I want. One of the things I like about the hobby is the opportunity to do business with lots of nice people, on both sides of the Atlantic. But good luck trying to put together a business model!
Mollinary
Quote from: Leon on 21 January 2012, 09:40:01 PM
:D
Nothing at all, as I said earlier, this was nothing to do with Pendraken-y stuff, I was just curious about how different the wargames market is to others in what we expect from the people we buy from.
Well its different Leon, in that its an entirely 'niche luxury' market, that is still, outside of the big high street Goliath, essentially a sort of amateur 'Heath Robinson' sort of affair.
Gentlemen making toys of other gentlemen...
Therefore the typical expectations don't really apply.
If I order the weekly shop from Tesco (or other supermarket), i don't email Tesco's CEO to put in the order, but ask to tweak the number of custard tarts in the pack, and then expect the order to arrive some time in the next 7-10 days depending on when he can get the bread baked...
Its a tedious neccessity, run by a facelss corporation and i want it all done efficiently, impersonally, and with the minimum fuss. I also want top quality at rock bottom prices.
For my toys, its a much different arrangement.
Most of the suppliers (like Pendraken), are 'chaps like me'. I'm buying recreationaly toys from people i am likely to know well, and who i know aren't a multinational corporate concern. I apprecate things like personal service, quality of merchandise, etc.
So, its a very different commercial arrangement than in other walks of life.
Quote from: Chad on 19 January 2012, 10:22:23 AM
I found the earlier comment on rules a little strange. Few if any rules are designed for a single scale and a set normally outlines the changes required to use different scale figures. Even if it doesn't it's an easy thing to do yourself.
I’ve been meaning to get back to this for a while.
Currently most rules seem to be written for 6mm, 15/18mm or 25/28mm. If 10mm is mentioned it tends to be as an alternative to 15mm where you can put one or two more figures on a base.
It seems to me this makes 10mm the poor relation to 15mm and while competitions and rules continue to be run/written as they are it cannot progress further as a scale.
I think the virtues of 10mm are:
• Quality â€" the latest additions are very nearly on a par detail wise to 15mm so can be painted as very attractive figures in there own right.
• Mass effect â€" more figures can be fixed to a base in multiple ranks to give a feeling of mass to units.
• Cost â€" the current cost of buying 15 and 25mm armies is very high while painting speed for me is the biggest restriction for me in 10mm. This is very important for the younger members of the hobby where cost can be paramount.
• Scale â€" this is an area where 10mm does not but should score. Originally when 15mm came out one of its key qualities was you could have a scaled battlefield twice as large as its bases were half the size of 25mm. This advantage has become eroded with scale creep to 18mm so the scale comparison is now only 2/3s. I.e. 60mm base for 25mm to 40mm base size for 15mm. 10mm rules could use the old 15mm standard and be half the size of 25mm giving and advantage over 15s and 25s in scaled battlefield size and still be able to provide extra figure to satisfy the mass appearance.
Rules designed for 10mm I think should:
• Take advantage of its scale to give larger scaled battlefields.
• Allow larger battles to be fought in the same timescales as currently the case with 15/25mm rules. (If you simply use more units they become very long games so you need a different approach)
• Not have individual figure or base removal as a method of showing unit losses.
• Allow corps and army sized battles as normal games.
Cheers, Rob :)
Incidentally GW have now officially completely lost the plot, charging £15-20 for a SINGLE FIGURE (Failcast).
One figure...
>:( :o :-t L-)
Seriously...that's just insane.
I can't believe anyone is actually buying at that price.
Surely little Johnny munchkin's mum & dad have hit the point of 'no dear, put it back on the shelf'?
And the thing about Failcast is it's now unavoidable. They are only releasing resin versions of some models, even back catalogue stuff...
I seriously hope the rest of the 'big players' aren't planning to follow this route...otherwise we'll be back to Prince August style home casting...
Black Scorpion have moved to resin too... :'(
Absolute fecking nonsense.
(mind you, I used to love casting my Prince August figures when I was 11 :D )
Quote from: Luddite on 01 March 2012, 10:39:51 AM
I can't believe anyone is actually buying at that price.
Surely little Johnny munchkin's mum & dad have hit the point of 'no dear, put it back on the shelf'?
Just had a look on the GW site and saw,
QuoteDue to high demand, each Citadel Finecast product is limited to five (5) per customer.
Where are these people? I've got some sea front property in Birmingham I want to sell.
I don't get this 10mm specific rule thing.
Any set of rules can work for any scale figures. Just amended the distances and base sizes. That's it. Done it loads of times. The mechanics are just the same they don't change.
Some rules use figure removal, if you like those base accordingly. I hate them personally so base accordingly for the type of rules I like.
I am missing something?
Cudders
For me :
1 : Quality and range
2 : Price and service
If post is too high I just avoid.
If service is crap I don't go back.
Cudders
Greetings
"if you like the product, is there a limit to what you'll stand for?"
Absolutely.
0. To like the product I usually have to be able to see it first i.e. photos or in the metal or have it recommended by someone I trust. If it's not too expensive I might take the chance.
1. Perceived poor value for money can often tip the balance even if the product is good. So Battlefront is not getting much of my money in 15mm in 2012 while PSC will be.
2. Total cost to buy in. I try to keep to an annual hobby budget which means highly priced items are less likely to be purchased. Pendraken are really good here as I can build/upgrade forces at a very reasonable price, while cost of forming a League of Augsberg 28mm force.
3. Poor service - delays without warning, repeated lack of communication, failing to fix problems etc. I've been pretty lucky here to date.
4. Not liking the trader as an individual. Wierd I know but I've walked away from a couple of trade stands without buying relatively nice stuff because of this. It's my hobby and I prefer to spend my money on people I like (or at least am neutral on).
5. Lack of ability to get compatible items to complete a force. It doesn't have to be available immediately but I need to be pretty sure that either the manufacturer will produce it or I can get something compatible somewhere else. If a manufacturer regularly fails to complete a range with the basics I an unlikely to risk it again.
Regards
Edward
1) I wont pay over the odds for figures regardless of quality. I'll step the quality down a notch rather than pay excessively from a figure manufacturer who thinks it's a petrol or energy company.
2) I like a complete line but if I can complete an army from two compatible manufacturers at comparable cost, I will.
3) I like to see what I am ordering on line. If there aren't photos I generally wont buy from them. I have waived this rule with Pendraken and Liberation in the past but will generally buy at shows anyway.
4) Delivery times dont worry me as much as I don't buy much on line but if the delivery times stated are adhered to, I don't have a problem.
Cheers
Gerard
I found my Prince August moulds last year, in the back of a cupboard at my mums.