During the planning of the final Russian assault on Berlin in April 1945 Marshall Zhukov used a sandbox-like setup to instruct his commanders about their tasks and targets. In the documentary Hitler's Last Army (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XagP337YuQo&feature=related) the sandbox is shown in several shots, no doubt taken from a Soviet newsreel. To my amazement it looks a bit like a 10' square wargaming table.
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1912/operationberlin1.png)
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/751/operationberlin2.png)
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/7484/operationberlin3.png)
Does anybody here know anything about this sandbox? Was this a regular feature of Soviet operational briefings?
Cheers,
Aart
The Sand box was a regular item in O Groups with the British army staff since at least WW2 and I have photos of the US using it in Korea. In Cold War set piece defence scanarios such as Berlin and Gibraltar, large scale models were built of paper mache and used in both deployment planning and briefings. In my own experience I have seen ad hoc O group briefings using ponchos padded in the right places to depict hills with roads and rivers and RED and BLUE in appropriate tape.
I cannot comment on Red Army and post Soviet practice, but its a safe bet such a cheap useful tool is still in issue.
Sunray out
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1912/operationberlin1.png)
"Comrades- the assault will be proceeded at 0400 hrs with preparatory strikes by Strumovik squandrons ... pardon me a moment....
..EEEYOOWWWER -DA-DA-DA-DA-DA-DA WEEEEEEEEOOOOWWW.. KERPRROWW!
Then at 0430 hrs..."
Which one's Leon ?
Cheers - Phil.
Modelmakers used to be a exempt from military service because they made models such as these in WWII. I know they had one set up for the Pegasus Bridge op (IIRC) so that certain officers could freely look at it to acquint themselves with the terrain.
Quote from: Techno on 02 December 2011, 06:03:06 AM
Which one's Leon ?
Cheers - Phil.
He's at the back in the second picture, but you can't see him because the table is too crowded. Must be a popular new ruleset or something.
Quote from: OldenBUA on 02 December 2011, 08:07:02 AM
He's at the back in the second picture, but you can't see him because the table is too crowded. Must be a popular new ruleset or something.
Leon is the one in the top right corner holding the dice. As Stalin used to say: 'Trust is good, but control is better.' 8)
Cheers,
Aart
Hold the presses. Leon has just been shot on Zhukov's orders after he threw a double 1. As Stalin used to say: ' Certainty is good, but dead certainty is better.' :P
Cheers,
Aart
Quote from: Aart Brouwer on 02 December 2011, 10:22:55 AM
Hold the presses. Leon has just been shot on Zhukov's orders after he threw a double 1. As Stalin used to say: ' Certainty is good, but dead certainty is better.' :P
Ah dammit, that's gonna cause some problems... :P
Quote from: Leon on 02 December 2011, 01:18:02 PM
Ah dammit, that's gonna cause some problems... :P
Now Aart, see what you've done. Looks like someone's not going to make the 'WW2 Russian Front Special Characters Pack'. :'(
Quote from: Steve J on 02 December 2011, 07:56:05 AM
Modelmakers used to be a exempt from military service because they made models such as these in WWII. I know they had one set up for the Pegasus Bridge op (IIRC) so that certain officers could freely look at it to acquint themselves with the terrain.
There are several permant models made for the British airbornes forces (including Pegasus bridge) at the IWM Duxford. And seeing them did makeme want to get some tanks and dice out!
Quote from: fred12df on 02 December 2011, 05:29:09 PM
There are several permant models made for the British airbornes forces (including Pegasus bridge) at the IWM Duxford. And seeing them did makeme want to get some tanks and dice out!
Well there you go. It's nice to see you guys listinga various examples of the actual use of wargamesque tables in the military. I believe even Alexander used a sandbox to brief his commanders on the eve of battle. Makes me want to get out my elephants. :o 8)
Cheers,
Aart
I'm not surprised at the similarity.
The Wargames hobby as we know it kind of grew out of things like Kriegspeil which was used as an instructional tool for staff officers.
There is even a whole chapter on the use of the "sand box" in the home guard manuals that have been reprinted in recent years.
Found two 1943 colour pics on the Web, copied from the files of the Library of Congress. Scale looks ideal for 2mm.
The caption said:
QuoteCollins, Marjory, 1912-1985, photographer
Camouflage class in New York University, where men and women are preparing for jobs in the Army or in industry, New York, N.Y. They make models from aerial photographs, re-photograph them, then work out a camouflage scheme and make a final photograph. 1943 March
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/247/camoclass1.jpg)
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3117/camoclass2.jpg)
Cheers,
Aart
Lovely models and would work great for 2-3mm.
The main drawback with sand-tables is the fact that sand is abrasive. I've seen the results of regular use of nicely painted figures on sand. Not pretty! :(
I recall reading somewhere that Cake Decorators were called to service in Britain during WW2 because they had the necessary model making skills for this kind of thing. I can't recall the source and I don't know if it's true or not.
Dave Turner
how do you move the stuff in the middle????
jon
lovely and very informative, saw it and my firt though was the above.
Quote from: hamsterking on 19 December 2011, 05:12:27 AM
I recall reading somewhere that Cake Decorators were called to service in Britain during WW2 because they had the necessary model making skills for this kind of thing. I can't recall the source and I don't know if it's true or not.
Dave Turner
Cake decorators ?....Bloody amateurs....Like to see
them make a 10mm figure or terrain out of
icing sugar. ;D ;D.....Wouldn't survive a vulcanising press either !
(It's too near Christmas....I'm losing it !)
Cheers - Phil