I'm re-reading "Battlefield Britain" at the moment & have just enjoyed the Culloden chapter: has anyone gamed this one - or indeed Prestonpans?
I think this conflict would be a real spectacle on-table & am seriously considering doing it...but must admit that I know very little about this (beyond what I've just read)...if anyone's got OOBs or suggestions of how to game this - and pics too - that'd be great 8)
@Leon: any chance of some Jacobite pics at some point?
Yeah, no bother, I think I've got all the codes in my spares trays.
I think the campaign would be a good idea - see if the Jocks can get any further south than Preston (I think that was the limit if their exploitation). The Warmaster rules (or a variant of) would do very well as it is worth gaming at unit/battalion/clan level.
Culloden was a bit of a disaster for the Bonnie Prince due to his CV being probably about 7, all the Jocks using initiative move only and the Brit/German Army simply being able to outshoot them with arty and muskets. There was some hand to hand, but by then it was a foregone conclusion. Maybe some chance for heros to play in the game aka Battle of Five Armies Style. Michael Caine made a good Jock in a 1971 film: Kidnapped. http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B000LXH3CY/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Any reconstruction could centre around who can get the Jocks the furthest across the battlefield - a good participation battle. How about this for Legionary 2011? ;D
British Army at Culloden according to a very old list I found in the loft about 10 minutes ago....
Infantry
1st Royals 400 Foot
3rd Howard's 400 Foot
4th Barrels's 400 Foot
8th Wolfe's 400 Foot
13th Pulteney's 400 Foot
14th Price's 400 Foot
20th Bligh's 400 Foot
21st Campbell's 400 Foot
25th Semphill's 400 Foot
27th Blakeney's 400 Foot
34th Cholmondeley's 400 Foot
36th Fleming's 400 Foot
37th Munro's 400 Foot
48th Conway's 400 Foot
62nd Battereau's 400 Foot
64th London Argyll Militia 400 Foot
Cavalry
Cobham's Dragoons 800
Lord Mark Kerr's Dragonns 800
Kingston Horse 800
Artillery
10 x 3pdrs
And here is the Bonnie Prince Jock McSporran moving targets at Culloden:
Infantry (Most are Highlanders with Broadsword, target, dirk and maybe a musket ... tired, hungry, ginger and a bit cross)
Atholl - 500
Camerons - 700
Stewarts of Appin - 300
Fraser - 300
Chattan - 500
Farquarson - 400
Mixed Clans - 200
Roy Stewarts - 200
Macdonlads: Clandranalds - 300
Keppoch - 200
Gelngarry - 500
Irish/French - 175 (Ex French Army Regulars) (Disciplined smoothbore muskets)
Scots Royals - 300 (Ex French Army Regulars) (Disciplined smoothbore muskets)
Perth - 200
Glenbucket - 200
1/Lord Louis Gordon - 200
2/Lord Louis Gordon - 200
1/Ogilvy Angus - 200
2/Ogilvy Angus - 200
Cavalry
Dismounted - 200
Mounted - 180
Artillery
4 light guns - probably 3 pdrs, but poorly manned and with little ammo
Note that most early battles the Government Forces were surprised and did not know how to deal with the Highland charges. Once the Jocks had gone as far south as they could they lost spirit and started a retreat (wrong answer but there you go!). The Brits/Germans then managed to re-org and re-train and the Duke of Cumberland led a disciplined, well fed and well supplied army up into the Highlands. The rest makes for a good documentary or display on the table top.
Nik - Tartan in 2mm? :o
Nah - I reckon it'll be more impressive in 10mm - although 2mm would be a nice challenge, eh? ;)
Thanks for all the info Dave - really appreciated; I'll be thinking of a WMA variant for this for certain [I'm pretty sure there's a decent Marlburian one which would be a good startpoint] - I'll also look to do the whole campaign as I think you're effectively looking at 3 battles: Prestonpans, Falkirk & Culloden. I like your thinking re CVs etc as well
@Leon: thanks mate, appreciated whenever you get a chance (no mad panic on this at all)
I clearly read your posts quickly to start with Dave - I've just re-read & enjoyed your turn-of-phrase here ;D
I think it'd be *great* to do Bonnie Prince Jock McSporran's moving targets at Legionary next year - or, if I can get my skates on, it could be seen at Nikfest in December 8)
Oh - and painting them as "tired, hungry, ginger and a bit cross" will be fun!
Will the person playing Bonnie Charlie have to speak in French the whole game so no one can understand his orders?
Nik,
Frank Chadwick did an excellent Jacobite supplement for Volley and Bayonet some years back. As well as period specific rules changes it had scenarios for all the battles, with historical notes and OOBs. Perhaps it might be worth hunting for a copy?
Andrew
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mcnelly/vb/index/index_scenario_18th.htm
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mcnelly/vb/index/index_publications.htm
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=188771
I've just mentioned our Culloden chat to Mr Z:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=419.0
D
Fab idea Nick! Ive been to Culloden a few times now (obviously to gloat at the Jockonease) I think it would make for a great game - all the various Clans etc - and Im sure a few of the Ginger maniacs wore period military clothing too - ie tricorns/blue coats - and the Scotish horse (Royal Ecosse?)- wore some form of short bearskin type grenadier headress) Also a bit of Scot on Scot action as Im sure the 1st Regt (Goverment forces) were the Royal Scots?. Im sure Ive a book somewher with a few uniform details so ill get back to you with more detail. :)
Hello,
Thank you Dave Fielder for directing me here.
Yes I am also interested in Jacobite Rebellion period. In truth I have a very ambitious plan to have
armies for every theatre of British operation during SYW.
I already have huge collection of painted Pendraken armies of European SYW western theatre.
I have American theatre under way,too. My next goals are Jacobite Rebellion and Clive's India campaign.
I use Sam Mustafa's Might and Reason rules which are very nice but rather big scale oriented.
I would not want to rebase my units. I am thinking of modifying the set and scaling it down a bit.
My question about Royal Ecosse JS1 figures in the other thread was provoked by discrepancies of the information icluded
in Osprey books. In Culloden (Campaign) volume Roal Ecosse privates are pictures in tricorns and French coats with turnbacks.
In the same time in Jacobite Armies (Warrior) volume they are pictured in short coat and bonnet only.
I wonder which option Pendraken figures are.
They're in short coat and bonnet, I'll get some pics up soon. For the other type, just use the regular SYW French troops.
Excellent - thanks!
Is it just me & my weak Google-fu tonight or is it stupidly hard to find the V&B supplements to buy online?! Anyone got a direct link they can bang here?
Nik,
I couldn't find anywhere in UK that stocks them, although they often appear at shows. Old Glory 25s in the US have them on their website, however.
Andrew
Thanks Andrew - I'll keep an eye out...
I picked up the volley and bayonet Jacobite two supplement set from old glory at partisan last year. It's an invaluable reference. I'm planning to do the campaign but giving a 'what if' option for more French involvement. The pendraken figures are excellent. All I have to do is actually paint them! I am planning to use principles of war rules.
Here you go:
JS1 - Royal Ecosse:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2745/4534591155_423231c0bb.jpg)
JS2 - Humbly's Lochaber axe/musket:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4535237522_16fcbe913c.jpg)
JS3 - Baggot's Hussar, carbine:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2761/4535234672_8acbf22761.jpg)
JS4 - Highlander, sword and targe:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4535241294_2fbe6489fc.jpg)
JS5 - Highlander, musket:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4534611349_2f3d447942.jpg)
JS6 - Lowlander, musket:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4007/4534614661_83e7266f91.jpg)
Wow!!!
Leon, many thanks!
These are really lovely. They are my next order for sure! :)
Likewise - top-notch 8)
'specially now I've worked out how I'm going to do the whole campaign...if anyone's interested, shout & I'll bang my lists here
"SHOUT"
Cor - finally ;) I thought no-one was interested....
This is what I think - for each of the battles:
Prestonpans
English:
General + 4 Commands
7 x Infantry
4 x Cavalry
2 x Guns
Jacobite:
General + 3 Commands
14 x Infantry
Falkirk
English:
General + 3 Commands
14 x Infantry
3 x Cavalry
Jacobite:
General + 3 Commands
18 x Infantry
1 x Cavalry
Culloden
English:
General + 5 Commands
17 x Infantry
4 x Cavalry
7 x Guns
Jacobite:
General + 4 Commands
14 x Infantry
1 x Cavalry
2 x Guns
Right - in an ideal world, with a stupidly-big table, I'd do the above: basing for WM variant so 30 figs / unit [3 stands / unit]
What I'm actually going to do is roughly halve it & have enough commanders & units to fight all the battles - which looks like this:
Prestonpans:
English: Gen + 2 cmds; 4 x infantry; 2 x cavalry; 1 x guns
Jacobite: Gen + 2 cmds; 7 x infantry
Falkirk:
English:Gen + 2 cmds; 7 x infantry; 2 x cavalry
Jacobite: Gen + 2 cmds; 9 x infantry; 1 x cavalry
Culloden:
English: Gen + 3 cmds; 9 x infantry; 2 x cavalry; 4 x guns
Jacobite: Gen + 2 cmds; 7 x infantry; 1 x cavalry; 1 x gun
Armies & PD order:
English:
General + 3 Commands [various codes]
9 x Infantry: 6 Line, 2 Scots, 1 Grenadier: 3 x SYB 1, 4 x SYB 5, 1 x SYB 6, 1 x SYB 14
2 x Cavalry: Dragoons: 2 x SYB 23
4 x Guns: 2 x SYB11
Jacobite:
General + 2 Commands [various codes]
9 x Infantry: 6 Highlanders, 2 Lowlanders, 1 Royal Ecosse: 1 x JS1, 1 x JS2, 1 x JS4, 3 x JS5, 2 x JS6, 2 x JS7
1 x Cavalry: Baggot's Hussars: 1 x JS3
1 x Gun: 1 x SYF 11
Whaddya think?!
All of which means, of course, that you can do the entire campaign for about £80 [once you've decided on a few extras for commands etc]...
Compare that with a 2000 pt Space Marine army :o :P 8)
What would the price be in 2mm :P
Looks very workable and a good price for the whole set. They would mesh nicely with other "Tricorn" period armies in those "What if" games that can be generated. Imagine if a Ginger-Jockinese Army appeared at Minden or Rossbach? :o
QuoteWhat would the price be in 2mm
Hehehe - probably about £30 or so...I really don't want to paint 2mm tartan & ginger hair though :P
QuoteImagine if a Ginger-Jockinese Army appeared at Minden or Rossbach?
Nice Dave, nice... 8)
You'll have to get all that SYW stuff painted up first!
:D You're too sensible...when did any wargamer worth his/her salt let the current project get in the way of the next project, eh? :P
Quote from: nikharwood on 26 April 2010, 07:39:42 PM
:D You're too sensible...when did any wargamer worth his/her salt let the current project get in the way of the next project, eh? :P
True, and Pendraken definitely appreciates it!
I've already ordered my next Pendraken project (Gauls) but what shall I do after that is half-finished? ???
Quote from: Dave Fielder on 27 April 2010, 02:35:42 PM
I've already ordered my next Pendraken project (Gauls) but what shall I do after that is half-finished? ???
We might have some lovely Marines and Japanese by then...
"Lovely Marines" .... I like this concept.
Quote from: Dave Fielder on 27 April 2010, 10:40:35 PM
"Lovely Marines" .... I like this concept.
They shout 'Boo!' before shooting you, they're nice like that you see...
I usually shout "boo" afterwards! But then I'm not USMC! ... How did the Culloden thread end up in the Pacific Theatre BTW?
Quote from: Dave Fielder on 28 April 2010, 10:21:25 AM
I usually shout "boo" afterwards! But then I'm not USMC! ... How did the Culloden thread end up in the Pacific Theatre BTW?
:D
Greetings
I must find my copy of 'Like Hungry Wolves'. Now I've got SYW Western Germany on the horizon I'll need at least some British at some point so Culloden wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility - or an alternate action involving some of the German forces deployed in 1746.
Regards
Edward
There was a French plan for a full scale invasion of England during the SYW. If you allow that to work, throwing in one last rising of the clans is hardly out of the picture.
...all of which is virtually guaranteeing that I'll end up doing this once I've got my SCW done...thanks fellas :P ;D