OK so we've probably seen most of them time and time again but doesn't it get on your t*ts when they go OTT or are just simply crap. So lets have your favourit crap historical war films of all time: For me Braveheart and Patriot (Is Mel Gibson a common feature here?) better things get flushed down the drain. Over to you....
Haha, I'm not surprised to see Braveheart come up straight away!
It's not a film, but the cannon balls exploding in the Sharpe's series winds me right up.
Anythign with Mel Gibson in it- Anti British - cant stand the moron.....
I'll agree. Mel Gibson's Patriot and Braveheart films are appauling...and dangerous propaganda actually.
Now then. Worst historical film? Difficult to say, but here are a few contenders...
Zulu. One of the best action/war films ever made, but utterly wrong on almost every point as a historical film.
Gladiator. Terrible portrayal of the historical aspects of the Roman army, Roman politics and society, and indeed of Gladiators.
Pearl Harbour. Not just one of the worst historical movies, one of the worst movies ever...full stop.
Savng Private Ryan. Dreadfully innacurate portrayal of pretty much everything about D-Day and D-Day+. Not talking about the basic plot of the film here, but all the dressing and peripherals...
That said realism of the protrayal of combat is apparently pretty close.
Which is the worst? Actually i'll go with any film that reinvents history, so i'll plump for
U571. An absolutely disgraceful example of the reinvention of history WWII which Hollywood movies perpetrate on the world. >:(
QuoteIt's not a film, but the cannon balls exploding in the Sharpe's series winds me right up.
Yeah me too. I guess its easier to film a bit of pyrotechnics than a bouncing solid ball of iron. Plus the effect of those balls would make Sharpe an 18R rated programme eh?
...however, there was explosive shot used in the period as i understand...
Battle of the Bulge -- At least they could have filmed it somewhere with snow and trees! The snow might have covered the truly awful plot!
Damn beaten to it by a legion of fellow Gibson haters !
The Patriot is shocling , truly truly dismal.
QuoteYeah me too. I guess its easier to film a bit of pyrotechnics than a bouncing solid ball of iron. Plus the effect of those balls would make Sharpe an 18R rated programme eh?
...however, there was explosive shot used in the period as i understand
It was shell, basically a hollow ball filled with gunpowder and with a bit of slow fuse sticking out but it was only used by mortars and howitzers, not field artillery. The British had a version which included musket balls in the shell, the first shrapnel shell.
As for bad films, what about Alexander?
I agree with you all, but don't forget Spartacus. That must get in, if only for the waste of an expert director.
Which one? I quite enjoyed the modern one...
saving Private ryan is as far a steh sight and sound of battle is scarily close, the sound of bullets impacting into bodies( the bit were the Sdkfz 251/1 gets taken out by bazooka and Tom hanks guns down the crew), not to mention the opening sequence. After that its crap.
Most War films are ruined by the Hollywood effect.
I vote for Pearl Harbour, it's definitely one of the worst films I've paid cold hard cash to see. Mangled history meets mawkish romance. How close to historically accurate is it? As Bluto says in Animal House "was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?"
Quote from: dicehead on 24 April 2010, 01:58:17 PM
I vote for Pearl Harbour, it's definitely one of the worst films I've paid cold hard cash to see. Mangled history meets mawkish romance. How close to historically accurate is it? As Bluto says in Animal House "was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?"
I do not know if it is the worst movie, but for sure more bore!... mmm maybe is in the "low" 10 listed (for me)
They can film cannon shot well - the M*& G%#*%n film Patriot had great effects for both shot and shell as did Sharpe on one of the sieges,
well the worst war film ever - Angel in Green (1987). I worked on this and most of us changed our names in the credits because it was bad and for tax reasons.
It got 9 stars on the Technical Goof rating in IMDb. I would not be surprised if no one has this as it was classy production that went "direct to video" in most countries.
Quote from: privateer on 03 May 2010, 04:12:26 AM
They can film cannon shot well - the M*& G%#*%n film Patriot had great effects for both shot and shell as did Sharpe on one of the sieges,
well the worst war film ever - Angel in Green (1987). I worked on this and most of us changed our names in the credits because it was bad and for tax reasons.
It got 9 stars on the Technical Goof rating in IMDb. I would not be surprised if no one has this as it was classy production that went "direct to video" in most countries.
A movie-maker in our midst! :o :D
Probably have to go with Sharpe, though I do like the series enough to own the DVD set.
I sometimes have to suppress a few belly laughs when I see half a dozen men trying desperately to look like a proper company; a marching column advancing on their enemy comprising less men than you`d find in a football team kinda loses the sense of suspension of disbelief for me.
.... those exploding cannon balls do add comic relief don`t they :-\ A few bouncing balls would have been nice to see.
Steve.
Just watched Robin Hood 2 days ago. The only reason I wouldn't put it on this list is that Mel Gibson isn't in it....
But... Seriously... The landing craft?? Using horses as expedient battering rams? Never mind the plot....
I've never seen this one!
I'm considering going to see the new one.
Sharpe always got on my nerves, as it was basically 1950's WW2 cinema transported back 150 years; plucky Brits vs incompetent dastardly enemies. Fine if you like the "Boy's own" school of film making, but it just seems too cartoonish. (I'll allow the exception of the line-v-column at the end of the first series, it was pretty well done)
Strangely I am quite content with that approach in 1950's WW2 films. An odd side effect of these films on me as a naive child was that my sympathies lay usually with the Germans, I thought it wasn't fair that they got machine gunned by the dozen. Obviously this was before I learned what they had been up to.
I am not that interested in WW2, but films where they use inappropriate vehicles painted grey or green really get on my nerves; Battle of the Bulge (many other problems too) and Patton (otherwise good).
The Patriot I find the battles quite enjoyable, especially the little "Elizabethtown" snippet. Otherwise I hate the film with a passion. If you only get one big budget AWI film per century these idiots blew it six months into the 21st.
We should all says our prayers that HBO make 1776 in the next few years.
For an absolutely god-awful unwatchable film try Red Zone Cuba for the Bay of Pigs. The MST3k version is a hoot, don't try to watch it straight. And its not even Coleman Francis' worst film.
Quote from: Derk G on 15 May 2010, 11:11:35 AM
Just watched Robin Hood 2 days ago. The only reason I wouldn't put it on this list is that Mel Gibson isn't in it....
But... Seriously... The landing craft?? Using horses as expedient battering rams? Never mind the plot....
Never mind the landing craft, you call that a Yorkshire accent?
Quote from: clibinarium on 16 May 2010, 11:13:04 PM
[] If you only get one big budget AWI film per century these idiots blew it six months into the 21st.
We should all says our prayers that HBO make 1776 in the next few years.
One of the problems with AWI films i guess is getting major US studios to accept a script which is anything other than a stereotypical Americans = heroes, Brits=villains. There is so much (understandable) mythology around the war that it would be quite a commercial risk to make a film that tried to debunk it. Having said that the recent series on John Adams was pretty well done (although pretty light on military action)
I'll buck the trend here and go for 'Cromwell'.
Richard Harris earns his fee by turning up everywhere where Cromwell didn't.
He wasn't one of the five who were in danger of arrest in the House of Commons. He didn't lead major formations of troops at Edgehill. He was still only a Captain of Horse and turned up, only at the very end of the battle. He never led the New Model Army until the Second Civil War (Fairfax was the Lord General).
Other 'good' mistakes are,
The House of Commons and Lords sitting in the same chamber.
At Edgehill, the Royalists are seen wearing smart uniforms and the Parliamentarians ordinary plain, drab clothes. In fact it was the other way around as Parliament was the side with all the money. The flags should be of the same design also. Some Parliamentarian infantry flags are actually cavalry standards (go on, get a copy and try and spot them).
On the subject of uniforms, the New Model Army manages to NOT wear red.
Exploding shells. You lot complain about Napoleonic artillery shells, what about the 17th century ones. ::)
Parliament was not outnumbered 2-1 at Naseby. They outnumbered the Royalists.
There was no stone wall at Naseby.
At Naseby (again) Prince Rupert still has his poodle 'Boy'. Not bad considering he was killed at Marston Moor (the very important, unmentioned battle).
John Pym postpones his death until after Naseby (he died in 1643).
Cromwell's son (also called Oliver) died of typhoid fever, not at Naseby.
I could go on, I want to give a mention to the little known ECW film 'To Kill a King'. A complete cowpat of a movie. I know most films portray Cromwell as a well spoken man and not at all sounding like anyone else from East Anglia, but he's portrayed here (by Tim Roth) as a kind of embittered cockney dwarf.
There is so much wrong with this movie. In fact, thinking about it This is ten times worse as Cromwell.
Worst Historical Film - To Kill a King
Made even worse in that it's a modern (2003) British film about a very British subject. >:(
Quote from: Leveller Mutineer on 28 May 2010, 09:09:45 AM
I'll buck the trend here and go for 'Cromwell'.
Richard Harris earns his fee by turning up everywhere where Cromwell didn't.
He wasn't one of the five who were in danger of arrest in the House of Commons. He didn't lead major formations of troops at Edgehill. He was still only a Captain of Horse and turned up, only at the very end of the battle. He never led the New Model Army until the Second Civil War (Fairfax was the Lord General).
Other 'good' mistakes are,
The House of Commons and Lords sitting in the same chamber.
At Edgehill, the Royalists are seen wearing smart uniforms and the Parliamentarians ordinary plain, drab clothes. In fact it was the other way around as Parliament was the side with all the money. The flags should be of the same design also. Some Parliamentarian infantry flags are actually cavalry standards (go on, get a copy and try and spot them).
On the subject of uniforms, the New Model Army manages to NOT wear red.
Exploding shells. You lot complain about Napoleonic artillery shells, what about the 17th century ones. ::)
Parliament was not outnumbered 2-1 at Naseby. They outnumbered the Royalists.
There was no stone wall at Naseby.
At Naseby (again) Prince Rupert still has his poodle 'Boy'. Not bad considering he was killed at Marston Moor (the very important, unmentioned battle).
John Pym postpones his death until after Naseby (he died in 1643).
Cromwell's son (also called Oliver) died of typhoid fever, not at Naseby.
I could go on, I want to give a mention to the little known ECW film 'To Kill a King'. A complete cowpat of a movie. I know most films portray Cromwell as a well spoken man and not at all sounding like anyone else from East Anglia, but he's portrayed here (by Tim Roth) as a kind of embittered cockney dwarf.
There is so much wrong with this movie. In fact, thinking about it This is ten times worse as Cromwell.
Worst Historical Film - To Kill a King
Made even worse in that it's a modern (2003) British film about a very British subject. >:(
:D
Just looked at the trailer [here if you're interested:
Visually, it looks OK enough for me to watch - and now I've had the anomalies etc listed, it'll be even more fun 8)
Can't recall the name now, but there was a decent [IIRC] BBC drama last year [?] about the ECW - focused on romance etc etc...
QuoteCan't recall the name now, but there was a decent [IIRC] BBC drama last year [?] about the ECW - focused on romance etc etc...
'The Devil's Whore'. Very good visually. Interesting story. Not for the history buff. If you want something more historically rewarding then get 'By the Sword Divided'.
Before anyone asks, I do watch historically based movies on my own. Because no one else can stand being in the same room as me. My sister tells everyone I completely ruined 'Braveheart' for her.
There was me thinking I enhanced it.
Quote'The Devil's Whore'.
That's the one...quite enjoyed it, as you say, for the storyline.
Quote'By the Sword Divided'.
Yes indeed...I remember watching that as a young 'un 8)
QuoteThere was me thinking I enhanced it.
;D
Just re-watched Cromwell, after many years of it sitting in my `to watch next` DVD collection.
Oh My God, what a load of dribble.... I was majorly disappointed. I remembered it as such a good film as a kid.
Okay, this now goes in my `most hated` pile.
hehe, the mistakes in it are appalling; almost as if Lucas made it on a bad day.
Now that series is one to look out for... I`ll do an Amazon search me thinks.
Steve :-)
re Cromwell: the celebrated prayer "Oh Lord, thou knowest how busy I must be this day. If I forget thee, do not thou forget me." was not uttered by Ollie either. Jacob Astley, wasn't it? A Royalist commander, at that.
I've just read all the posts in this thread and I definitely agree about 'Battle of the Bulge' and the Sharpe films. I just can't accept 3 ranks of 20 men pretending to be a French batallion. I always thought Zulu Dawn was a bit naff especially with the uniforms and weapons. Also Waterloo - in the British battle line where are the blue Belgians, green Nassau and black Brunswickers. Add to that all the French lancers wore Polish Guard uniforms. I mean if you have got to make the uniforms in the first place, try to do it correctly. ::)
Finally - thank god says everyone - a WW2 turkey. Wheels of Terror based on the Sven Hassell books. American actors pretending to be Germans, driving Russian assault guns masquerading as German tanks - horrendous 8)
Shaving Ryans Privates
Didn't seem to be anything to do with the sencond world war
Speaking as a cavalry re-enactor sharpe always reminds me of a small re-enactment event. Well apartfrom the explosions, that is.
NAff films oooooh
Patriot
Braveheart -aaaaargggggghhhhh! the bloke spoke Latin and appealed to the pope... he didnt wave his bottom and wear tartan! A mate of mine one met the historical advisor to the film.... Upon being asked why he even admitted it, his reason was... you should have seen it before I got hold of it!
Pearl harbour
Thats all I can think of off the top of my head
"PARRRRRLIAMENT!"
How about "Zulu Dawn" with Burt Lancaster and Bob 'Oskins.
For the AWI, Al Pacino in 'Revolution' was pretty bad.
'The Thin Red Line' was a bit of a turn off too.
The recent thing on Channel 4, 1066 - The Battle For Middle Earth. Absolutely shocking lack of historical depth. It could have been so, so, so much better.
Paschendaele - some bits are visually very good but the storyline is terrible and the overall effect is one of a huge missed opporunity.
Alexander Nevski - I've been trying to get hold of this for years and it was so disapointing :(
I really enjoy the Eisenstein. Astonishing what he brought off without one zoom shot! And the cutting of that muster of the peasants - if that disappointed you, you must set amazingly high standards.
Battle of the Bulge, Zulu Dawn and Sparticus get my votes. When there repeated on tv they get worse each time you watch them.
I thought Alexander Nevsky was very impressive for its time (though its blatantly propaganda). Here's an interesting comparison of the scratchy old soundtrack and the same scene with a more recent recording of Prokoviev's music.
I think a lot of old films would benefit from a musical facelift or even different soundtracks altogether.
Old
From about 5.30 onwards
Updated
My votes for biggest failures:
U-571 - total crap and bulls..t How could such a fine actors like Kretschmann and Keitel play in such a lie (and this John Bon Jovi killed me really :D )
The old Enemy Below movie with Robert Mitchum was thousands times better in every way possible
Battle of Ardennes with Henry Fonda - how could such a fine actor like Fonda play in ... oh, I repeat myself
QuoteHow could such a fine actors like Kretschmann and Keitel play in such a lie
Money?
I think the reason I didn't Like Nevsky more was expecting far more than was delivered.
I saw a newly cleaned copy and the nicely photographed bits were the famous scenes we see all the time, with most of the scenes failing to match the best and the acting letting the whole thing down.
Quote from: Leveller Mutineer on 28 May 2010, 09:09:45 AM
I'll buck the trend here and go for 'Cromwell'.
Well it does have the distinction of being the Rev. Ian Paisley's favourite film!
That was my first clue that it might have accuracy "issues"
Quote from: DanJ on 17 August 2010, 01:40:09 PM
Money?
Yes thats for sure, but its sad to see them doing it. Good films are rare and they would starve to death waiting for
the roles. ;)
Well U 571 is not only a bad movie: it is a shame ( Mel G is not playing a torpedo in the bonus ? ;D )
As an AWI fan Mel 's Patriot makes me sick: by the way I know now why the british troops had not any chance to win the war: Mel with his flag is such a tremendous picture BRRRRR. :d
I stumble on it a few months ago but the french movie Napoleon with Christian Clavier is wonderfully awful : this guy may be a 50 years old actor and it is very funny to see him on the bridge at Arcola ;D!! All the casting is a nightmare and the uniforms are a pity.
Ooh God where do i start?
Tobruck.
Bridge too far. (As vague as possible)
Windtalkers (Everything explodes into a fire ball)
We were men (Mel Gibson again), notice the recurring theme..
Troy
The 300, were did the Troll come from?
AND the elephants, AND the metal-masked men, AND ....
Quote from: The_Shootist on 19 August 2010, 12:59:28 PM
We were men (Mel Gibson again)
Umm, do you mean We Were Soldiers?
Quote
The 300, were did the Troll come from?
Well, 300 is the film of the comic book, and never pretended to be anything else. What did you expect?
I had the misfortune to see The Patriot for the first time this week. Oh dear. :o What a pile of steaming horse-droppings.
Cheers, Martyn
Quote from: Raider4 on 19 August 2010, 07:07:06 PM
Umm, do you mean We Were Soldiers?Well, 300 is the film of the comic book, and never pretended to be anything else. What did you expect?
I had the misfortune to see The Patriot for the first time this week. Oh dear. :o What a pile of steaming horse-droppings.
Cheers, Martyn
p we were soldiers, it was that good i forgot the title.
I expected some semblance of historical fact.
Y
I would have to say Mosquito Squadron and yes Braveheart
Yeah but Mosquito squadron had that fab music to run around to, arms outstretched and the occaisional hand over nose and mouth, shouting "Bandits, 12 'o clock high, break, break!" fllowed by "TAlly Ho!" Admitedly that was last Tuesday but hey! :-[