Hi,
Just toying with the idea of preparing the battle of Dorilea, during the first crusade (1098 more or less). Frankish army would have some units of their byzantine allies.
Could you recommend me the more popular/characteristic troops of byzantine?
And also I am very interested in the pendraken codes that could represent those kind of troops.
Have some ideas:
Armenian archers: not really bizantines, but lots of them were christians and they were famous, so why do not use them. --> pendraken figures= anglosaxon archers??
byzantine infantry
cataphracts. --> pendraken figure= maybe sasanid persian?? or some of the late roman range??
Any ideas are very welcome
I played Doryleum using Warmaster Ancients a year or so ago, the sides were just over 3000 points each (which is a big WMA game) and I gave the Byzantine contingent of the Crusaders 1 Leader, 1 Heavy Cavalry, 2 Light Cavalry, 4 Heavy Infantry and 2 Skirmish Infantry, this repressented about 20% of the Crusders in terms of points.
Unfortunately Pendraken don't do any late Byzantines but you might be able to use late Romans at a pinch. About the only thing you need to avoid is the bow armed clibanari as the Byzantine heavy cavalry had lost its bow by the late 11th century (very careles if you ask me).
Any chance of view some pics of the battle?
3000 WMA is a huge battle indeed. Which armylist do you use for the battle?
If you lead the byzantine armieside I guess you take the role of Taticio, a sarracene, son of a slave, and eager leader who earn the title of "Primokeros". Taticio has his nose chopped off as sign of his very first days when he was a slave. Also veteran of the balcans against the normands and also veteran of the raids agains the Pechenegros Turks.
Thanks for the info about the lost of the bow.
I just notice some odd things about the armylist of kingdom of Jerusalem. I posted here http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3896.0
@DanJ I will appreciate any comment about them
We played the game before the Medieval book came out and I wrote my own army lists based on my interpretations of the First Crusade.
CRUSADER ARMY
There is no overall commander of the Christian forces, each Prince, Duke or Lord jealously defending his prerogatives, especially the right to command of his own men.
VANGUARD
Bohemond of Taranto General 9 Cmd (Bohemond causes terror ) 150 pts
Stephen of Blois Leader 8 Cmd 80 pts
Robert of Flanders Sub-Leader 8 Cmd 40 pts
4 Units of Knights 440 pts
2 Unit Retainers (LC) 120 pts
2 Unit of Skirmish Cavalry 80 pts
6 Units of Spearmen 270 pts
3 Units of Archers 120 pts
4 Units of Pilgrims (2 Attacks,2 Hits & 0 Armour Save, 15pts each) 60 pts
Tatikios of Byzantium (Commander Byzantine contingent) Leader 8 Cmd 80 pts
1 Units of Kavalaroi Heavy Cavalry 110 pts
2 Unit of Light Kavalaroi Light Cavalry 120 pts
4 Units of Kontaratoi Heavy Infantry 240 pts
2 Unit of Psilio Skirmish Infantry 60 pts
"It's all Greek to me!" Special rule:~ Any Frankish commander attempting to command Byzantine troops suffers a -1 penalty and Tatikios sufferers a similar -1 penalty when attempting to order any Frankish troops.
STRAGGLERS
Baldwin of Boulogne Sub-Leader 8 Cmd 40 pts
2 Units of Spearmen 90 pts
4 Units of Camp followers (2 Attacks,2 Hits & 0 Armour Save, 15pts each) 60 pts
REARGUARD
Raymond of Toulouse General 9 Cmd (Blessing of the Legate) 135 pts
Robert of Normandy Sub-Leader 8 Cmd 40 pts
5 Units of Knights 550 pts
3 Units of Retainers (Light Cavalry) 180 pts
2 Unit of Skirmish Cavalry 80 pts
Godfrey of Bouillon Leader 8 Cmd 80 pts
4 Units of Spearmen 180 pts
3 Units of Archers 120 pts
ARMY TOTAL 3525 pts
Army Break Point
The Crusaders have 47 units which count towards their break point, the army will break after loosing 24.
SELJUK ORDERS
Right Flank
Emir Leader 8 Cmd 80 points
Bey Leader 8 Cmd 40 points
1 Unit Seljuk Heavy Cavalry 115 points
8 Units Turkoman Horse Archers 640 points
Centre
Sultan General 9 Cmd 125 points
Bey Sub Leader 8 Cmd 80 points
3 Units Seljuk Heavy Cavalry 345 points
8 Units Turkoman Horse Archers 640 points
Left Flank
Emir Leader 8 Cmd 80 points
Bey Sub Leader 8 Cmd 40 points
1 Unit Seljuk Heavy Cavalry 115 points
8 Units Turkoman Horse Archers 640 points
Shadowing Force
Bey Sub-Leader 8 Cmd 40 points
2 Units Turkoman Horse Archers 160 points
ARMY TOTAL 3,140 points
Army Break Notes
The Seljuk Light Cavalry is classed as Light Cavalry Horse Archers with a range of 30cm BUT they only have 30cm when shooting to their front using the Infantry Archer shooting arc. In all other circumstances e.g.shooting outside this arc, to their rear etc. they have a range of 15cm.
Seljuk Heavy Cavalry have a range of 15cm.
The Seljuks have 31 units which count towards their break point so the army will break after loosing 16
Here are a couple of pictures, unfortunately they're not Pendraken :(
Bohemond and his knights.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/BohemondandCo.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/BohemeondetlesGarcons3.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/danandsan/CrusaderssuprisetheSeljuks2.jpg)
wwwoww.
That images are quite astonishing. I like your list. Thank you very much for sharing. When my proyect of las Navas will be ended (do not know exactly when) then I will start expanding them to dorileum. Not willing to use yor list as It is a huge project (I used to paint both armies, so it is a lot of work for me).
As I see the seljuk forces are compose only for cavalry, interesting. I need to read a little more about the battle.
Also I like the idea of not having a general because it represent the circumstance in the first crusade. I did not consider this possibility.
thanks again :)