Hey all! I ordered my army a while ago, and I am hoping to get them in two weeks or so, but before that, I would like to ask some questions
1: how fragile are the figs, compared to let’s say, GW 28mm
2: along with my WHFB empire renaissance historical army, I ordered the dwarf starter army, and dwarf cannon, and 10 hobgoblins. Will said fantasy figs look right next the historicals (why I would order a handful of hobgoblins in the same breath as Dwarfs and historical? Why because This is my first miniature order in years, and my very first 10mm, and so I am aiming for diversity)
3: for someone who never really tried to paint, how hard should painting my army to a decent standard be? And what kind of paint should I use (this is the most important question. I realized today that I have 160 figures comeing in the mail and I don’t have the faintest idea on what to do when I get them. the number alone is a bit intimidating.
Thanks for all the advice. Expect to see my progress reports soon!
Generally the figures are pretty robust. While they are naturally thinner than 28mm figures they are smaller so are stronger. Long spears and lances can be a bit delicate.
The humans in the Fantasty ranges are a bit bigger than historicals, but not so much as to be unusable together. And as hare getting Dwarves and hobgoblins who is to say exactly how big they should be in proportion to each other.
Painting - don't go for too much detail, as it can get a bit messy. The figures respond well to strong highlights or shading. Whether you choose washes or dry brushing is up to you.
Oh and 160 10mm figures isn't too many...
thanks for the advice. any begginner 10mm turotials you can link me too. (sorry for my lack of creativity but I have litterally never painted any of my figs, I just have bought them already painted. I dont even know where to start. and that has to change if my quest to recreate the armies of WHFB with non GW 10mm is to succeed)
Quote from: KOVAV on 28 September 2011, 05:41:01 PM
1: how fragile are the figs, compared to let’s say, GW 28mm
Depends really. IF you say GW 28mm
metal fisg, well the GW stuff is very robust (except at the glued joints that pretty much need pinning to make them stable.
Pendraken 10mm figs are for the most part very robust. Plus being light, you can drop them from quite a height (or knock them off a table!) without fear of too much damage.
As with all ranges in all scales, the 'usual suspects' are a problem - ankles, spears, etc. Although i've found Pendraken to be largely free of these typical problems.
Quote2: along with my WHFB empire renaissance historical army, I ordered the dwarf starter army, and dwarf cannon, and 10 hobgoblins. Will said fantasy figs look right next the historicals
Yep, should be fine.
In fact there can be quite a bit of variation in Pendraken ranges given the vast amount they offer and the fact that they use (and have used) lots of different sculptors.
For the ranges you've ordered:
'Historical' is a bit wide ranging really so difficult to comment, but i've found them mostly well proportioned. I currently have (unpainted) a bunch of Roman cavalry which are quite 'robust' and some Saxon foot spearmen that seem a bit 'thin' by comparison. Not so much as to be a problem though.
The Dwarfs are actually quite massive! Not tall, but very squat, and heavy looking. 4 of them fill a 40x20mm base! They definately live up to their 'wide as they are short' fantasy stereotype!
I've not got any hobgoblins (i don't think), but have a lot of orcs and goblins and they fit very well with the historical figures i've got.
Quote3: for someone who never really tried to paint, how hard should painting my army to a decent standard be?
Not hard at all!! Its easier to get a good result at 10mm than at 28mm as (especially for gaming), you really don't need 'detail'. I find when painting i'm going for an overall 'colour effect'. To give you an idea, i've just finished painting up an 72AP HotT Orc army (which took a total of 4 hours + PVA drying time).
1. Black basecoat spray
2. Dab the green onto the skin areas (you can be quite spaldash here)
3. Boltgun metal brushed carefully on all the weapons, armour, metal etc.
4. Flat coats of various browns, tans, off-whites, and reds for the clothing, again fairly roughly dabbed on
5. 'Devlan mud' thinned inkwash across the whole lot (this blends everything together and hides the rough edges)
6. Table-ready figures done!
Simple. And at 3-4 ft distance (the average viewing distance for figures on a tabletop, they're perfectly fine.
QuoteAnd what kind of paint should I use (this is the most important question. I realized today that I have 160 figures comeing in the mail and I don’t have the faintest idea on what to do when I get them. the number alone is a bit intimidating.
Up to you really, but i use water-based acrylic paint, and almost exclusively GW paints. They're expensive for sure, but they have a good range on tones and shades that mean i don't need to mix paints (i hate doing that).
Oh and as
fred12df said 160 figures really isn't a lot in 10mm!!
doesn't sound too bad. would this set: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470005a&prodId=prod920008a
be good start?
I'd avoid that set to be honest - apart from being way overpriced, I'm not certain that the thick foundation paints will be very friendly to use if you're new to painting [& to 10mm]...the principle of block colour painting & then washing to bring out the detail is sound, but you'd do better to source cheaper water-based acrylics [even craft store paints will work fine]
If you like the GW range of colours, Vallejo Game Color pretty-much mirrors that range & is much cheaper plus comes in nice eye-dropper bottles which keep better.
For some basic tips, hints etc have a wander through the Painting & Modelling section here [especially the Painting Diaries area] - and some of my basic techniques are on my wiki - here:
http://nikharwood.pbworks.com/w/page/7825400/10mm%20Painting%20
Quote from: nikharwood on 28 September 2011, 10:06:09 PM
I'd avoid that set to be honest - apart from being way overpriced, I'm not certain that the thick foundation paints will be very friendly to use if you're new to painting [& to 10mm]...the principle of block colour painting & then washing to bring out the detail is sound, but you'd do better to source cheaper water-based acrylics [even craft store paints will work fine]If you like the GW range of colours, Vallejo Game Color pretty-much mirrors that range & is much cheaper plus comes in nice eye-dropper bottles which keep better.
For some basic tips, hints etc have a wander through the Painting & Modelling section here [especially the Painting Diaries area] - and some of my basic techniques are on my wiki - here:
http://nikharwood.pbworks.com/w/page/7825400/10mm%20Painting%20
REALLY!? awesome! no I am not partial to useing GW at all. I think I will probably be taking a trip to my local craft store. once I get better at painting, I may invest in Vallejo and GW. thanks for the tutorails. now viewing diaries
Quote from: KOVAV on 28 September 2011, 10:30:56 PM
REALLY!? awesome! no I am not partial to useing GW at all. I think I will probably be taking a trip to my local craft store. once I get better at painting, I may invest in Vallejo and GW. thanks for the tutorails. now viewing diaries
You can get your Vallejo paint right here at Pendraken matey
The dropper bottles are a bit a matter of personal taste. I prefer pots, but that's just me. The GW Foundation points are indeed quite thick but they do give excellent coverage, which is especially useful if you undercoat in black. If you take care, they work well on 10mm. I particularly like the flesh, stone, and red colors for a base coat.
The figures are robust, I've lost a couple at the ankles1, but a dab or superglue and they're fine. I've dropped units from table height with no adverse effects. :o There are loads of great painting tips around the forum (AndyMac and Nik have some of the best tips).
160 figures isn't too much, as long as you 'bulk paint', painting individulaly will send you spare!
Stick them on their bases or on coffee stirrers first, then paint in batches.
Whereas Coat D'arms have a great range, but some find them a bit watery at first, their inks are great! My paints are a mix of those (old) GW and Vallejo. Also, you can't beat Windsor & Newton Calligraphy ink at 50/50 dilution! :D
Good luck!
Mad Lemmey
next pendraken order I make will include some vellejo. thanks for advice. so, by mass painting, you mean get large swathes of charecters one stage at a time? like I give ALL my guys an undercoat and then go on to the next stage, with all my guys, right?
That's about the picture sir!
I find that painting 1 or 2 units at a time works best, as a balance between production line speed and getting bored doing the same thing again and again. A unit for me is typical 30 infantry or 9-12 cavalry.
I would recommend hobby paints to start with, they have better coverage than craft paints. Vallejo are nice paints, GW are OK but expensive. Generally GW is readily available, and Vallejo needs mail ordeing.
Welcome to the true wargame scale - every thing bigger is skirmish, any thing smaller is pointless! :d
The most important thing about Pendraken (and a number of us can't stress this enough) is DON'T LOOK AT ANY OF THE FIGURES PAINTED BY NIK, or you will just want to curl up in a corner and cry! :'( (Ferchrissakes Nik - painting individual fingers is showing off)
1st - File the bottom of the bases. Pendraken are very good for how little flash their is on the figures, but obviously there has to be a clipping point, and this seems to be underneath. Given they are effectively N gauge - 2mm =1 foot even a little ridge is relatively huge. Horses may well have a thin (wire thickness) vent from ground to belly and/or tail. You may want to file/clip the sides of the base if basing is going to be a squeeze
My personal preference is grey spray undercoat, though If I can be bothered/remember I do black then grey (light coats) This is because I find black eats the light, and detail can be hard to see, white is exactly the opposite. Grey brings out the sculpting. If you have a magnifier (2x) you will surprised at the detail.
I buy packs of self adhesive vinyl floor tiles - 30cm square ones. Cut a strip off 1-2 cm wide and stick the figures on this for undercoating and painting - when you spray it leaves black spots where the figures were, which retain their stickiness for the whole painting process.
As others have said - organise into units and do whole units in one go - of course this depends on unit size - if you have units of 12 infantry, you may want to do 4 units at a go. I am doing 36 man battalions, and I reckon 30-45 minutes per colour or item (this includes pick up and putting them down, watching the telly etc). I have all the officers/drummers/etc in non-standard uniforms at the end - the change as a sort of reward - after painting 30 identical men the variation breaks the monotony!
I do a lot of the main areas with nothing smaller than a Citadel 'normal' brush, with a fine for belts and lace. You'll be surprised how quick someof it is - torsos seem to take a bit longer, there tends to be a bit more detail there, but legs you'll take 2 or three strokes. I use mainly GW paints, because the store is only a mile away, and in extremis I can give the money to the kids when they go. I also use cheap artists acrylic, though you will want to add a drop of water, and keep the brush a bit wetter than normal because they are thicker.
I like the foundation paints - its the only red and yellow that covers first time. The Knarloc Green is also spot on for Musket wielding Russians.
I usually do - Jacket - Trousers - flesh - hats - shoes and other black leather work - other accoutroments - weapon - base. Sometimes I will do a (wooden therefore brown) weapon first, going over the hands AND face, then do the flesh a dry(ish) brush. If you are comfortable doing washes then this works well. I prefer Pendraken to OG for the reasons people give for liking OG - Pendraken are individual casts - this means you can get everywhere with a brush, and hold it at an angle that suits you.
I base on the floor tiles. I put green hobby paper on the sticky side, then cut to size. Though not as square as commercial bases, such as the Pendraken ones they are extremely thin, and also don't warp with waterbased paints or glue. It also means I always have the right size just a few cuts away, without having to wait for the post. I mix PVA with green paint, and spread on the paper side. I then put a dab of superglue on the bottom of the figure and place on the tile. Once all the figures are on I push it into flock, ensure it is all covered then leave 24 hours to dry. I shake off the excess, then varnish the whole base - figures and flock. Though many count on 5 in 40mm, I get 3 on 20mm frontage, 6 on 40mm
Like others say, 160 isn't that many 10mm to paint. Obviously it depends on how much you like painting and how often you can do it. A friend has the utility room in his house where he can leave stuff out, so he can always put in an odd 30 minutes when waiting for his wife! My best is 3 battalions = 108 figures in 48 hours.
Here are mine at the '3 foot standard'
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5183309116_015bde9f92.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/5183309116/)
Austro-Prussian 019 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/5183309116/) by Last Hussar (http://www.flickr.com/people/lasthussar/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/5182698325_9d39f9c149.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/5182698325/)
Flank view (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/5182698325/) by Last Hussar (http://www.flickr.com/people/lasthussar/), on Flickr
The nice thing about 10mm is you can go that bit further this is my C in C
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/5183302446_5ece652da6.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/5183302446/)
Austro-Prussian 005 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lasthussar/5183302446/) by Last Hussar (http://www.flickr.com/people/lasthussar/), on Flickr
That was effectively about £6 in total (though some figures are spares)- how much would a 28mm carriage cost!
Quote from: fred12df on 30 September 2011, 07:54:05 PM
I find that painting 1 or 2 units at a time works best, as a balance between production line speed and getting bored doing the same thing again and again. A unit for me is typical 30 infantry or 9-12 cavalry.
I would recommend hobby paints to start with, they have better coverage than craft paints. Vallejo are nice paints, GW are OK but expensive. Generally GW is readily available, and Vallejo needs mail ordeing.
I agree. Paint a few units at a time; it's good for your morale to see a few completed regiments while progressing with the next batch. But I always keep a lot of horses available, since there's often some left-over pigment which can be turned into a brown and sloshed onto the gee-gees. Saves time and avoids waste; and after thirty-something years as a wargamer, I've painted so many horses that it's a chore now, so any short cuts are useful.
Hi KOVAV.
So many good basic advices from those familiar with 10mm-Pendraken, so I don't have to add something worth of notice.
But I want to assure you: I'm in a similar situation as you mentioned. After spending a couple of years with 28mm figures (by chance also from GW), now I'm impatiently awaiting the arrival of my very first 10mm-Pendraken. I wanted to try some smaller figures and was quiet undecided, whether it should be 6mm or 10mm.
So I ordered both, and we will see, which scale will impress me the most. (the 6mm guys already arrived, and I think the painting is a bit...challenging, but in general, I think, i's an interesting range)
I hope, that the Pendraken's will present themselves as an optimal compromise between "beeing small" (means: you can afford legions of them and they will only occupy a small space, either on the table as in the cupboard) and giving you the possibility to display a desired minimum of detail...
And now we can lean back and enjoy the freedom, of not having to care about "button colour", "positioning of pockets" or special "Drummer's lace"... (you can replace this with any kind of important uniform/appearance-detail, depending on the time, you are interested in).
But what made me anwer most of all: I felt, that I heard before the words in your signature... after some acoustic investigation: It's "Sons of Odin" from Manowar
Now I'm assured: you are one of the good guys. :d
With very kind regards
Alarich
Quote from: Last Hussar on 01 October 2011, 12:52:29 AM
The most important thing about Pendraken (and a number of us can't stress this enough) is DON'T LOOK AT ANY OF THE FIGURES PAINTED BY NIK, or you will just want to curl up in a corner and cry! :'( (Ferchrissakes Nik - painting individual fingers is showing off)
:D
Yeah, he sets the standard the rest of us just get jealous about!
Quote from: Last Hussar on 01 October 2011, 12:52:29 AM
1st - File the bottom of the bases. Pendraken are very good for how little flash their is on the figures, but obviously there has to be a clipping point, and this seems to be underneath. Given they are effectively N gauge - 2mm =1 foot even a little ridge is relatively huge. Horses may well have a thin (wire thickness) vent from ground to belly and/or tail. You may want to file/clip the sides of the base if basing is going to be a squeeze
Yep. Pendraken figures are some of the most flash-free figures i've ever bought. This wins.
Funnily eough last night i cleaned, mounted and undercoated 60 Roman horsemen. All the spears needed straightening (understandably). Aside from a light file down on the underside of the bases (which i do anyway to 'rough up' the surface for glueing), there was only a single piece of flash that needed clipping off the end of one spear. Amazing! :D
I HATE deflashing figures so this makes me a happy Panda... :)
Quote from: KOVAV on 30 September 2011, 05:20:04 PM
thanks for advice.
Well, you've been amply served by some of our top painters. Do read their tutorials carefully, it's important to get things right - the order in which you paint stuff etcetera. And Nik's advice to maintain a "painting diary" for instance has been a big help to me.
Good luck, I hope to see some of your results soon!
Cheers,
Aart
I could not ask for more and better advice. I will be following the step by step instructions to the very best of my ability (not that good, but, wth, its the best can do). you guys will be seeing my proegress reports as soon as I get the minitures (why is it that all the best minies are from the UK? if I werent such an AMERICA IZ DA BEZT! RAWR kind of guy at heart, I would move across the pond to make my hobbies a bit more conveniant.) And Alarich; yes, yes that is Sons of Odin, my favorite Man-O-War song, and definately one of my favorite songs overall. for someone who's fammily is filled with both Asatru and service in the millitary, It has particularly deep meaning to me. and, its freaking badass.
If I could add a quick note...when it comes to buying paint dont worry about buying litle tubs of black and white as you will use loads of it...Go to an art shop and buy a big tube of black and white acrylic its a lot cheaper in the long run
Quote from: Aart Brouwer on 01 October 2011, 12:51:51 PM
Well, you've been amply served by some of our top painters.
and me.
Quoteif I werent such an AMERICA IZ DA BEZT! RAWR
You can be more relaxed here - this isn't TMP. If these boards were anything real, they would be a pub- the kind with regulars and a landlord who knows them all and what they drink.
Quote from: Last Hussar on 01 October 2011, 11:46:47 PM
You can be more relaxed here - this isn't TMP. If these boards were anything real, they would be a pub- the kind with regulars and a landlord who knows them all and what they drink.
Well said, Captain. m/
Cheers,
Aart
Quote from: Last Hussar on 01 October 2011, 11:46:47 PM
You can be more relaxed here - this isn't TMP. If these boards were anything real, they would be a pub- the kind with regulars and a landlord who knows them all and what they drink.
:D :-bd
Agreed. While an undergrad, one of my 3 jobs was as a barkeeper in such a pub. This forum is indeed like that, only with less cigar smoke.
Its worth considering that this forum is astonishingly troll-free. Perhaps an indication that its
mature* gamers who eventually come to the wonderful world of 10mm, after long years of slavery to the tyranny of 28's?
*For 'mature', read 'i have to take my glasses off to paint these little buggers'...
Quote from: Luddite on 02 October 2011, 09:45:39 AM
*For 'mature', read 'i have to take my glasses off to paint these little buggers'...
=O
Quote from: Luddite on 02 October 2011, 09:45:39 AM
Perhaps an indication that its mature* gamers who eventually come to the wonderful world of 10mm, i]
We have a "top totty" board, and we're the mature ones? :-\
Quote from: Last Hussar on 02 October 2011, 11:12:02 PM
We have a "top totty" board, and we're the mature ones? :-\
I like to think that with a mature readership like ourselves it's more artistic appreciation than the pure ogling and lust you might encounter in a younger readership...
:^o
Yeah, who am I kidding!
@-) =P~
Quote from: O Dinas Powys on 03 October 2011, 06:55:16 PM
I like to think that with a mature readership like ourselves it's more artistic appreciation than the pure ogling and lust you might encounter in a younger readership...
:^o
;D ;D ;D ;D
I'll have what ever you're drinking!
Quote from: Last Hussar on 01 October 2011, 11:46:47 PM
If these boards were anything real, they would be a pub- the kind with regulars and a landlord who knows them all and what they drink.
Very nicely put! :-bd
Quote from: Last Hussar on 01 October 2011, 11:46:47 PM
You can be more relaxed here - this isn't TMP. If these boards were anything real, they would be a pub- the kind with regulars and a landlord who knows them all and what they drink.
And topless waitresses?
Quote from: FierceKitty on 04 October 2011, 07:00:31 AM
And topless waitresses?
Where did ya put yer glasses again, eh? :P
Cheers,
Aart
My preference is for a white primer (white car spray works perfectly).
I find that with 10mm figs the colour areas are quite small and a white primer helps the topcolours come through, especially the reds and yellows. If they look too garish I tone down with a light wash.
Probably the most impotant thhing with 10mm figs is that you're going for mass effect not individual perfection (unless you're Nik).
Fierce Kitty - Where the hell are you drinking?
If I reveal the location, I'll draw in a crowd of voyeurs all competing for my favourite seat!
There was a pub near M'bro bus station back in the early 80's that had topless waitresses for a while, can't remember the name but I'm sure Dave can ;)
Quote from: Sandinista on 11 October 2011, 04:11:03 PM
There was a pub near M'bro bus station back in the early 80's that had topless waitresses for a while, can't remember the name but I'm sure Dave can ;)
He says it was called 'Norma Jeans'?! He insists he went in by accident once... :-\
I used to frequent a place in Wakefield in the 80s, it was called "Hepe's Fish and Strip", oh-errr-missus, I wonder what went on at the back of the chip shop? ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: GordonY on 11 October 2011, 06:11:13 PM
...it was called "Hepe's Fish and Strip"...
Slightly better than 'Herpe's Fish and Strip'... :P
Guess what the price of admission was?
Gordon
Quote from: GordonY on 11 October 2011, 07:18:52 PM
Guess what the price of admission was?
Wakefield in the 80's? If you were wearing your own shoes, probably free... :D
A fish supper, and there was a bin to ditch it in just past the beaded curtain, of course the only reason for going there was the bar was open until 2am. :P
:)
Actually, I've been to a totally nude bar; this inclluded customers. Ah, I miss you, Moravia!
Quote from: FierceKitty on 15 October 2011, 01:26:59 AM
Actually, I've been to a totally nude bar; this inclluded customers. Ah, I miss you, Moravia!
How disgusting. I mean, it soudns like the perfect way to lose your appetite and spoil an evening. Unless it was a cheerleader's drinking hole of course..
Cheers,
Aart
You need to Czech out a few Moravian women.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 15 October 2011, 07:53:58 AM
You need to Czech out a few Moravian women.
I get the picture (I've got similar ones stashed at the back of my skull).
Cheers,
Aart
Wargamers as patrons. That's all I'm saying. :-&